slutty paypal issue

[amishsixstringe]

Ok, I'm only putting this in this forum because you guys are smarter than my real life friends.

This happened to my paypal account:

Someone in Europe (I'm in the USA) sent me a sum of money without me asking for it. This person did this 6 times in 20 minutes, all with different (but small) amounts. This person then put a reversal on all of the transactions. This ALL occurred in about 30 minutes time while I was NOT online knowing it was happening.

The result is a negative balance on my account. I called paypal over 10 times now and have filed claims of fraud which have been denied. Paypal wants me to pay the negative balance I have on my account or they will send it to a collection agency.

Not only do I not know what happened to the account, but now they want ME to pay for something I had NOTHING to do with. How can I fix this?

Thanks guys,

Neil

[Dean Roddey]

How can there be a negative balance? There would have to be a record of all in and out activity in your PayPal account. The person who paid and then cancelled shouldn't have been able to create a negative balance. Do you see both the payments and the cancellations? If so, then there shoudln't even be anything to discuss with Paypal, because their own data shows what happened. Unless you withdrew the amount while it was still there.

[GuitarGuy551]

Paypal is essentially a bank. When you pay somebody via Paypal, the money isn't sent from you to the recipient, but is held by Paypal in order to gain interest. Paypal, in turn, pays the recipient with somebody else's money. From what I understand, money cannot be taken from your account without your consent. PERIOD. I would fight it over the phone until you speak with somebody in upper-management.

I have had major difficulties with Paypal myself. I purchased a $2000 guitar amp and used Paypal as a means of payment. Needless to say, their website had a glitch and it took that $2000 out of my account six times ($12,000). They refused to instantly refund me and told me I would have to wait 1-2 weeks for a refund. They forgot to mention I could go to my bank and stop payment. They really are shady people, but all of us Slutz are so blinded by gear lust we forget.

[amishsixstringe]

I think that the negative interest is from the currency conversion somehow. The last time I logged into my account was June 2009. The ONLY reason I logged in was because I received an email from paypal that my account was negative and I needed to pay them.

I have talked to them on the phone many times. They won't even help me figure out what happened to the account. They just tell me that I need to pay it and pretty much hang up on me. They even had the nerve to send me an email asking how their phone service was after all of this.

I've had issues with paypal in the past as well. I'd love to cut all ties with them, but...eBay won't allow that.

Neil

[Dean Roddey]

Jeez, how could any money have even been moved in 30 minutes, and how much could the interest rate have changed in that time? That doesn't make sense either.

[GuitarGuy551]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

I think that the negative interest is from the currency conversion somehow.

Neil

That could very well be the case. Currency exchange rates change every minute. Is the amount money they say you owe substantial? If not, I would just pay them and save yourself the headache. You should by no means have to pay anything, but stuff like this happens all the time. I know we shouldn't give into "The Man", but it is like an argument with a girlfriend/wife. Sometimes it is easier to cut your losses and play dead than to deal with the hassle of arguing.

Best of luck.

[amishsixstringe]

The problem is that I have no clue and neither does paypal, but they won't try to work with me at all. They just want me to pay.

Wish there was something I could do...eerrr

Neil

[amishsixstringe]

If they could tell me "Oh, you spent the money on this: x" I would at least give in, but they can't tell me where the money came from or where it went.

Neil

[lagavulin16]

Let's talk numbers - how much was put in, how much was withdrawn, and how much of a negative balance do you owe?

Paypal makes money on the conversion just like everyone else. So it would make sense, let's say 10 pounds equals 20 dollars.

They put 10 pounds in, and it converts as 19 dollars (they keep the commission).

They reverse the transfers, and paypal gives them back 10 pounds (the full amount) only now they're yanking another dollar... this would leave you with a -2 balance and the guy with his original 10 pounds.

Highly simplistic, but is that basically what happened?

[Jay Lee]

Sounds a little weird considering that no one can just put money to your paypal account. When someone sends you 10 bucks, paypal asks do you accept, if you never accept, the money has not been on your account, so there should be no charges to you... The currency charges should all go from the senders account.

[FireMoon]

Paypal is riddled with security holes, very few of which they will ever openly admit to.

[amishsixstringe]

Here you go. I did NOT accept any of the money that was 'sent' to me. How could I? There was only 30 minutes between the time it was sent to me and the time was reversed for each of the 6 transactions. During this time I was NOT logged into my account.



This left me with a -51.80 balance.

Neil

[drbob1]

It is a little weird. It wouldn't be a problem with Paypal fees, though, they cancel those on a cancelled transaction, too. The problem would be with the currency exchange, usually each exchange encurs a 4% cost, or therabouts. So, 6 exchanges could potentially result in a nearly 50% penalty, Ouch! I wonder if someone with a bank has found a way to make some extra money? And yeah, someone can pay you and deposit the money in your account without permission if you're a preferred member. I don't know how they can "cancel" the transaction and take the money out without permission though. Is it possible your paypal account has been compromised? Again, how much money are we talking here?

[lobsty]

Paypal is an evil blight on the internet.
Avoid it at all costs I say! Too late now I know, but it's typical of the kinda crap they pull...

[You_Father_Sky]

Yeah I find it ridiculous that paypal is the only "secure" form of money transfer and online purchasing available.

They have an 800 number, but they don't f'n post it, you have to find it online, because they want my money to call them? Right.

Everytime you call them, you speak to some wad who can barely speak English, and has little to no understanding, or concern for what's going on.

A few months ago I made a purchase and it came out of my chequing account which never has any money in it, because I buy everything on visa and keep my money in investment accounts. Needless to say I saw the $50 NSF fee from my bank and flipped. I called paypal, and had the lady on the phone switch my preferences so when I make a payment it would come off my visa instead by default. She said she had taken care of it, and I was all set. A month later and I go to make another purchase and the same thing happens, I get more NSF fees, two actually, my bank reversed one thankfully and I called Paypal once again, and guess what? Yup some moron who knows nothing and after complaining for like an hour I got to management... Oh wait, it's just another poorly spoken idiot who explains to me that when you go to pay with paypal you can choose to select your visa instead of bank account... OH GEE THANKS. Why didn't the lady tell me that last time?!

I'd be more than happy to make the selection myself if I weren't too stupid to assume it was taken care of. They refused to cover the NSF cost for their mistake. They can say "well you can just select your payement, it's your fault" Yes,yes it is. But this wouldn't have happened if they lady told me that to begin with. What makes it worse is she SAID "I've taken care of that for you, is there anything else I can help you with"

Well I trot along assuming that next time I buy something it's set to come from my visa by default. Never, EVER, trust a PP call centre agent.

[lobsty]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

A few months ago I made a purchase and it came out of my chequing account which never has any money in it, because I buy everything on visa and keep my money in investment accounts. Needless to say I saw the $50 NSF fee from my bank and flipped. I called paypal, and had the lady on the phone switch my preferences so when I make a payment it would come off my visa instead by default. She said she had taken care of it, and I was all set. A month later and I go to make another purchase and the same thing happens, I get more NSF fees, two actually, my bank reversed one thankfully and I called Paypal once again, and guess what? Yup some moron who knows nothing and after complaining for like an hour I got to management... Oh wait, it's just another poorly spoken idiot who explains to me that when you go to pay with paypal you can choose to select your visa instead of bank account... OH GEE THANKS. Why didn't the lady tell me that last time?!

I'd be more than happy to make the selection myself if I weren't too stupid to assume it was taken care of. They refused to cover the NSF cost for their mistake. They can say "well you can just select your payement, it's your fault" Yes,yes it is. But this wouldn't have happened if they lady told me that to begin with. What makes it worse is she SAID "I've taken care of that for you, is there anything else I can help you with"

Well I trot along assuming that next time I buy something it's set to come from my visa by default. Never, EVER, trust a PP call centre agent.

The defaulting to a cheque or statement account is a typical paypal scam - it happens to me all the time. When I set it to credit card it says that I can't use a credit card for this particular purchase "for security reasons" and it does this EVERY time. When I talk to some idiot at paypal the idiot always says it's for my own security. This of course is ludicrous because credit card fraud is much easier to reverse than bank account fraud.

My solution - I never use paypal anymore!

[You_Father_Sky]

Well how do you purchase online?

[lobsty]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

Well how do you purchase online?

Either with directly with a credit card or I don't bother.
Screw these bastards that try and have a monopoly but can't deliver a half decent service.

[Barfunkel]

I've always wondered why Paypal has no competition. Everybody hates it but it seems to have a monopoly.

There are companies like Neteller or Moneybookers that offer similar services, but I've never heard of anyone outside the online gambling community using them.

[gregory]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

A few months ago I made a purchase and it came out of my chequing account which never has any money in it, because I buy everything on visa and keep my money in investment accounts. Needless to say I saw the $50 NSF fee from my bank and flipped. I called paypal, and had the lady on the phone switch my preferences so when I make a payment it would come off my visa instead by default. She said she had taken care of it, and I was all set. A month later and I go to make another purchase and the same thing happens, I get more NSF fees, two actually, my bank reversed one thankfully and I called Paypal once again, and guess what? Yup some moron who knows nothing and after complaining for like an hour I got to management... Oh wait, it's just another poorly spoken idiot who explains to me that when you go to pay with paypal you can choose to select your visa instead of bank account... OH GEE THANKS. Why didn't the lady tell me that last time?!

I have had a payment drawn from my bank acount when I KNOW I had selected a credit card for payment. So the bank honors it even though there is nsf, and this of course generates a nsf fee. The reason I keep the account low is to insulate myself from paypal. Bank says it's doing me a favor by honoring nsf payments, I say to them don't do me any favors @ $29 per "favor". I further say the purpose of a bank is to protect my money, not give it to anyone who asks. response - sorry that's the way it works. Bottom line is all policies are engineered to increase fee revenue. And I truly believe based on my own experience that paypal purposely debits bank accounts irregardless of your instructions in order to circumvent credit card merchant fees.

[You_Father_Sky]

Yeah it's a little ridiculous. I may just stop using them. I really shakes my confidence. I mean if they pull this crap how could I expect them to protect me if I get ripped off?

[lobsty]

Originally Posted by You_Father_Sky

I mean if they pull this crap how could I expect them to protect me if I get ripped off?

Bingo.

[amishsixstringe]

Well, today they denied my claim again. They still won't tell me what happened to the account. They said I have 3 days to pay them before it gets sold to a collection agency. There seems to be nothing I can do. It's like trying to call the cops on a cop. They can pretty much say "You need to pay me money or you're screwed." and you have to.

Looks like I have to give in and pay it. This is bs.

Neil

[You_Father_Sky]

I would still advise against it. All a collection agency can do is harass you. I would fight it if at all possible. Some stranger out of nowhere costs you money and they are going to send it to collections? Alright, explain to me how that would fly in any court.

There has to be a way to get this crap reversed.

[Bluzzi]

Do you have "small claims court" in the U.S.? If so take them to court. Worst case is you will pay the $50 or so they say you owe. Best part is they would have to send a Lawyer. Of course they would never do that for that small amount and so I bet you will get a settlement to reduce the bill to $0.

In Montreal we can do that. I've used it and I have been a witness for a customer of mine that was accused of not paying a $1500.00 bill to a web designer. He ended up paying $750.00. But that is here in Montreal where we can use small claims (up to $6,000) without having to go to a lawyer.

Up here for small amounts, we write our own "Without Prejudice" letters and send them registered mail. I am not sure what the law says you can or cannot do in the U.S. when it comes to this kind of argument between 2 parties.

Maybe you should call a law firm and ask them to refer you to a lawyer that does Pro-bono work. You may be able to get some free advise at least.

In any case good luck. At least its under $100 so its not a heart attack amount!

Jim

[lobsty]

Do you have a financial or banking Ombudsman in the US? IF so, head there it's free and they'll take care of it if they think your claim is legitimate (and it sounds like it is for sure)

[frans]

too late, but you should have known:
PayPalSucks.Org, Home of the PayPalSucks.Org Cartoons & critical commentary on PayPal.com
PayPalSucks! Find an alternative that works!
Trademark Infringement by nopaypal.com and paypalsucks.com -- Chilling Effects Clearinghouse

In short: fight back. The book says there are laws against theft. Real life doesn't work like the book everyday, but...

NEVER give them your credit card information, NEVER. If you did, delete it from your account. ALWAYS check your credit card info for unknown debits.

[natpub]

Call and/or email the Clark Howard Show. Seriously, this is right up their alley, and would make a good show topic. I would otherwise go to a similar financial/investigative media outlet. You may need to pay it in the meantime during dispute in order to avoid damage to your credit rating.

[swafford]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

Well, today they denied my claim again. They still won't tell me what happened to the account. They said I have 3 days to pay them before it gets sold to a collection agency. There seems to be nothing I can do. It's like trying to call the cops on a cop. They can pretty much say "You need to pay me money or you're screwed." and you have to.

Looks like I have to give in and pay it. This is bs.

Neil

Pay the $50 to avoid it going to collections and receiving a mark against you on your credit score. Make copies of all transactions and correspondence. Investigate what needs to be done to recoup your $50 - small claims, contact your local lawyer referral service, etc.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by FireMoon

Paypal is riddled with security holes, very few of which they will ever openly admit to.

No system is completely fool proof other than paying cash in person (which is not possible in all situations)
I have MasterCard and Visa merchant accounts and I could write a book on all the scams I have seen. Unfortunately when there is money involved there are always people who are dishonest around the corner. I had a music dealer charge the wrong CC on on me. When they refunded my CC I was not refunded the difference in foreign currency exchange rates between purchases and refunds. YES Banks and financial services companies are evil but that's because the gov't does not NOT regulate them.
Complain and protest to the government to get them to change the rules.