To avantone (mixcubes) or not?

[adpz]

I currently work on Yamaha HSM80's. I am really wondering how much of a speed or accuracy difference (with regards to working in the mids) it might make to have an alternative speaker such as the Mixcubes, or even just one in mono. Objectively, I understand the purpose of the old Auratones, but the Mixcube looks like a more full-range monitor anyway.

Any perspectives anyone?

[dambro2]

get them. Mixes starting taking a fraction as long once I got them, about 2-3 years ago.

[You_Father_Sky]

Agreed, got my passive ones last month and they're great for referencing the mixes I do on my Tannoys.

[reddirt]

They need substantial running in to take the "quack" out of the mids but once done they are a VG tool - not hi-fi by any means but a mid range revealer and totally valid, different POV to your mains.
Cheers, Ross

[Davey_R_2_D_2]

Originally Posted by adpz

I currently work on Yamaha HSM80's. I am really wondering how much of a speed or accuracy difference (with regards to working in the mids) it might make to have an alternative speaker such as the Mixcubes, or even just one in mono. Objectively, I understand the purpose of the old Auratones, but the Mixcube looks like a more full-range monitor anyway.

Any perspectives anyone?

I have used Auratones for ages, I tried and hated the mixcubes...... They sounded weird to be,I couldnt trust them.... HORRORTONES all the way for me.
IMHO.

[quantumpsych]

i have 8" based nearfields, like you, and its pretty obvious the mid-range could be faster for lack of a better term. was thinking about getting the hs50m or making my own mono near-field from a full range 3" speaker. would that be a better approximation for the human voice than a 5"? dunno, but i love the number three.

[adpz]

Sounds like people have very good feedback on using a mid-range speaker in general. I am impressed . . .

[Animus]

I just got a pair of passives and I am a believer. They are awesome. At first I was like "these sound horrible". They sounded all harsh. Then I threw up some reference cds I like and the music sounded smooth and great. So I readjusted my mix to make it sound good on the Mixcubes and that did the trick. I think they are great because they mask the full range of lows and highs which mislead/distract you where it counts.

[Jack Ruston]

The mono Avantone is a very useful tool. I wouldn't be without it.

J

[Den]

Originally Posted by adpz

Sounds like people have very good feedback on using a mid-range speaker in general. I am impressed . . .

Yes I agree.
Last 20 years I used Auraton speakers in almost every serious studio in Istanbul. These days I just received my new Avantone Active speakers and I am very satisfied finally after looking to buy old ones last few years...
Reference speakers for mix in the best light since they were Auraton.
After unpacking and making connection , my first impression was not at the
maximum. But after reading a owners manual I realised that they need to be played for at least 24 hours to 72 hours. Ohh I see.. After that period of "burning in" they have the same sound like the old ones. I am happy now.
Good Pro Mixing Tool again.

[jaguarsg]

+1 for the passives!

[china jam]

Originally Posted by Jack Ruston

The mono Avantone is a very useful tool. I wouldn't be without it.

J

Agreed..and separated at birth no less!

[beingmf]

Originally Posted by dambro2

get them. Mixes starting taking a fraction as long once I got them, about 2-3 years ago.

Really? Are you able to START a mix on the Aura's? Every time I had this idea, it sounded like *youknowhat* on the other monitors. For me, they are unrivaled for ear-breaks. Like when you've just fixed the bass sound for 20 minutes on the mains, and now you switch back to un-solo'd...

[u b k]

Originally Posted by beingmf

Really? Are you able to START a mix on the Aura's? Every time I had this idea, it sounded like *youknowhat* on the other monitors.

The question is, do you balance the mids and eq the ends, or do you balance one end and eq the mids and the other end? The former approach results in the least distrubance to the freqs we're most sensitive to.

I go back and forth constantly between mains and smalls, getting things as tight as possible with just faders and compression. I eq only to lessen the disparity between the three systems.

I actually work with different 'small' refs now, because consumer systems no longer tend to be 800-3k focused, they tend to be 3k-8k focused. Laptops, computer speakers, boom boxes, 'bose' style home stereos... things have changed since the 70's.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[dubrichie]

ubk,

so come on man, what smalls are you using?

[Barish]

Originally Posted by Jack Ruston

The mono Avantone is a very useful tool. I wouldn't be without it.

J

Yep.

B.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by dubrichie

so come on man, what smalls are you using?

They're my own design. I went thru 37 different drivers at the end of last year, and am now looking into who's gonna make the enclosure for me.

If I can nail the manufacturing, they'll be under $100 a pair and if I get my way they'll look like 70's space orbs. They're friggin' amazing.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Silver Sonya]

This thing is boss as a secondary or tertiary ref.

- c

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by u b k

If I can nail the manufacturing, they'll be under $100 a pair and if I get my way they'll look like 70's space orbs. They're friggin' amazing.

Space orbs!!? Sign me up!

[livelearnplay]

Yes,I am also using mono Avantone for most of my mixes. It's one of the essential tools that I have.

[dubrichie]

Originally Posted by u b k

They're my own design. I went thru 37 different drivers at the end of last year, and am now looking into who's gonna make the enclosure for me.

If I can nail the manufacturing, they'll be under $100 a pair and if I get my way they'll look like 70's space orbs. They're friggin' amazing.


Gregory Scott - ubk

SOLD!

[greatgreatriver]

anyone tried the active mixcubes with a sub?

[Markus Stock]

I am loving mine here to death. They are great for leveling in the vocals and checking midrange build up and how your kik and bass are in relation. Couldn't live...well....mix without them.

[duvalle]

i have the active mixcubes (new version without the old hum problem).
imho they are great and work very well with my adam p11a + sub10.

[rainsinvelvet]

We have a pair of Auratones at the studio. but like UBK I found something that seemed to be more relevant for todays "real world" situations.
I use little, cheap Dell powered speakers that used to come with the computers They cost like $30, but man between those and my mains the mixes leave me with little to guess..

of course YMMV, but thought I'd chime in on what works for me. I think I'd buy a cheap boom box with AUX inputs before I bought Auratones or whatever..

ERic

[Jimbo]

There seems to be two theories going on here.

1. Auro/Avantones are good for referencing mixes for bad playback systems.
2. Auro/Avantones are good for sorting out the midrange of a mix.

Most of the posts have referred to the second, but UBK's address the first.

So.....UBK, are your new monitors good for both 1 & 2 (above)?

Thanks.

[evangelista]

Avantones have a wider frequency response than Auratones. When working with Avantones, I find I still need to go to an even crappier system (often an iHome) to feel confident about the mix.

So, in that sense, they're not an Auratone replacement; rather, a part of a new system tailored for our times.

[dkelley]

I actually switch between several sets of speakers during mixing - my mains are vintage infinity hifi speakers with 2" dome mids, ribbon/planar tweeters and 8" woofs (with after market woofer drivers that I chose and installed which offer a different response from the original woofers which I actually prefer to the originals for the studio) in a sealed box plus a powered sub. My current main mixing nearfields are another frankenstein home built pair, this time based upon jbl 6.5" woofers with a first order crossover to a 3/4" vifa tweeter.

But for full range single driver speakers I don't currently have Aura/Avantones (although I have used and like both) but am getting great results from a pair of yamaha surround speakers that are single 5" (approximately) based. They aren't your average full range single driver speakers - they're really quite good, lots of mids, no crossover, no obvious holes or phase issues through that critical range, and surprising bass and treble response yet still with a bit of that Auratone sound to them.

And of course my good old ElectroVoice Sentry 100A passive studio monitors which are really great in many ways. But my main mixers are the little jbl/vifa combos and the little yamaha full rangers.

I might change that over time...

But you don't have to use actual Auratone speakers to get some of the more important sonic benefits that they provide. They are really great though at what they do, so if you have them I don't see any reason to get something else. But if you don't have them, check out freebie speakers to see what you can find - I think I paid $10 for these two surrounds plus a matching yamaha center speaker (which shock of shocks actually has a dome tweet and crossover and is really quite hifi - I use it as a mono mix reference now running from a different amp).

just sayin...

cheers,
Don

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by rainsinvelvet

We have a pair of Auratones at the studio. but like UBK I found something that seemed to be more relevant for todays "real world" situations.
I use little, cheap Dell powered speakers that used to come with the computers They cost like $30, but man between those and my mains the mixes leave me with little to guess..

of course YMMV, but thought I'd chime in on what works for me. I think I'd buy a cheap boom box with AUX inputs before I bought Auratones or whatever..

ERic

oh yea, and I've done both of those two over the years LoL, I have the sanyo aux in boombox and the little computer speakers and the ipod headphones all lying around at the ready. very good ideas too.

which is why I have trouble walking into my mixing room....

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

So.....UBK, are your new monitors good for both 1 & 2 (above), or are they "3k-8k focused"?

Mine are amazing for balances, moreso than Avantones imho, and where they really shine is sorting out presence freqs, which imo are the new midrange. If you get 3k-8k nailed, you get a mix that not only translates, it's always at exactly the right brightness which in 2010 is incredibly important but also incredibly difficult, some systems are super 5k pokey, some are super 7k brassy, and some are 10k spitty but almost every consumer system made today is bright.

So my answer to your question is 'both', in a new school way.

When I first got Avantones, I put the ns10's aside, and when I would throw a mix up on the cubes I was like "Oh, I can easily hear everything that's wrong." But the problem was that after I 'fixed' it on them, it didn't translate elsewhere. This is not the fault of the speaker, it's just that my brain can't decode them intuitively.

As soon as I fired up the ns10's again, everything fell back into place. I get those boxes, they just make sense to me without thinking about it.

But ns10's are a legacy product. Meanwhile, consumer systems have changed radically in the past 10 years and I don't see any purpose-built mix refs that address that. There are a hodgepodge of favorite boomboxes, favorite computer speakers etc., but these too tend to be legacy products.

So I started shopping for single drivers that a) made sense to my brain and b) translated on my car stereo, imac, dad's bose, ipod buds, studio mains, and home theater. In December I found this generic tweeter-sized fullrange that sounds 4x bigger than it is, it's 1.25" with a smooth top but the thing that amazed me is that in the right enclosure they actually extend down to like 400hz, so vocals and acoustics and other instruments sound light but they sound natural. Despite their cheapness and small size there are no nasty resonances, unlike the other 36 I listened to.

The kicker is they run off any old headphone amp; I've been mixing in the evening laying on my couch with a laptop on my stomach and these stupid little speakers by my side and as long as you check the bottom 2 octaves on your bigs the translation will be dead on. Everyone who's been to my house and heard them has asked what the hell they are and where they can get them, they're actually enjoyable to listen to and sound way better than 99% of other portable crapjobs out there. That they need no amplification is like the free prize in the box of Count Chocula.

The trick is the enclosure, I have no idea how to get something like this manufactured, I only know sheet metal and casting and that's too pricey and overbuilt. If they cost $300 they're just another neat product but if they cost $100 they're the best thing since sliced bread, so I'm workin' on that latter approach.


Gregory Scott - ubk