To avantone (mixcubes) or not?

[Gans Ja]

Originally Posted by u b k

... things have changed since the 70's.
Gregory Scott - ubk

good pointthumbsup

btw I use Creative speakers for sh*t reference) and
Panasonic boombox. Its allright.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by u b k

Mine are amazing for balances, moreso than Avantones imho, and where they really shine is sorting out presence freqs, which imo are the new midrange. If you get 3k-8k nailed, you get a mix that not only translates, it's always at exactly the right brightness which in 2010 is incredibly important but also incredibly difficult, some systems are super 5k pokey, some are super 7k brassy, and some are 10k spitty but almost every consumer system made today is bright.

So my answer to your question is 'both', in a new school way.

When I first got Avantones, I put the ns10's aside, and when I would throw a mix up on the cubes I was like "Oh, I can easily hear everything that's wrong." But the problem was that after I 'fixed' it on them, it didn't translate elsewhere. This is not the fault of the speaker, it's just that my brain can't decode them intuitively.

As soon as I fired up the ns10's again, everything fell back into place. I get those boxes, they just make sense to me without thinking about it.

But ns10's are a legacy product. Meanwhile, consumer systems have changed radically in the past 10 years and I don't see any purpose-built mix refs that address that. There are a hodgepodge of favorite boomboxes, favorite computer speakers etc., but these too tend to be legacy products.

So I started shopping for single drivers that a) made sense to my brain and b) translated on my car stereo, imac, dad's bose, ipod buds, studio mains, and home theater. In December I found this generic tweeter-sized fullrange that sounds 4x bigger than it is, it's 1.25" with a smooth top but the thing that amazed me is that in the right enclosure they actually extend down to like 400hz, so vocals and acoustics and other instruments sound light but they sound natural. Despite their cheapness and small size there are no nasty resonances, unlike the other 36 I listened to.

The kicker is they run off any old headphone amp; I've been mixing in the evening laying on my couch with a laptop on my stomach and these stupid little speakers by my side and as long as you check the bottom 2 octaves on your bigs the translation will be dead on. Everyone who's been to my house and heard them has asked what the hell they are and where they can get them, they're actually enjoyable to listen to and sound way better than 99% of other portable crapjobs out there. That they need no amplification is like the free prize in the box of Count Chocula.

The trick is the enclosure, I have no idea how to get something like this manufactured, I only know sheet metal and casting and that's too pricey and overbuilt. If they cost $300 they're just another neat product but if they cost $100 they're the best thing since sliced bread, so I'm workin' on that latter approach.


Gregory Scott - ubk

so this is sort of pre-sales pitch announcement? Sounds cool though. Look forward in hearing more about them.

[elmolemon]

Originally Posted by Animus

so this is sort of pre-sales pitch announcement? Sounds cool though. Look forward in hearing more about them.

+1

I'd be interested, too!

[Bubbagump]

Originally Posted by greatgreatriver

anyone tried the active mixcubes with a sub?

Had never considered such a thing.... it would be like a high end Bose system.

[Clonkified]

Hi Gregory - do you have an ETA when your speakers will go on sale?

I was planning on buying mixcubes soon - I usually find two issues in my mixes (with BM5As): the vocals might be too soft or the snare too loud, and when playing back on consumer speakers (especially those with a sub, things are completely out of whack (too boomy, too harsh). Was hoping the mixcubes would help with that.

[greatgreatriver]

Originally Posted by Bubbagump

Had never considered such a thing.... it would be like a high end Bose system.

haha

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Clonkified

Hi Gregory - do you have an ETA when your speakers will go on sale?

I was planning on buying mixcubes soon - I usually find two issues in my mixes (with BM5As): the vocals might be too soft or the snare too loud, and when playing back on consumer speakers (especially those with a sub, things are completely out of whack (too boomy, too harsh). Was hoping the mixcubes would help with that.

I wouldn't wait on me, it could be months, I have other, higher priority projects at the moment. You, otoh, need to sort yourself out now.

What it really sounds like is your room needs treatment/trapping (low freq issues) and you're not monitoring at the right levels (vocal/snare placement).

Do you reference other cd's when mixing? You might just be grossly misreading your monitors, overmixing bass to 'feel' the music when the 5a's aren't really the right monitors to feel, they don't move enough air with enough efficiency.

Mix for a while, then stop and put in a cd or mp3 and toggle it with your mix. Get the levels the same (that's crucial) and switch back and forth, and really listen to how the bass compares to yours, how the vocal sits, how bright the whole thing is.

Get some good phones to triple check your bass on. Small speakers like the mixcubes or ns10's or whatever, none of them will help with your bottom 2 octaves.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[u b k]

Originally Posted by Animus

so this is sort of pre-sales pitch announcement?

I just re-read my yammering and yeah, that was borderline, I gotta watch out for that.

I try hard not to be the typical GS pimp type, sometimes I just get overly excited about all the stuff I'm cooking up over here and god knows my lady gets sick of hearing about it!


Gregory Scott - ubk

[DCommand]

Thats the quistion

[recall]

Originally Posted by u b k

Mine are amazing for balances, moreso than Avantones imho, and where they really shine is sorting out presence freqs, which imo are the new midrange. If you get 3k-8k nailed, you get a mix that not only translates, it's always at exactly the right brightness which in 2010 is incredibly important but also incredibly difficult, some systems are super 5k pokey, some are super 7k brassy, and some are 10k spitty but almost every consumer system made today is bright.

So my answer to your question is 'both', in a new school way.

When I first got Avantones, I put the ns10's aside, and when I would throw a mix up on the cubes I was like "Oh, I can easily hear everything that's wrong." But the problem was that after I 'fixed' it on them, it didn't translate elsewhere. This is not the fault of the speaker, it's just that my brain can't decode them intuitively.

As soon as I fired up the ns10's again, everything fell back into place. I get those boxes, they just make sense to me without thinking about it.

But ns10's are a legacy product. Meanwhile, consumer systems have changed radically in the past 10 years and I don't see any purpose-built mix refs that address that. There are a hodgepodge of favorite boomboxes, favorite computer speakers etc., but these too tend to be legacy products.

So I started shopping for single drivers that a) made sense to my brain and b) translated on my car stereo, imac, dad's bose, ipod buds, studio mains, and home theater. In December I found this generic tweeter-sized fullrange that sounds 4x bigger than it is, it's 1.25" with a smooth top but the thing that amazed me is that in the right enclosure they actually extend down to like 400hz, so vocals and acoustics and other instruments sound light but they sound natural. Despite their cheapness and small size there are no nasty resonances, unlike the other 36 I listened to.

The kicker is they run off any old headphone amp; I've been mixing in the evening laying on my couch with a laptop on my stomach and these stupid little speakers by my side and as long as you check the bottom 2 octaves on your bigs the translation will be dead on. Everyone who's been to my house and heard them has asked what the hell they are and where they can get them, they're actually enjoyable to listen to and sound way better than 99% of other portable crapjobs out there. That they need no amplification is like the free prize in the box of Count Chocula.

The trick is the enclosure, I have no idea how to get something like this manufactured, I only know sheet metal and casting and that's too pricey and overbuilt. If they cost $300 they're just another neat product but if they cost $100 they're the best thing since sliced bread, so I'm workin' on that latter approach.


Gregory Scott - ubk

Where do I sign? I think my experience with the Avantones were the same. I really liked them but they weren't quite doing what I wanted from them.

[Barish]

Originally Posted by greatgreatriver

anyone tried the active mixcubes with a sub?

No but it goes well with mustard and pickled gherkins.

[twentyhertz]

Got my passives last week. They're a perfect antidote/compliment to my scoopy 20/20s.

As others have said they change dramatically with burning in. Mine have been running for a week now and sound so much better than when I first hooked them up. In fact they're really quite pleasant to listen to, with certain kinds of music.

[twentyhertz]

Originally Posted by Nisse Hult

Thats the quistion

Is it? Do you have a good amp to drive them with? Every passive speaker/monitor I've ever used sounded much better with a good amp.

Are you trying to figure out if a good amp + passives will sound better/worse than the actives? Cause if that's your question I have no idea..not sure who would. Maybe you could call Avant and ask them?

[Clonkified]

A few folks on this thread have recommended getting consumer speakers, so to the people who have the mixcubes - why do you like them better than say just getting something like Altec Lansing or Harman Kardon 2.1 computer speakers? Do they help better with translation or just the mid-range or both?

[beingmf]

Originally Posted by Clonkified

A few folks on this thread have recommended getting consumer speakers, so to the people who have the mixcubes - why do you like them better than say just getting something like Altec Lansing or Harman Kardon 2.1 computer speakers? Do they help better with translation or just the mid-range or both?

Because they are closed, single-driver broadband designs.

[skythemusic]

Anything ever happen on the speaker front ubk???

[kats]

First off, I should say that the Avantones 3k peak makes it impossible to balance vocals on them for me. I much prefer Auratones for this very reason as I find them much flatter in the mids.

Now with Auratones I'm not using them to mimic a typical crap speaker, but rather to hear and balance the midrange without being fooled by very low or very hi frequencies (and the fact that they are single driver design) that can make up for deficiencies in the midrange that may cause bad translation problems.

[sineborg]

Some auratone alternatives from Behringer...

BEHRINGER: C5A

Think they'll be fairly cheap too.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by skythemusic

Anything ever happen on the speaker front ubk???

I still haven't figured a cost-effective way to house these drivers. Currently, the cheapest solution I can find would put the things on the street for $500, and while I think their performance is incredible, I don't see anyone paying $500 for a pair of tiny tweeter-sized speakers that run off a headphone amp.

But I'm not giving up!


Gregory Scott - ubk

[api2500]

Originally Posted by u b k

I still haven't figured a cost-effective way to house these drivers. Currently, the cheapest solution I can find would put the things on the street for $500, and while I think their performance is incredible, I don't see anyone paying $500 for a pair of tiny tweeter-sized speakers that run off a headphone amp.

But I'm not giving up!


Gregory Scott - ubk

Dude, don't!

I know at least two other guys including myself feel exactly the same way about the Avantones and (I'm afraid to say it) the NS10s. I'm really intrigued to hear what the UBK powerhouse has cooked up.

I look forward to hearing it. I hope it works out, because you definitely have a few customers over at this end.

[loopy]

Originally Posted by sineborg

Some auratone alternatives from Behringer...

BEHRINGER: C5A

Think they'll be fairly cheap too.

BEHRITONE

Ya gotta hand it to Behringer to jump on the bandwagon.

Actually they look pretty cool, very 70's looking with the "walnut veneer".

Avantone actives seem way overpriced to me.

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by sineborg

Some auratone alternatives from Behringer...

BEHRINGER: C5A

Think they'll be fairly cheap too.

As an auratone fanatic, I'm looking forward to reviewing these when they come out.

UBK, once you get your casing situation figured out, let me know. I'd review those too.

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by u b k

The question is, do you balance the mids and eq the ends, or do you balance one end and eq the mids and the other end? The former approach results in the least distrubance to the freqs we're most sensitive to.

Gregory, I believe your posts contain the highest ratio of genuinely helpful wisdom to inconsequential blather of those of perhaps the entire GS community!

Someday, I swear, I will have some Kush Audio gear in my rack.

You rock, my friend whom I've never met!

And speaking of ratios, for me, the Avantones give the highest value per dollar spent of any gear I currently possess.

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

And speaking of ratios, for me, the Avantones give the highest value per dollar spent of any gear I currently possess.

My homemade 5" driver mix cubes were a pretty good deal, too. I used the model 11-159 from Electonix.com, which sells for $3.99 and pretty much nails the Auratone response. I used spare plywood and parts to build the box and install the drivers.

I'm checking out their 2" models for a good driver for a set of monitors that mimic laptops and PC speakers. Those go for around $2-$3 each.

Cheers,

Otto

[spenceroo]

I just bought a pair of $38 Pyle Cubes with paper cones and a (supposedly) 200 watt rating. They get crazy loud and work perfect for referencing. Why spend hundreds on these type of speakers when all you're doing is checking the mix for balance?

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by u b k

things have changed since the 70's.


Gregory Scott - ubk

exactly the whole problem w/ today's music
but the auratone was the 70s equivalent
of the pc speaker, so these clone speakers
are in the ballpark

[3rd Degree]

I can't vouch for Avantone Mixcubes but I am looking into them...well actually waiting for the Behringers to come out because it's just a poor quality speaker. I can say this...I have greatly improved my mixes using terrible computer speakers. They are really quiet at max volume, have no amp, no crossover, just a speaker. It has helped quite a bit. I plan on trying a stock 6.5 in car speaker, I have a few drivers, or a 6x9 for fun before I buy. I only listen to my computer speakers about 5% of the time, and I am still learning them, but, it really helps me focus on the mids. I image that Mixcubes would be great, using a similar idea (old computer speakers) has helped me greatly. I only tried it as I am very interested in Mixcubes and I wanted to try something similar before I purchased.

[sineborg]

Originally Posted by talontsiawd

I can't vouch for Avantone Mixcubes but I am looking into them...well actually waiting for the Behringers to come out because it's just a poor quality speaker. I can say this...I have greatly improved my mixes using terrible computer speakers. They are really quiet at max volume, have no amp, no crossover, just a speaker. It has helped quite a bit. I plan on trying a stock 6.5 in car speaker, I have a few drivers, or a 6x9 for fun before I buy. I only listen to my computer speakers about 5% of the time, and I am still learning them, but, it really helps me focus on the mids. I image that Mixcubes would be great, using a similar idea (old computer speakers) has helped me greatly. I only tried it as I am very interested in Mixcubes and I wanted to try something similar before I purchased.

FutureMusic magazine has an interview with Sebastien Leger.

He actually mixed on a pair of Samsung computer speakers.

[api2500]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

Gregory, I believe you posts contain the highest ratio of genuinely helpful wisdom to inconsequential blather of those of perhaps the entire GS community!

Someday, I swear, I will have some Kush Audio gear in my rack.

You rock, my friend whom I've never met!

+1. thumbsup. Absolutely.

[S-N-S]

im thinking on getting these for reference
Amazon.com: Pyle Home PCB3WT 3-Inch 100-Watt Mini Cube Bookshelf Speaker (White): Electronics

but what amplifier would work with them,i have to buy that one also