vocals and dynamic range

[stellar]

when having the vocalist "work the mic" for rock music, how far in your experience is far enough to even out the vocals in the loudest parts?

[Thumper]

It really depends on the mic. There's a huge difference between moving 3 inches away from an SM7 and moving 3 inches away from an 87.

It also depends on the natural dynamic range of the singer/performance. Are we talking from a whisper to a full blown scream? Does he only have to be louder on the higher parts to be able to hit them?

Have him get comfortable in the room, coach him a bit, maybe send him a dry (non compressed) signal to his headphones.

[stellar]

Originally Posted by Thumper

It really depends on the mic. There's a huge difference between moving 3 inches away from an SM7 and moving 3 inches away from an 87.

It also depends on the natural dynamic range of the singer/performance. Are we talking from a whisper to a full blown scream? Does he only have to be louder on the higher parts to be able to hit them?

Have him get comfortable in the room, coach him a bit, maybe send him a dry (non compressed) signal to his headphones.

good points. SM7 is the mic. singing is from normal to shouting, think foo fighters or rage or really any modern rock

[Thumper]

Are you using a compressor during the tracking stage at all?

I wouldn't recommend backing away from an sm7 too much, some is great but you'll be able to tell when it's too much, the sound will change quite a bit. Proximity effect at it's finest. I'd suggest riding your mic pre output a bit on the louder sections, 2 or 3 db will help out a lot.

I also can't recommend a La2a compressor enough for really dynamic tracking. Just kiss it a bit, 4-5 db gain reduction at the loudest parts. You won't even know it's working.

I know la2as are expensive as hell, but they really are magical. ADL 1000s are the same deal in action, but the tone is a bit different. Distressor in opto mode will work great. Can't really recommend anything lower priced, I haven't used most of it in a long time. Someone else will be able to chime in on that I'm sure.

But before you go throwing money at the issue, have the singer practice.. Have him come into the control room so you can play it for him, and show him what you're talking about, and the words or phrases that he should back off a bit. Coach him, and mold him into a great mic workerer (ha!)... This might take a bit of work at first, but with enough time it will become natural to him and help him in all facets of singing. You have to have someone show you how to drive a stick shift before you can figure it out, ya know?

[stellar]

so when you say "when to back off" does that mean distance or meaning to control the voice more?

I transferred the mix to my Digi setup to do vocal tests. meaning I recorded some 24 bit clean vocals to get the compressor set right before I track with it.

I am working with an 1176 and a distoressor. the 1176 just sucks. basically with any amount of comrpession the loud parts end up quieter than the quiet parts... any amount with this compressor seems to be too much. The tone is nice and I get what it does, it just seems like it would be better suited to something that is more even to start with.

The distressor I am getting a lot closer but still haven't nailed it. I'll look into the 2A perhaps.

[Radiogal]

Record the soft and loud parts in different takes and adjust the input gain.
Don´t take the air out of recordings. You can always compress more afterwards but can´t repair an overcompresed recorded signal.

[Sigma]

re 20's have almost no proximity effect for a cardiod mike..they were designed that way

[studiostuff]

Set up two mics. Go to two different tracks with different input levels.

Use the SM7 for the screaming and what ever else you like for the "normal" part. Just have him sing to the correct mic for the appropriate dynamic range. Mute the other track or scrub it in the parts you don't need or can't use.

That way you're ready to let him do as much of an entire take as he's capable of doing... which can help with the organic unity of the vocal.

[Thumper]

What settings are you using with your 1176? That's another great vocal tracking compressor that I'm a big fan of.

A setting that I use quite a bit: 4:1 ratio, attack at about 10 o'clock, release as fast as it will go, so 4 or 5 o'clock. Remember that the attack and release setting are backwards from most every other compressor.

Now here's the trick, don't look at the meter... The meter is quite slow, it's a vu meter, so there's a lot of gain reduction going on that you can't see. Adjust the input level by ear. If the meter is showing anything more than 2 or 3 db of gain reduction, it's too much!

Maybe you have a faulty 1176 if you can't get it to sound good.....

Before you go spend 3500 on an la2 you really should coach the singer. Have him listen in the control room to a dry take, and he should easily be able to hear when he needs to move a couple of inches back.

One singer I worked with was so good at working the mic, I didn't need a comp at all. Took the comp out of the signal chain. A talented singer is better than a talented compressor...

[stellar]

thumper,

thanks for all the help and guidance. i am the singer. i have been recording myself over 10 years now and still never gotten a fantastic vocal sound. i am determined to get it right this time around. i tried backing off on the loud parts last night. i did probably 30 takes trying different stuff and just couldn't nail it, which is why i started the thread.

those are the exact 1176 settings i tried but with slower release. it always ends up a pumping pile of crap . but maybe the problem is that there is about 15 db diff between parts and thats while working the mic

to be honest i would spend any amount of cash at this point but i dont think it would help. on this board you can get opinions about gear all day long but try to ask what mic to point where and nobody has a clue

thanks again

[John Eppstein]

Whatever works. There's no substitute for practice - bring the singer in a day or two early and run through the material. Don't be afraid to use fader moves. Try to avoid using compression if possible.

[stellar]

John,

that is the goal. for some reason its just not coming together. I feel like I am overlooking something obvious....like I am just doing something wrong.

13 years ago when I bought my first casette 4-track I brought it home and quickly improvised something on the drums, guitar, bass, and vocals. everything sounded great but the vocals! the volume was all over the place. not knowing any better, I went back to the store and got a better vocal mic. then a compressor. then I took voice lessons... 13 years later I have a 2", an 1176 and neve preamps and the sound still sucks!!!

[stellar]

opto mode is sounding good right now, for some reason i never liked it before. I am going to do some more experimentation, I think I might be able to get closer in on quiet parts without it getting too bassy. for some reason on my voice with the bass cut engaged it distorts.