I thought I would give this a spin. I love Metallica, from listening to them in my school days and going out and skipping school to buy Master of Puppets and Justice and actually liking the Black album somewhat - what the hell is St Anger, what a total mess!! 7 years makes it sound worse.. lazy as hell. I liked their new record but alas it had no lasting appeal and the guitar solos were shockingly bad. There is no passion in this record at all. It's a huge blemish on a successful career overall. I didn't like load/reload either I admit, nor the classical album *yawn*. Everything after the black album is just rich metallers not being metallers at all.
Did we need another thread about this? No. But you have to admit, total fan or not, St Anger has absolutely nothing of note to remember. How did they miss the ball so much? Embarrassing.
You know what I miss about Metallica? The arrangements, the occasional classical guitar bits, the harmony guitar build ups as seen in the song Master of Puppets, the urgency, the hate. Everyone used to be in awe of them. I will not defend them any more. Much as I love my RTL and MOP and Justice is ace too, these guys should have stopped. ugh that hurts to write that. I want them to be good again but it's not going to happen.
I thought I would give this a spin. I love Metallica, from listening to them in my school days and going out and skipping school to buy Master of Puppets and Justice and actually liking the Black album somewhat - what the hell is St Anger, what a total mess!! 7 years makes it sound worse.. lazy as hell. I liked their new record but alas it had no lasting appeal and the guitar solos were shockingly bad. There is no passion in this record at all. It's a huge blemish on a successful career overall. I didn't like load/reload either I admit, nor the classical album *yawn*. Everything after the black album is just rich metallers not being metallers at all.
Did we need another thread about this? No. But you have to admit, total fan or not, St Anger has absolutely nothing of note to remember. How did they miss the ball so much? Embarrassing.
You know what I miss about Metallica? The arrangements, the occasional classical guitar bits, the harmony guitar build ups as seen in the song Master of Puppets, the urgency, the hate. Everyone used to be in awe of them. I will not defend them any more. Much as I love my RTL and MOP and Justice is ace too, these guys should have stopped. ugh that hurts to write that. I want them to be good again but it's not going to happen.
You know what, I love St. Anger, probably for all the reasons you hate it. I love how cock-on-the-floor it all is. I love how they effectively made an anti-Metallica
album. The guitars sound tozzin in my opinion; they're like steak with a side of chips (fries to you 'cans) - honest, wholesome. I love the raucous sound of the drums too, I love the fact they deliberately chopped them to cut of the cymbals and the painfully RAW sound - things you wouldn't expect from the normal Metallica approach; recorded to technical perfection, edited to technical perfection, mixed to technical perfection - in other words; user friendly metal music.
Most of all, I love the fact that it just sounds like them in a room blasting through their songs; no cumbersome chord progressions, no widdly solos, none of the predictable carefully considered and planned out arrangements. There's a bit in Some Kinda Monster where the music stops and you hear the feedback kick in as James/kirk stomp on their distortion pedal just before belting into the next section - tozzin!
Don't get me wrong, I also love all the more 'normal' aspects to Metallica's discog, but given the choice between St Anger and, say, Death Magnetic, I'd listen to S.A. every time!
I know most people will probably disagree, but I just love it.
Last edited by David Watts; 11th February 2010 at 10:22 PM..
Reason: words being missed out in all the rush to type, you know the drill...
Haha what a great post - I totally respect your feelings about the record and if you love it that's great. I have met other people that feel the same as you (not many), I just don't see it. Doesn't mean you are wrong of course but it means the record isn't as objectively useless as I portrayed it as being so. Wish I could get it on that level.
Haha what a great post - I totally respect your feelings about the record and if you love it that's great. I have met other people that feel the same as you (not many), I just don't see it. Doesn't mean you are wrong of course but it means the record isn't as objectively useless as I portrayed it as being so. Wish I could get it on that level.
If you have't already, you should watch the documentary about the making of this (is called Some Kinda Monster?), it was after watching that that I started to 'get' where this album came from.
Yea I have seen it (great film) and that made me think even more that this was just a huge copy paste PT job trying to salvage a record that wasn't there in the first place, at least not in the tradition of their previous standards/workflow. I'm not a huge drum critique guy but the drums on this record are kinda funny sounding.
They went through too much hell and the record company wanted a release.
You've articulated, what to me comes across as rich and lazy song writing on their part. That careful consideration and planning in their songs was part of the appeal and why I continue listening to Mega when after the Black Album I couldn't care less if the rest of Metallica follows Cliff Burton. Talented musicians, doing nothing with it.
If you have't already, you should watch the documentary about the making of this (is called Some Kinda Monster?), it was after watching that that I started to 'get' where this album came from.
I remember so many people complaining about the drums sounding horrible but I remember Bob Rock saying in the movie something like "let's make a record that sounds like people jamming in a garage...but it's Metallica." They specifically wanted the drums to sound the way they did.
I personally haven't like them since the Black album but I think Bob & Co accomplished what they wanted to with St. Anger.
I thought I would give this a spin. I love Metallica, from listening to them in my school days and going out and skipping school to buy Master of Puppets and Justice and actually liking the Black album somewhat - what the hell is St Anger, what a total mess!! 7 years makes it sound worse.. lazy as hell. I liked their new record but alas it had no lasting appeal and the guitar solos were shockingly bad. There is no passion in this record at all. It's a huge blemish on a successful career overall. I didn't like load/reload either I admit, nor the classical album *yawn*. Everything after the black album is just rich metallers not being metallers at all.
Did we need another thread about this? No. But you have to admit, total fan or not, St Anger has absolutely nothing of note to remember. How did they miss the ball so much? Embarrassing.
You know what I miss about Metallica? The arrangements, the occasional classical guitar bits, the harmony guitar build ups as seen in the song Master of Puppets, the urgency, the hate. Everyone used to be in awe of them. I will not defend them any more. Much as I love my RTL and MOP and Justice is ace too, these guys should have stopped. ugh that hurts to write that. I want them to be good again but it's not going to happen.
Is it really that bad? I was youtubing some old vids from the RTL and kill em tours and even the Ron Mcgovney days recently. They had so much magic back then. Its funny they are still sloppy at times back then (lars) But they had the energy the vibe is all there I just don't understand how you can write a record like Puppets or even the Black Album and then create such a downer like St. Anger. Though I really don't consider Load a 'Metallica' record in the thunderous thrash/power Metal sense of the word , it still has some great songs and immaculate production It just blows my mind had awful the production of ST anger is. Also not one 'hook' on the whole record.
I had the pleasure of seeing Metallica on every tour up until load tour and they always blew me away. I saw them in 1983, twice in 84 had front row in the pit and to this day are still my most memorable musical experiences. Now when I see them on tv or video whatever they are just not the same bad as far as the magic goes. They lost something. Even With Newsted they were always good. the new bass player is just all wrong. Stage presence and playing style is just not right. I was a big fan of ST and IG but I just don't think he fits Metallica. They should have got someone with less musical ability I guess and more mojo. Cliff was a good musician but still very very raw at the same time. Almost reckless at times, and it fit flawlessly. Jason was average player at best and that fit also. They need a guy who is more vibe than musician. They should have got a bass player like Rex from Pantera or someone else who can write riffs and help inject some magic back in that band. I say even get Jason back.
I'm gonna go out on a limb, but they should break up or boot Kirk and get Dave back or do something. Mustaine continues to blow my mind how he just keeps writing great record after great record all essentially all by himself. I Like Hetfields vocals better but If Metallica regrouped with a better (fit) bass player and Mustaine it would be the logical step. The perfect band would be Hetfield, Ulrich, Mustain and Dave Ellefson on Bass. It would be a great band. Their best records were the ones Dave wrote songs on and had an influence. Kirk is (now) such a miserable soloist. He is talented with the melody/texture lines and used to be a great soloist but Dave is still a master of both nad away better rthm player than kirk ever was. If they continue to produce forgetful records what's the point? I think they should regroup or call it a day. Since now they are like a live tribute band, a tribute to classic Metallica.
Maybe they should boot Lars and get vinne Paul. Now that would be kool
I remember so many people complaining about the drums sounding horrible but I remember Bob Rock saying in the movie something like "let's make a record that sounds like people jamming in a garage...but it's Metallica." They specifically wanted the drums to sound the way they did.
That's generally the vibe I picked up from it.
I still dig the drum sound though.
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I remember so many people complaining about the drums sounding horrible but I remember Bob Rock saying in the movie something like "let's make a record that sounds like people jamming in a garage...but it's Metallica." They specifically wanted the drums to sound the way they did.
I personally haven't like them since the Black album but I think Bob & Co accomplished what they wanted to with St. Anger.
but both garage days records had great drum sounds?
even 'Am I evil' and 'Blitzkrieg' are really cool drum sounds
anger is awful
st. anger sucked and not becasue of the recording so much just becasue i felt they lost it even on the load and unload albums to some degree. they got past their prime and went from beer guzling metal heads to this.....
I remember hetfield at one show
saying "if you came hear to see lipstick and eye makeup and the words rock and roll baby in every f'in song ...well this ain't the f'in band!!!!"
that bag gives that all new meaning
"if you came hear to see Armani suits !! and the words shopaholic in every f'in song ...well this ain't the f'in band!!!!"
Actually the sandals he is wearing are the worst part. and he goes shopping with the bass player?
what are they 'male' bonding?
I think people give Metallica waaaay too much crud. Band's evolve, tastes change, sometimes out of nothing more than boredom... that band absolutely defined Metal in its infancy... Bach invented Western Music... there's just not much one can do once you set a bar that high... personally I like a good bit of the Load/ReLoad era stuff. Is it metal? Not really, more like kick-you-in-the-nuts hard rock... but those guys have been rode hard and worn out... I've got a friend who just went out on the road for the first time. 2 weeks in he's telling me he's completely exhausted... Metallica's been doing it for almost 30 years now.
I will agree that St. Anger really blew... and Lars is a terrible excuse for a drummer. I've also noticed that the guitar solos have gotten pathetic as of late... it could well be that they all just want to call it quits. Being in a band that long, particularly playing metal and hard rock and all the stigma that goes with it, has got to be the equivalent of the shakiest marriage in all human history.
It kinda reminds me of the last RATM album... 4 dudes who'd just seen too much of each other and had to make the label happy.
Just my .02... I don't even own any Metallica records.
I do like some of the songwriting and energy in St Anger. The "no solo" approach sux, I'll take a bad Kirk solo rather than nothing for 70 minutes. Also, the garage production went way too far on the drums- the metal chair snare is the worst thing I've heard on a record ever. But still a better disc than pop Metallica Load/Reload.
The new CD is the best they've put out since Justice. Kirk plays a few great solos, but then on others I think to myself "they have a room of people listening to this track and no one stepped up and said do it again? Where was Lars? That guy always has something obnoxious to add; maybe he was busy auctioning off his million dollar paintings...which is the precise reason this band can't be the same as the struggling 80s band- too much money gave them an obnoxious rich pompous vibe. Mega is back to making killer tunes probably beacuse Mustaine is still unsatisfied and yearns to be greater.
That new bass player is my favorite bass player of all time, but he has to follow the Hetfield/Lars rules in this project. Too bad, he could have really addded a whole new fresh vibe that has never been heard before...check out Infectious Groove, that stuff rules, he is like a Metal Flea.
I dunno, I thought the idea behind St Anger was great. They had made two shit records in Load and Reload, rehashed some songs with the SFSO after that, time to do something totally different right? If you wanted to hear something that resembled Black, Justice, MOP etc then go and listen to Black, Justice, MOP..
Sure, after 4 songs or so the sound is so fatiguing, the drums get annoying, the sloppiness is distracting, but I thought it was at least a good idea.
The new album is both a step forward and a step back (both in a good way). Some of their original roots mixed in with a fresh new sound and energy. I was lucky enough to catch them at Madison Square Garden in November, and whilst it was an average show, the new songs sounded fantastic, easily as good as their old ones.
If Metallica was still doing the same thing they did in the 80s (to please the 'diehard' fans) they would be criticised. They try something new and move forward as a band, they get criticised.
After that long in the game, you just cant win. Your either a has-been or a sellout.
I do like some of the songwriting and energy in St Anger. The "no solo" approach sux, I'll take a bad Kirk solo rather than nothing for 70 minutes. Also, the garage production went way too far on the drums- the metal chair snare is the worst thing I've heard on a record ever. But still a better disc than pop Metallica Load/Reload.
The new CD is the best they've put out since Justice.
I'm gonna go out on a limb, but they should break up or boot Kirk and get Dave back or do something. Mustaine continues to blow my mind how he just keeps writing great record after great record all essentially all by himself. I Like Hetfields vocals better but If Metallica regrouped with a better (fit) bass player and Mustaine it would be the logical step. The perfect band would be Hetfield, Ulrich, Mustain and Dave Ellefson on Bass. It would be a great band. Their best records were the ones Dave wrote songs on and had an influence. Kirk is (now) such a miserable soloist. He is talented with the melody/texture lines and used to be a great soloist but Dave is still a master of both nad away better rthm player than kirk ever was. If they continue to produce forgetful records what's the point? I think they should regroup or call it a day. Since now they are like a live tribute band, a tribute to classic Metallica.
Maybe they should boot Lars and get vinne Paul. Now that would be kool
Dave Mustaine - Lead voice / lead guitar
James Hetfield - Rhythm guitar / voice
Dave Ellefson - Bass
Vinne Paul - Drums?
Yeah, I'd pay to see that!
Kinda OT, but is it just me that's praying for a Phil Anselmo/Rex Brown/Vinnie Paul 'Pantera' tour with Zakk Wylde on guitar?
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I thought I would give this a spin. I love Metallica, from listening to them in my school days and going out and skipping school to buy Master of Puppets and Justice and actually liking the Black album somewhat - what the hell is St Anger, what a total mess!! 7 years makes it sound worse.. lazy as hell. I liked their new record but alas it had no lasting appeal and the guitar solos were shockingly bad. There is no passion in this record at all. It's a huge blemish on a successful career overall. I didn't like load/reload either I admit, nor the classical album *yawn*. Everything after the black album is just rich metallers not being metallers at all.
Did we need another thread about this? No. But you have to admit, total fan or not, St Anger has absolutely nothing of note to remember. How did they miss the ball so much? Embarrassing.
You know what I miss about Metallica? The arrangements, the occasional classical guitar bits, the harmony guitar build ups as seen in the song Master of Puppets, the urgency, the hate. Everyone used to be in awe of them. I will not defend them any more. Much as I love my RTL and MOP and Justice is ace too, these guys should have stopped. ugh that hurts to write that. I want them to be good again but it's not going to happen.
Yeah, I gave this a revisit around the time that Death Magnetic came out.
actual lyric, but that's what you should do with that album too. metallica was the first band i was ever rabid about, and even thru Load and Re-Load i gave them the benefit of the doubt, but when you start writing songs like Unforgiven Part Three yea time to call it quits guys. when Newsted left is when i pretty much completely dropped out the metallica world completely.
and i'm sure it's been discussed to death around here already, but that last album, man what an engineering trainwreck...
actual lyric, but that's what you should do with that album too. metallica was the first band i was ever rabid about, and even thru Load and Re-Load i gave them the benefit of the doubt, but when you start writing songs like Unforgiven Part Three yea time to call it quits guys. when Newsted left is when i pretty much completely dropped out the metallica world completely.
and i'm sure it's been discussed to death around here already, but that last album, man what an engineering trainwreck...
Amen to that. No dynamics. Squahsed to hell.
Not to start a war here, but take a band like Overkill. Just celebrating their 25th year. Not nearly the recognition as the sellouts formerly known as Metallica, but consistent, strong product that has stayed true to their metal roots. Great production value on probably 1/2 the budget, and I'm betting the ranch that they and their producer never had to see a marriage counselor.
I always thought Load & Reload were the albums appropriate to their age, influences and level of fame. They finally reached the point where they felt they could make the music they were feeling and damn those that didn't like it. Everything since then sounds like a mid-life crisis captured for posterity.
Used to like Zakk but after the Ozzy live album it was painful..
Here's a clip many probably haven't seen of him playing at school - pretty impressive but he never grew out of it:
zakk was awesome at a young age. He was only like 18 or 19 when he joined ozzy right?
zakk is really good all around player. Lot of feel not just a shredder. Makes Kirk look like beginner...... Metallica should get him Zakk can write great songs
Metallica's whole songwriting existence and band persona was based on angst and being the underdog and ainti hairmetal or GLAM - Gay.L.A.Metal as Dave used to put it. Back in 83 very very few people liked Metallica. When I used to go see them there were less than 150 people there. Now they are as big as Micheal Jackson. Props to them for going from the one of the most underground metal band possible to one of the biggest rock bands possible. But I think the bottom line is you can't be angst when you have millions of dollars and millions of good looking chicks.
Nirvana got all the credit forending hair metal but in reality it was really Metallica and Mega that started it.
If I'm going to buy an album, I commit to giving it a real listen. My son wanted St. Anger so I got it, listened to it 4 or 5 times in the car and just wasn't affected by it. Didn't hate it but didn't like it either. Put it on the shelf and just forgot about it. Then along came the Death Magnetic tour and the same son put together a Metallica compilation that was about 2 hours long. He got to know Metallica through me and he loves the old stuff but his compilation had plenty of new stuff, including a few Anger tracks. He likes about half of Anger, by the way. So I got to know it through his ears and it's grown on me (a little bit). Kids are great!
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St.Anger is a boring record.
I mean, really boring!
It has got no hooks, no melodies, no good arrangements, no variety: and it lasts forever.
Also, no interesting guitar parts, and it's a metal album!
Add the fact that the production is gruesome (everybody already mentioned those drums...), and you get the picture.
They wanted it to sound like that? Well, they successfully managed to.
But it's still utterly tasteless, almost unlistenable, and totally uninspiring.
Sure, they made an "anti-metallica" album, they changed their style.
I give them that.
But it's the songs themselves that are horribly sub-par.
They totally lost the plot in the mid '90s. "Load" was actually a decent album, "Reload" already was a bad rehash of the previous record (with some truly awful moments).
"S&M" was a complete disaster too.
Another sad fact is that they got Robert Trujillo there, but you never really notice what an exciting bass player he is.
I really liked him in Suicidal Tendencies and Infectious Grooves.
As a side note, am I the only one sick of hearing people say "Metallica invented heavy metal?"
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when after the Black Album I couldn't care less if the rest of Metallica follows Cliff Burton. Talented musicians, doing nothing with it.
