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$$KWV$$
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#1
9th February 2010
Old 9th February 2010
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best cheap rap-recording equipment

hi everybody!!
i m a mc from spain and i ve been rapping now for some years and i think its time to create my own recording studio. so i m thinking about how to make everything and which things i need for a good start.
i ve got a good computer with 4gb ram and a good sound card so i just need a good and cheap microphone, a mixer, active monitors, and some tipps to know which is the best selection!!=)

i ve thought about rode nt a-1, mxl 990 or 960, some shure mics, a t.bone, but don´t know which is the best one and i need one under 200 euros/$



#2
9th February 2010
Old 9th February 2010
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cheap

Find a cheap ADK gt2mk2 tube mic and use some plugin compressors or analog if you can swing it. You will need compressors regardless of what interface and daw you choose. Start there.
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#3
9th February 2010
Old 9th February 2010
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"I need something super cheap so I can tell people about how much money I have"

Sorry... First thing that popped into my head after reading the title...
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#4
9th February 2010
Old 9th February 2010
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Get an MPC2000 off the street from a guy who got one that "fell off the truck".

Find out what mic your friends use, and pocket it when you're over there.

Jack someone who has cool headphones on the train at 2am.

Shoplift some lava lamps from a pawn shop.

Grab a casio keyboard from an unsuspecting street musician playing in a low-traffic area.

Can't get cheaper than that!



I'm just completely joshing ya!
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#5
9th February 2010
Old 9th February 2010
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Rode NT1-A is a very doable first time microphone, there are better of course, but if you are looking for a brighter type LCD, NT1-A is perfect. Studio Project B1 is another great low budget choice mic.

Get either a decent preamp and cheap interface, or get a good interface and avoid buying the mic pres for now.

Obviously you need an XLR cable (or two) and a Tripod/Mic Stand for your microphone

Pop Filter for the mic.

I could go on and on. What's the budget you are working with?

What's the sound card you are working with?
$$KWV$$
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#6
10th February 2010
Old 10th February 2010
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thx i think all the mics you told me are really good ones(specially the rode nta1 xD), but i ve a problem apart of the money. the studio i want to create gonna be in a cellar which is not used and i ve heard that it would be very important to know which is the best mic for each situation so i ll tell you. the mic will be in a corner of the cellar. is it very important where da mic is??
do you know something about he studio projects b3??
#7
10th February 2010
Old 10th February 2010
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cheap

Cellars are damp and I personally wouldn't put any decent equipment there for any length of time. I would use bare minimum and remove mics every minute they aren't in use.
#8
10th February 2010
Old 10th February 2010
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I have the best and cheapest recommendation for you:
  • Build your own computer or even a used ebay laptop
  • Get Reaper ($60 for non-commercial license)
  • Get some plugins (or just use reaper ones)
  • Get decent mid level soundscard (M-audio, Presonus, etc)
  • Get AT3035 or Okatava 219 or 319 mic(s) (get Ok's Joly Modded)
  • Get pop filter for mics or practice mic technique to death
  • Get Golden age pre 73
  • Get used NS10 and amp on ebay or other decent/ GS recommended monitor
  • Get good room treatment or work in smallest room possible so acoustics not a problem
  • Find a good online mastering house and master mixes (these days not expensive at all)
$$KWV$$
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#9
12th February 2010
Old 12th February 2010
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onething more i ve found an interesting mic in a shop of malaga(that´s where i live) and i think it has a good price, it´s the CAD gtx 2200 is this a good mic or is it betta to by the studio projects, oktava or rode??XD
#10
12th February 2010
Old 12th February 2010
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For recording rap in less than stellar acoustic spaces, I would run a mile from any condenser mic. Get an SM58 dynamic mic, or a SM7B if you can afford it. These are stage (or DJ) mics that reject unwanted room sound, giving you the close up in-yer-face vocal that you need.

Acoustic treatment advice is all very well, but it's very expensive to get it right. You could easily spend all your budget on acoustics treatment which could pay for your recording rig. At minimum, some foam mattresses leaned against the walls (especially the 4 corners of the room) will go a long way.

The sound of small rooms just sucks. You could rap in a bathroom or closet or a cardboard box - and a condenser mic will pick up on all the suckiness of those spaces.

Get a Mac laptop and an Apogee Duet, use Garageband that comes bundled with it, and just plug in your Shure and your done. Totally credible gear - if you can't make a record with that, you can't make a record.
#11
12th February 2010
Old 12th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
For recording rap in less than stellar acoustic spaces, I would run a mile from any condenser mic. Get an SM58 dynamic mic, or a SM7B if you can afford it. These are stage (or DJ) mics that reject unwanted room sound, giving you the close up in-yer-face vocal that you need.

Get a Mac laptop and an Apogee Duet, use Garageband that comes bundled with it, and just plug in your Shure and your done. Totally credible gear - if you can't make a record with that, you can't make a record.
Yeh i agree, go for a dynamic in that price range. What about importing a heil pr20? they are about 100 usa dollars i think.

Also check out shure sm7 , shure sm57 and sm58, electrovoice re20 and re27 and sennheiser md 441 (or 421, ones expencive ones not, i mean the cheaper one)

They will get better results than any condencer in that price range.
#12
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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Quote:
or a SM7B if you can afford it.
I'll second that. SM7B should be your first vocal mic, especially if you don't have a nice sounding room.
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#13
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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In a bad room an SE Reflexion Filter can be a lifesaver.

Nix on the mattresses as treatment. They'll kill all the highs and make things boxy and dead sounding but won't do anything for the lows which are the real problem in a small space.

Talk to Ethan Winer about treatment options.

The advice to make the room as small as possible is also bad.
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13th February 2010
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#15
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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take a floor tom, hit it, run through the room, where it´s full and resonant, place the mic
it´s from mixing with your mind, great book, it´s for drums, but it works for vocals, too
so you´ll find a place where the waves travelling through the room don´t eliminate
too much 100hz...you can eq it....no 100hz...well, nothing can bring it
if you dry out the room with absorbing mids, the room will get dark and it´s no good idea
i don´t want to go deep in room acoustics, but try the tom thing with sm7b
if the room is too much there, try the reflection filter,
but sm7b doesnt pick up much room itself
#16
13th February 2010
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With all due respect - I mentioned mattresses in the corner as an absolute minimum room treatment option. It's better than nothing at all. Putting them in the corners helps achieve the most bass trapping possible, since the 3 major room nodes build up in the corners. By leaning them against the wall you end up with a good airgap, which maximises the effectiveness of the foam. Bass notes have long wavelengths, and any absorbant should be 1/4 wavelength from the wall for maximum efficiency.

Yes - foam is biased towards killing more highs than lows. But in a bad sounding room, any room sound you can absorb is better than not absorbing it. With a good dynamic mic you can get in close, which gives proximity effect, so you can roll off the low end, removing any room boom that is left.

If you have a lot of money to treat a room, sure - spend it on treatment. I'm just saying, you could buy a very credible rig for less than what that might cost.

BTW - I realise the OP mentioned existing computer etc. Depending on what it is, it might be a PC with loud fans and harddrives that will be really annoying in the room. More reason to use dynamics and kill room sound.

Dynamics need good mic preamps, and good converters can really help too. That's where something like the Apogee Duet can provide a simple close-enough-to-high-end-quality solution that bypasses dodgy mixers and cheap soundcards etc.

Try to avoid a mixer - at this price end, they all suck. With a decent audio interface, you can track and mix without a mixer - and this will give you a cleaner, crisper sound that is suited to rap production. Analog only surpasses good digital when you get into the serious money end.

There are always better options, but this is about value for money and credibility isn't it?

Monitors are another problem at this budget end ... I would dare suggest Dynaudio Passive BM15's, so you can hear the low end, and temporarily use a hifi amp until you can afford something better.

PS - just noticed the BM15 is discontinued - odd, because some notable people loved them. Maybe you can get some cheap, if anyone is letting them go ... a VERY respected mastering engineer once said they were the minimum he could master on ...

Whatever you get, you'll want to hear the low-end.
#17
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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it no good idea to absorb low frquencies imo, better build resonators, which you can do cheap
if you don´t know how to calculate, throw sines through the room and walk zeros and hills, mark, build
resonate them in the corners
than absorb higher frequencies, but be carefull with not drying out the room
or diuffuse...
best would be to build a golden ratio room,
get a perfect bornello criteria and so on...
well, he´s asking for recording some vocals first time....maybe it´s really ok with sm7b and reflection filter (and some mattres in the corner)
#18
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
With all due respect - I mentioned mattresses in the corner as an absolute minimum room treatment option. It's better than nothing at all.
No, it is not. It is possibly the worst thing you can do.

If you want a dead, muffled, woolly, tubby sound put up mattresses.

Quote:
But in a bad sounding room, any room sound you can absorb is better than not absorbing it.
Not true at all. See above.

Quote:
If you have a lot of money to treat a room, sure - spend it on treatment. I'm just saying, you could buy a very credible rig for less than what that might cost.
A mediocre rig in a good room will sound better than a great rig in a bad room.

Quote:
Whatever you get, you'll want to hear the low-end.
Correction: You'll want to hear the low end in balance with everything else. Which is why PROPER treatment is a necessity. Proper treatment need not be all that expensive. Talk to Ethan.
#19
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $$KWV$$ View Post
hi everybody!!
i m a mc from spain and i ve been rapping now for some years and i think its time to create my own recording studio. so i m thinking about how to make everything and which things i need for a good start.
i ve got a good computer with 4gb ram and a good sound card so i just need a good and cheap microphone, a mixer, active monitors, and some tipps to know which is the best selection!!=)

i ve thought about rode nt a-1, mxl 990 or 960, some shure mics, a t.bone, but don´t know which is the best one and i need one under 200 euros/$



if you want to go the cheap route for your music, then i suggest getting a cheap program like fruity loops or something to sketch out beats, then take the rest of your money to a professional studio when you are ready to record it.
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13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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John E - if you are recording rap vocals then 'dead' is not a bad thing. Look, this is about bare bones budget choices. I've already agreed that proper room treatment is nice.

Reflexion filters and Ethans untuned broadband panels are not that far removed from squabs of foam (aka mattresses). Foam is often misrepresented by certain individuals who have certain products to sell. But ultimately, there are various materials that provide absorption, and they all tend to trap more highs than lows. To trap bass its about depth of absorbant, strategic placement, as well as other solutions such as Helmotz resonators etc etc. Gets expensive very quickly if you want to do it right.

Ethan is a strange dude and I don't agree with everything he believes in. On the bell-curve of normality, he choses to position himself at one particular end. Somebody has to balance out the audiophools selling magic cables and stuff, and Ethan does a good job of exposing the quackery. But basically he chooses to defend crappy low end products, and uses the same arguments to try to prove that high end gear is not necessary. There is a point where - if you choose to monitor everything through cheap gear as Ethan does - that you really can't tell the good stuff from the bad stuff, and I guess everything does all sound equally bad.

Ethan has a product to sell - never forget that. AFAIK it's a good product, but as a consumer you need to make your own informed choices.

For rap, you pretty much need a very dead space. Things are very different if you want to record jazz or folk or country or rock, with real instruments etc.
#21
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $$KWV$$ View Post
hi everybody!!
i m a mc from spain and i ve been rapping now for some years and i think its time to create my own recording studio. so i m thinking about how to make everything and which things i need for a good start.
i ve got a good computer with 4gb ram and a good sound card so i just need a good and cheap microphone, a mixer, active monitors, and some tipps to know which is the best selection!!=)

i ve thought about rode nt a-1, mxl 990 or 960, some shure mics, a t.bone, but don´t know which is the best one and i need one under 200 euros/$




best cheap rap-recording equipment

here u have¡¡¡¡ hahahaha
Just kidding man

Peace
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#22
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
John E - if you are recording rap vocals then 'dead' is not a bad thing. Look, this is about bare bones budget choices. I've already agreed that proper room treatment is nice.

Reflexion filters and Ethans untuned broadband panels are not that far removed from squabs of foam (aka mattresses). Foam is often misrepresented by certain individuals who have certain products to sell. But ultimately, there are various materials that provide absorption, and they all tend to trap more highs than lows. To trap bass its about depth of absorbant, strategic placement, as well as other solutions such as Helmotz resonators etc etc. Gets expensive very quickly if you want to do it right.

Ethan is a strange dude and I don't agree with everything he believes in. On the bell-curve of normality, he choses to position himself at one particular end. Somebody has to balance out the audiophools selling magic cables and stuff, and Ethan does a good job of exposing the quackery. But basically he chooses to defend crappy low end products, and uses the same arguments to try to prove that high end gear is not necessary. There is a point where - if you choose to monitor everything through cheap gear as Ethan does - that you really can't tell the good stuff from the bad stuff, and I guess everything does all sound equally bad.

Ethan has a product to sell - never forget that. AFAIK it's a good product, but as a consumer you need to make your own informed choices.

For rap, you pretty much need a very dead space. Things are very different if you want to record jazz or folk or country or rock, with real instruments etc.
I'd say we pretty much agree about Ethan. IMO he's a great authority on acoustics. I recommend him because on that subject he pretty much agrees with me () and because he has a lot of good material on the subject of room treatment available on his site. I'm also a fan of the Auralex site (and some of their products)

Concerning Ethan's other ideas, well, it's like asking a cardiologist about brain surgery. He's certainly entitled to his opinion, but I wouldn't want to stake my life on it. (Sorry, Ethan!)

It actually isn't that difficult to construct your own helmholtz resonators - there are plans available on the net. You can make a simple one out of perf board and 2/4s with some rock wool inside (or acoustical fiberglass).

What works a lot better than mattresses is acoustical office divider panels which, although quite expensive new, can often be picked up dirt cheap at industrial surplus dealers or bankruptcy auctions. You need to make sure that you get the acoustical ones that are filled with acoustical fiberglass (you can tell them because they're a little soft when you push on them), not the cheaper ones that are hard to the touch. Sometimes if you're lucky you can even find them in dumpsters when an office building is being remodeled.
#23
13th February 2010
Old 13th February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgilboe View Post
Get an MPC2000 off the street from a guy who got one that "fell off the truck".

Find out what mic your friends use, and pocket it when you're over there.

Jack someone who has cool headphones on the train at 2am.

Shoplift some lava lamps from a pawn shop.

Grab a casio keyboard from an unsuspecting street musician playing in a low-traffic area.

Can't get cheaper than that!



I'm just completely joshing ya!

LOL

dont forget the dollor bins that are outside of record stores.
$$KWV$$
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#24
17th February 2010
Old 17th February 2010
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i´ve dicided wich things i´m going to buy:
mic: Audi Technica 2020
soundcard: edirol or cakewalk 25 ex or something like this =)
than i gonna build a mic"room" myself and i´ll put matresses into.

is this a good selection??you said that shure is a good mic but some people told me that the 2020 would be a great mic and a lot betta than the shure mics.
#25
17th February 2010
Old 17th February 2010
  #25
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you said that shure is a good mic but some people told me that the 2020 would be a great mic and a lot betta than the shure mics.
"some" people obviously know better - I'd go with them.

/sarcasm.
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