Kiwi Mic question

[srmd22]

Got a new (used) Kiwi mic. Sounds great, but there is a funny noise when handling the mic-- not plugged in or recording, just handling it. When I took it out of the box I heard a slight clunking noise, and felt the vibration. It feels like something is loose inside the capsule. Is this just how they are built?

I back to backed it with my other large diaphragm condenser (a cheopo). The output is close, actually the Kiwi is a bit less. The sound of the Kiwi is gorgeous, much nicer and smoother then the other (akg 3000). Just want to make sure it is not broken. I do have to crank the preamp up about 3/4 (Robbie going into 002 rack line in) and I still don't get pounding levels, but that is pretty much the same with my AKG. Seems like the digirack pre's actually have more gain (but don't sound nearly as good).

Anyway, bottom line, is it normal to have a seemingly loose doodad in the capsule of the Kiwi-- something I just never knew about high end mic? Or do I need to send it back (if I even can)?

[VWYF11]

I don't think my Kiwi makes any clunking sound when I move it around. The clunking sound is coming from the capsule though?

[srmd22]

Originally Posted by VWYF11

I don't think my Kiwi makes any clunking sound when I move it around. The clunking sound is coming from the capsule though?

Yes, it is a very light but distinct sound, most pronounced if I (gently) tip the mic backwards or forward; or, if it is horizontal, and I roll it (gently) so that the front of the capsule facing up is turned to face down, or vice verse.

I wasn't sure at first, but this can't be normal. I have that sinking feeling.

[VWYF11]

Maybe someone else will chime in but I'm pretty sure thats not normal.

[srmd22]

Originally Posted by VWYF11

Maybe someone else will chime in but I'm pretty sure thats not normal.

Oh hell no. I am a little pissed off atm. I got it used for a very good price, but it was billed as in "excellent condition." Tell me, does this look like excellent condition? Not to me:



You can see the rubber tube mounts came undone-- I shudder to think how.

I fixed them (very easy):



And what about this, insult to injury?



Well, it sounds fine (great actually), and I can use a pliers to pick my input pattern (although with 9 of them, it'll be kinda hard to be sure which one I am on), and it would just be a hassle to ship it all back (came with 2 x 20 foot kiwi cables, shock mount and a decent boom stand). Then I would have to go out and pay $2k for a new one, so I am keeping it. A little miffed though.

[VWYF11]

Did it ship without the capsule screws attached? I imagine without the screws attached there could have been that problem with the capsule. You should see if Blue will send you the dial for the pickup patterns cause thats an awesome part of the mic. It's a great mic though so hopefully you have good luck with it from here.

[mfischman3]

Yup, you have to ship/transport these mics (dragonfly, kiwi, mouse, etc) with the capsule retention screws in place otherwise the capsule is just going to bang around the entire time. And sometimes snapping it back in place isn't the only problem:(

Dealing with a similar issue at the moment, but BLUE's customer service is great if it comes to that.

[srmd22]

No, I don't think there were any retention screws. I didn't see any damage to the capsule, for what little that is worth, and the mic sounds good.

I can't believe this guy shipped it sans screws and sans knob. I emailed blue to see if they can sell me an extra knob.

What sort of signs of any potential problems from shipping without the screws can I look for-- I guess I might end up having to pay for a repair if necessary (although it seems ok now, knock on wood).

[hazelmossobrien]

Yea this is typical. Blue has a floating capsule design and apparently it's easily jostled loose. I have on two separate occasions bought used Blue mic's (blueberry and dragonfly) on ebay and both came in the mail with the capsule completely detached from the rubber mounts loose in the casing. Not trusting capsules that had banged around their housing, I sent them both back and vowed to never buy used Blue mic's again.

When Blue mic's ship from the factory they have pins (or screws?) that hold the capsule in place for shipment. People probably discard these with the rest of the packaging material. A used Blue mic from ebay is always in jeopardy, better yet, unless the pins were saved I promise the capsule will be free in the casing if you buy a Blue mic from ebay.

[andrewenson]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

Yea this is typical. Blue has a floating capsule design and apparently it's easily jostled loose. I have on two separate occasions bought used Blue mic's (blueberry and dragonfly) on ebay and both came in the mail with the capsule completely detached from the rubber mounts loose in the casing. Not trusting capsules that had banged around their housing, I sent them both back and vowed to never buy used Blue mic's again.

When Blue mic's ship from the factory they have pins (or screws?) that hold the capsule in place for shipment. People probably discard these with the rest of the packaging material. A used Blue mic from ebay is always in jeopardy, better yet, unless the pins were saved I promise the capsule will be free in the casing if you buy a Blue mic from ebay.

thats unfortunate. i bought my used kiwi and it came with the screws in it.

[srmd22]

Yikes, well, I sure wish I knew enough to ask about that before I made the purchase.

All I can say is that when I inspected the capsule, the wires were fast and the solders secure. The capsule was loose in the grill, but appears undamaged. I don't really know how to tell when there is damage, however, unless it is visible.

The thing seems made pretty solidly, so I think I am going to take the risk and keep it (unless I get some serious urging not to). Tough call though. Wish I had a bit more experience with this sort of high end gear.

I have to say, I have bought a few expensive pieces used like this, and overall had good experiences.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by mfischman3

BLUE's customer service is great if it comes to that.

Thats debatable... By many people around here...

Good luck.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by srmd22

The thing seems made pretty solidly, so I think I am going to take the risk and keep it (unless I get some serious urging not to). Tough call though. Wish I had a bit more experience with this sort of high end gear.

I sent mine back not becuase they didn't work fine, but because I didn't want to fool with the potential of realizing the capsule is damaged because of this mishandling down the road.

If you can't see the capsule as scratched or dinged it's probably fine. To me, the missing pattern selector would alone be enough to send it back. I don't take an awful lot of shit from ebay sellers who misrepresent items.

Did you get a screaming deal on it? if you didn't you should insist the seller offer a partial reimbursement. Nothing big, just enough to pay for a new polar pattern switch and for the capsule fiasco. He could have seriously damaged your capsule, after all it was your mic the minute you Paypal'd him his money. He had no right to send your mic without the pattern switch or pins to protect the capsule. Total negligence!!

[andrewenson]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

Did you get a screaming deal on it? if you didn't you should insist the seller offer a partial reimbursement.

i agree. i got my used kiwi for 1k on the dot. and its in perfect condition. shockmount seemed like it was packed into a mattress then shipped to me. same with the mic. everything is in perfect condition and it was the exact mic used on one of Needtobreathe's albums :D
teehee. well i'm not a fan of them though... oh well

[srmd22]

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

I sent mine back not becuase they didn't work fine, but because I didn't want to fool with the potential of realizing the capsule is damaged because of this mishandling down the road.

If you can't see the capsule as scratched or dinged it's probably fine. To me, the missing pattern selector would alone be enough to send it back. I don't take an awful lot of shit from ebay sellers who misrepresent items.

Did you get a screaming deal on it? if you didn't you should insist the seller offer a partial reimbursement. Nothing big, just enough to pay for a new polar pattern switch and for the capsule fiasco. He could have seriously damaged your capsule, after all it was your mic the minute you Paypal'd him his money. He had no right to send your mic without the pattern switch or pins to protect the capsule. Total negligence!!

I agree with you, and my first impulse was to just ship it back; but I got a pretty good deal and it came with a hundred $ worth of accessories. It was $1300 for the mic (w/ shock mount), 2 kiwi cables and a decent boom stand. I figure if I ship it back, I am out shipping (both ways - about $60 for everything) and then a new $2K mic (because now that I have heard it, I MUST own one). Even on ebay, I haven't seen one going for less then this, and most are starting at $1600 and up, it seems, atm.

I did not examine both sides of the diaphram, because that would have entailed taking of both sides of the capsule grill, and what I did examine really looks pristine. One does wonder what sort of jostling (or worse) would result in both the transducer housing coming loose and the patter switch, ummm, disappearing. I expect it doesn't take too much for the transducer part to come loose, and the switch probably went missing in the original owners studio at some point, by pulling it off-- as happens with so many vintage guitar amp knobs.

Sigh.

[srmd22]

Originally Posted by mfischman3

Yup, you have to ship/transport these mics (dragonfly, kiwi, mouse, etc) with the capsule retention screws in place otherwise the capsule is just going to bang around the entire time. And sometimes snapping it back in place isn't the only problem:(

Dealing with a similar issue at the moment, but BLUE's customer service is great if it comes to that.

mfischman3, was there any additional damage to your unit? Which mic did you get, and what was the problem?

[Schmacko]

Chances are, your capsule is probably ok since it wasn't fully dislodged from the inner mounts - it looks like the capsule was still connected to 1 of the 3. I would still take a look at the back of the capsule though.

Your low output level using your Robbie is most likely related to the Robbie rather than the Kiwi. Having to turn the Robbie's gain up to 3/4+ just to get a decent level is an indicator that the pre's potentiometer is defective and needs to be replaced by BLUE. This was a very common problem with the early runs of Robbie pres - I had it too.

Go test your mic with another pre.

[Larry Mal]

Can I ask, who did you buy the mic from? The reason is, I recently bought a Blue mic on ebay and when it came to me it was DOA. I'm wondering if it's possible that someone is selling Blue factory rejects as working- let's make it private though, and please send me a personal message, unless you bought it from a company, I bought it from an individual.

[srmd22]

Originally Posted by Schmacko

Chances are, your capsule is probably ok since it wasn't fully dislodged from the inner mounts - it looks like the capsule was still connected to 1 of the 3. I would still take a look at the back of the capsule though.

Your low output level using your Robbie is most likely related to the Robbie rather than the Kiwi. Having to turn the Robbie's gain up to 3/4+ just to get a decent level is an indicator that the pre's potentiometer is defective and needs to be replaced by BLUE. This was a very common problem with the early runs of Robbie pres - I had it too.

Go test your mic with another pre.

Great advice. I will follow those suggestions.

[mfischman3]

Dragonfly... while it doesn't appear to the naked eye that there's any damage to the capsule the mic just didn't sound right at all when compared to some others of the same model that I have; and there was also an additional noise issue... this is my current headache

Basically, these just need to be shipped correctly. I just had a Mouse taken care of by BLUE and my experience with their service was perfect. I'm sure experiences vary though.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by srmd22

I agree with you, and my first impulse was to just ship it back; but I got a pretty good deal and it came with a hundred $ worth of accessories.

Then you should ask for partial reimbursement! I'd say $150 is fair. $50 for the pattern switch (at least!) and $100 to have the capsule examined by Blue or another professional. I'd still pursue partial reimbursement even if you don't have it inspected because you deem it functioning normal. A good ebay seller will understand. If he refuses then threaten Paypal action (even if its an empty threat) and surely he'll come through. Its kind of lame if you sell on ebay a lot like I do, but the buyer has all the power in ebay transactions.

[srmd22]

I think I have good news. I talked to a guy at Blue who really seems to know his stuff. He said that this is a very common problem with Blue mics (as did another poster, above), and that there is a pretty high risk of damage in this type of circumstance. HOWEVER: he said that if I do not see any damage on the capsule or wiring, and the mic sounds fine, then it is likely to be fine-- meaning fully functional and damage free. He told me to do the "breath test," which is breath moderately heavily on the mic and listen for pops or clicks from the speakers. This would indicate a small puncture, which can lead to moisture collecting between the diaphragm and back plate (whatever they are). I did this, and heard no artifacts. So I think the mic is good.

I did notice that it's output is-- maybe-- very slightly less then my cheapo AKG C3000. However, the sound is much smoother. Tried it with a couple of preamps. For some reason, I was expecting the mic to have much higher sensitivity or loudness then my other condenser, but now that I think about it, maybe that is just rumour (I had read a post somewhere where someone said more expensive large diaphragm condenser mics have more inherent gain or sensitivity then cheaper ones?)

So that is where I am at. I am thinking of taking the above posters advice and asking for a partial refund from the seller, for the knob and the inspection-- I think the seller would be amenable to this, he has been very communicative and flexible via email so far. He claims he doesn't know what could have happened to the knob, that it was there when he packed it up (suspicious, but who knows?). Anyway, he is perfectly willing to take the whole thing back for a full refund, if I decide to go that route.

However, I may put the decision off until after this weekend, because, well, my wife is about to have a baby!

Meanwhile, I a/b'd the Robbie preamp with the Digi 002, and I have to say, the digi 002 has more gain at each position of the gain knob, and considerable more from about 6:00 to about 11:00 (or, say, about 6/10 to 9/10 gain). When close to max, the Robbie kicks in and is plenty loud, but it seems like I shouldn't have to crank it to at least 3/4 gain to get a useable vocal sound-- but maybe I am wrong, and that is just how it is built. The guy at Blue mics said I can go ahead and send it back for a free service, and they will check it out, so I may do that. I created 2 .wav files with the Robbie and Digi pre's back to back, all other settings the same, same mic, but I am afraid the files are probably too big to post here (about 9megs each). I tried to send them to the Blue repair guy, but don't know if it worked.

[Tube World]

Glad things are working out with your Kiwi. It's a great microphone.

[hazelmossobrien]

Originally Posted by srmd22

I did notice that it's output is-- maybe-- very slightly less then my cheapo AKG C3000. However, the sound is much smoother. Tried it with a couple of preamps. For some reason, I was expecting the mic to have much higher sensitivity or loudness then my other condenser, but now that I think about it, maybe that is just rumour (I had read a post somewhere where someone said more expensive large diaphragm condenser mics have more inherent gain or sensitivity then cheaper ones?)

I bought a TLM-49 (ive since sold it) having previously owned a couple TLM-103's and a U87ai. I was vastly disappointed at the lower output of the TLM-49, seeing as how hot the output of the 103 and U87 are. However, once I got over the output difference, I realized how smooth and decent the TLM-49 is. Our brains perceive louder as better, so it's always important to level match gear when A/B testing. Output
level of condensers is completely dependent on the mic's internal amp. I have personally found that higher output condensers are more likely to sound shrill. I have never used an AKG C3000 or a Kiwi so I have no reference to how hot the output should be.

Originally Posted by srmd22

So that is where I am at. I am thinking of taking the above posters advice and asking for a partial refund from the seller, for the knob and the inspection-- I think the seller would be amenable to this, he has been very communicative and flexible via email so far.

thumbsup

Originally Posted by srmd22

However, I may put the decision off until after this weekend, because, well, my wife is about to have a baby!

congratulations!

Originally Posted by srmd22

Meanwhile, I a/b'd the Robbie preamp with the Digi 002, and I have to say, the digi 002 has more gain at each position of the gain knob, and considerable more from about 6:00 to about 11:00 (or, say, about 6/10 to 9/10 gain).

I used to own a Robbie preamp and a 002. There is no way in hell your Robbie is functioning properly. The Robbie has a maximun gain of 68db - otherwise known as lots o' gain! The Robbie shouldn't even need to be halfway up for an average vocal session with a condenser mic. In regards to gain and tone, the differences between the 002 preamps and the Robbie should be unmistakable

Originally Posted by srmd22

When close to max, the Robbie kicks in and is plenty loud, but it seems like I shouldn't have to crank it to at least 3/4 gain to get a useable vocal sound-- but maybe I am wrong, and that is just how it is built.

There is a big step up in gain on the Robbie at 2 or 3 o'clock, thats probably what you're hearing. Its not normal to need to get that far unless you're using an SM7 or an RE20 or some other low output dynamic. Def get that Robbie serviced, especially if they offered to do it free of charge. You will be thrilled, the Robbie is an awesome sounding preamp.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by mfischman3

Yup, you have to ship/transport these mics (dragonfly, kiwi, mouse, etc) with the capsule retention screws in place otherwise the capsule is just going to bang around the entire time. And sometimes snapping it back in place isn't the only problem :(

I recieved a Kiwi in which the capsule had come loose, center screw had come out, and the center wire had torn up the diaphragm.

Originally Posted by hazelmossobrien

I used to own a Robbie preamp and a 002. There is no way in hell your Robbie is functioning properly. The Robbie has a maximun gain of 68db - otherwise known as lots o' gain! The Robbie shouldn't even need to be halfway up for an average vocal session with a condenser mic. In regards to gain and tone, the differences between the 002 preamps and the Robbie should be unmistakable

Not necessarily. I've used two of the older Robbies (whose gain taper was a little different) and for moderate volume vocals, I would often need to have the gain at 75% open for use with a U87, 90% for an SM57, and 95% for an SM7. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with his.

Originally Posted by srmd22

When close to max, the Robbie kicks in and is plenty loud, but it seems like I shouldn't have to crank it to at least 3/4 gain to get a useable vocal sound-- .

Yep, that's exactly how mine were. They would have a slow taper until the end of the gain knob, then it hauled ass and was hard to adjust. Others have reported the same on the older units.

[srmd22]

The story continues....
I heard back from Mike at Blue Microphones. He listened to my audio files and said the Robbie Pre definitely sounds low, and I should send it in for a service. I considered sending it back to the vendor for an exchange (as it is brand new), but I would actually feel better knowing Blue Microphones gave it a going over (although one would think they would have prior to it's distribution). Also, this way I cut out the risk, however small, that the unit I receive in exchange has the same defect.

By the way, I don't know for sure if the decreased gain in mine is more then what Bowie described for his pre's in the above post-- I wonder if yours were defective too? I say this, because mine is usable, and I could easily see just cranking the thing and using it that way.

Regarding the Kiwi, I believe it is ok, but I have decided to either send it in to Blue for service and knob replacement, if the seller will agree to pay, or send it back for a refund. I just don't want the worry that it will suffer some malfunction related to the shipping issues at some point in the future. Also, I want to be sure the output I am hearing from the mic is correct, and not attenuated somehow, possible secondary to shipping or previous mishandling. If I can't get it serviced, I'd rather just pay a bunch more for a new one and know it is pristine and warrantied.

Quite a saga for what I planned on being a smoothly transacted acquisition of an awesome preamp and mic for immediate gratification/experimentation!

I really appreciate all the advice in this thread. It was extremely helpful to me in thinking through how to handle these issues. Thanks for taking the time to post.

[BOWIE]

Originally Posted by srmd22

By the way, I don't know for sure if the decreased gain in mine is more then what Bowie described for his pre's in the above post-- I wonder if yours were defective too? I say this, because mine is usable, and I could easily see just cranking the thing and using it that way.

I didn't hear the clips so it may be a separate issue from yours. Here's my story;
I read in several places online where people said that they had the early Robbie w/ the akward gain knob and sent it back to Blue for the newer style. Accordingto these folks, Blue had told them that there was an issue with some of the pots/attenuators they used.

So, I called Blue and said I would like to have the same done to mine. The arrogant, rude little ********* I talked to told me that I shouldn't believe everything I read and if I wanted to send it in he would look at it at my cost. He also told me that it would be a waste of my time and his and that I shouldn't worry about what people say in internet communities.

At that point, I swore off ever buying another Blue product (simply because I didn't want to ever have to deal with that guy again) and assumed that my Robbies were ok.

Mine may not have been problematic like yours (I didn't listen to the clips) but I made that post just so that people who own the Robbie and have to open up the gain more than halfway on a vocal won't think theirs needs to go back for repair.
I don't own one any more (though I do love the Robbie!) but would love to hear how this turns out for you so please keep me updated.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

I didn't hear the clips so it may be a separate issue from yours. Here's my story;
I read in several places online where people said that they had the early Robbie w/ the akward gain knob and sent it back to Blue for the newer style. Blue had old them that there was an issue with some of the pots/attenuators they used.

So, I called Blue and said I would like to have the same done to mine. The arrogant, rude little sonovabitch I talked to told me that I shouldn't believe everything I read and if I wanted to send it in he would look at it at my cost. He also told me that it would be a waste of my time and his and that I shouldn't worry about what people say in internet communities.

At that point, I swore off ever buying another Blue product (simply because I didn't want to ever have to deal with that guy again) and assumed that my Robbies were ok.

Mine may not have been problematic like yours (I didn't listen to the clips) but I made that post just so that people who own the Robbie and have to open up the gain more than halfway on a vocal won't think theirs needs to go back for repair.
I don't own one any more (though I do love the Robbie!) but would love to hear how this turns out for you so please keep me updated.

i know Skipper is not the primary owner any longer, but you can bet your back side i will be alerting him to this thread, and your post.
Skipper has ALWAYS been their for me when needed and that has always made me want to share my love for the BLUE mics.
if the new bunch can not extend the same quality of service, then something will change.

[YRLK]

Originally Posted by srmd22

Well, it sounds fine (great actually), and I can use a pliers to pick my input pattern (although with 9 of them, it'll be kinda hard to be sure which one I am on), and it would just be a hassle to ship it all back (came with 2 x 20 foot kiwi cables, shock mount and a decent boom stand). Then I would have to go out and pay $2k for a new one, so I am keeping it. A little miffed though.

Not sure if she's still there, but call Blue and ask for Maggie. She should be able to hook you up with a part to replace your polar pattern selector. You don't want to be putting pliers into your mic all the time.

Kiwi's a good mic. I miss mine sometimes. It was a favorite of mine on acoustic guitar.

Brad

[Lifted]

Originally Posted by mfischman3

Yup, you have to ship/transport these mics (dragonfly, kiwi, mouse, etc) with the capsule retention screws in place otherwise the capsule is just going to bang around the entire time. And sometimes snapping it back in place isn't the only problem:(

Dealing with a similar issue at the moment, but BLUE's customer service is great if it comes to that.

Cosign to this.

I had received a brand new Blue Bluebird with a broken shockmount. Emailed Blue. They have asked for the pictures and send me out 2 shockmounts!

1 was the old type format (BlueNest) and the other one was a brand new design that would let me screw the mic into the shockmount, so now I can flip the mic upside down for recording.

Thanks guys!