Study shows Digital Music is too expensive

[MarsBot]

People tend to blame pirating for the problems in the music industry, but as this study shows, it's just one aspect of the problem. Distribution costs have fallen dramatically, but the record companies haven't passed those savings on to the consumer (surprise!). This article suggests that record companies and artists would make a lot more money if they lowered the price of digital downloads:

Study: digital music is too expensive : Christopher Null : Yahoo! Tech

[robertshaw]

When you really think about it yeah mp3 should be like .35 - .50 cents. A cd is between $10 - $15 depending at the store. That includes a tangible cd, jewel case artwork and all the invisible distribution costs which like 3 - 4 people probably take a slice of that. It still ends up being only like 1.00 per song depending on the amount of songs. If not for all the distribution costs and record store profits it would be like $7 - $10.

Bulk CD's w/ artwork actual cost between .25 an $2.00 depending on amount of sleeve colors, on disc printing etc... And that is in low low quantity like 5000 or less. If a band ships gold the price of the CD w/package is like .5-.10 cents. Why is an mp3 $1.00 a song then? when you only get this crappy sounding encoded music file? that you can't resell or even look at or touch? Boycott mp3s Buy CD

mp3s are a ripoff

[mobius.media]

Distribution and manufacturing costs were a tiny fraction of a $14 CD's costs, so actually, no.

[PDC]

Those studies are stupid. Of course consumers will say anything costs too much. I find it funny that people here who need to make money to buy the gear to make the music often think that music is too expensive.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

Distribution and manufacturing costs were a tiny fraction of a $14 CD's costs, so actually, no.

I used to make $2-$3 profit ea when I sold major label cds plus I know my dist was making a couple bucks and he wasn't even getting them direct always maybe it has changed this was 10 years ago.

When I did duplication I used to charge 1.50 per cd in quantity of 1000. That included
1 color on disk and a 4 color 2 fold sleeve. Cost me .25 a copy from the CD house. and about .25
ea from the printer. This is before glass master and printing setup costs which varied.

I don't know what the processes are these days or what it costs I'm sure it is higher but lots of unsigned bands still do cds. Indy labels make like 6-8k per band per 1000 units sold usually.
Bands get screwed.

[MarsBot]

Originally Posted by PDC

Those studies are stupid. Of course consumers will say anything costs too much. I find it funny that people here who need to make money to buy the gear to make the music often think that music is too expensive.

Actually these studies are smart, not stupid. It's basic economics - the law of supply and demand. What the guy is saying is that if record companies (and artists) lower the prices of digital downloads THEY WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY. So if you want more money to buy more gear, then lower the prices of downloads and you'll sell a LOT more music.

[John Eppstein]

Everything costs too much these days. It's called inflation.

Why, when I was a boy.........(sound of grumpy old man bitching.......)

[dysenterygary]

I have never and will never pay $1.00 for an mp3! But if the price was half or a quarter of that I guarantee that would be very different. Myspace Records releases their artists albums for $2.99- $3.99 when they first come out, that makes sense. And when they release an album I want I gladly pay that amount. So I definitely agree that if they lowered their prices they would see dramatic increases in sales and profits.

[mattg082]

honestly since about 2005 i don't know a single person really that doesn't get there music for free. even if they don't know how to download a torrent a friend gives it to them. honestly i like cd and dvd music as i love hearing things as they were meant too. mp3 sucks but it's small and people don't seem to care as it's not like they have some super audio system to tell the difference.

i did a bounce last night and the original was 96k 24 bit to mp3 320 48k using the apogee dither and if i was a consumer i wouldn't notice much at all. but yeah charging the same price for a mp3 as a cd quality or better is a rip off. i'll purchase cd's and dvd cd all day long but these prices for mp3 low quality with freq cuts in the end product suck.

[work2do]

u folks aren't factoring the costs involved in making the music itself. u cant just give it away for next to nothing when u have spent $ on producers, songs, engineering, studio time, promotions, radio, video, etc. Alot more monetary investment goes into making an album besides plastic cases and metal discs which is minute in comparison to the other costs.

iTunes has quickly become the #1 retailer of music and even if they raised their prices they still would be the #1 retailer. 99 cents is sh*t in comparison to the $4.99 price we used to get on singles.

There is no money now for artist development and the other aspects that were once a staple of the music game when i first got in. Now .99 a single is too much? That's bullsh*t.

Returns get any smaller and I mine as well fold up my major distributed label and open a bar in the Caribbean.

[The Real MC]

Originally Posted by konkaos

u folks aren't factoring the costs involved in making the music itself. u cant just give it away for next to nothing when u have spent $ on producers

Producers are puppets of the labels and they interfere with the art of music by forcing the label's view of music onto the product. It's all "flavor of the month". The reason many of us have stopped listening to radio is because it all sounds the same.

There is a lot of good music that ISN'T getting played on mainstream radio and that is why we have sought out music on the net.

songs

Then quit signing up pretty faces who have no songwriting or singing talent. Quit promoting songs that are the same tired patterns or lyric themes. There's a lot of good songwriting that is not getting on the radio.

engineering

Hello, 1970 called they want their tie die shirts back. Welcome to the 21st century where home studios reign, where home produced music CAN get popular.

studio time

Studio time has gotten too high because they are located in extremely high real estate such as LA, Nashville, NYC. Today's technology is mobile and industries have a long history of moving to more favorable economic areas. With our advances in audio technology and how it has become more mobile, you guys remain stuck in the high priced cities. Take notes from the rest of the industries and MOVE.

promotions

Payola is no longer relevant, see radio below.

TV? I quit watching it, too many ads and the programming is poor.

Grammy or other award shows? Irrelevant, most of us quit watching it. Same talentless pretty faces on radio.

The net is your new promotion vehicle. Adopt it or die.

radio

Radio is no longer relevant. Clearchannel and others broadcast from a central location using a central playlist. The playlist rotates on a short cycle and we hear the same sequence of songs every few hours. The variety of genres is extremely limited. We hate it.

video

MTV is no longer relevant. It's been twenty years since I bought an album because I heard a song on MTV. Today the "M" means anything BUT music. They had movie awards, game shows, talk shows, sitcoms, sport rallies - the only music they play with the precious remaining program time is hip hop, rap, or movie ads disguised as videos. With the poor offerings in music styles, most of us have abandoned MTV. We hate it.

Alot more monetary investment goes into making an album besides plastic cases and metal discs which is minute in comparison to the other costs.

Judas, no wonder the industry is a dinosaur.

[Toro]

Originally Posted by The Real MC

Producers are puppets of the labels and they interfere with the art of music by forcing the label's view of music onto the product. It's all "flavor of the month". The reason many of us have stopped listening to radio is because it all sounds the same.
Judas, no wonder the industry is a dinosaur.

So what are you saying? you need mayor labels in order for you to buy music? there's so much independent good music out there you can buy. I think the question is, do you support art? do you give artist money so they can eat and continue to make great music? do you support Levis, car dealers? drug dealers? is not rocket science dude. and please pardon my english i'm not a native english speaker

[RasCricket]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I used to make $2-$3 profit ea when I sold major label cds plus I know my dist was making a couple bucks and he wasn't even getting them direct always maybe it has changed this was 10 years ago.

When I did duplication I used to charge 1.50 per cd in quantity of 1000. That included
1 color on disk and a 4 color 2 fold sleeve. Cost me .25 a copy from the CD house. and about .25
ea from the printer. This is before glass master and printing setup costs which varied.

I don't know what the processes are these days or what it costs I'm sure it is higher but lots of unsigned bands still do cds. Indy labels make like 6-8k per band per 1000 units sold usually.
Bands get screwed.

All respects, man

But you were "replicating", not "duplicating". When I saw "duplication I used to charge 1.50 per cd in quantity of 1000" my jaw dropped.
I was feeling sorry for the laser that was to be duplicating those 1000 discs. But thats not the case here, thankfully.

Whenever a glass master is involved, that is replication.

Burning a CD in your computer tower with a laser is duplication.

The amount of errors inherent to duplication is why people who need 1000 perfect copies go with replication.

Youre a smart one, so ya probably already knew this, just throwing out there for others.

[Robert Randolph]

I'm surprised this thread doesn't have 10x the posts it does.


As far as I'm concerned, I haven't purchased a major label record in about 10 years. Hell, I rarely even pay for most of the music I have. There's so many great artists out there giving away great music for free. I'll support them over people who think they deserve my money. When I put out money for a band/artist it's not because they 'deserve it' just for existing, it's because they enriched my life somehow. I support people who earn it, as I expect people to treat me likewise.


Most industries see a lack of sales and subsequently strive to make their product better, advertise better, regain consumer trust etc... The music industry just whines and vilifies their customer base. It's no wonders the titanic is sinking, and with similar epic amount of hubris no less.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by PDC

Those studies are stupid. Of course consumers will say anything costs too much. I find it funny that people here who need to make money to buy the gear to make the music often think that music is too expensive.

Right the F on.

You people quibble over .25cents like a bunch of bums.

By the way, this "article" reads like your average GS post on the subject - which of course means it was written in exactly the time it took to press the keys on the keyboard. It also comes from Wired magazine, who are so scared of being uncool that they support the destruction of intellectual property rights. I was one of the original subscribers to that mag but it quickly turned into a P.O.S. - constantly trying to put a snarky "better tomorrow" and "milk and honey" futurist spin on everything. It's about as hard-hitting and accurate as the Today show.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by MarsBot

Actually these studies are smart, not stupid. It's basic economics - the law of supply and demand. What the guy is saying is that if record companies (and artists) lower the prices of digital downloads THEY WILL MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY. So if you want more money to buy more gear, then lower the prices of downloads and you'll sell a LOT more music.

Wrong. It's more complicated than that. People who think .99 is a fine price for MP3's don't really care if it's .88 or 1.29 or 1.49. People who think .99 is too much are just as likely to find .35 to be too much. In both cases the demand is pretty inflexible.

As it is, people who think .99 is too much aren't likely to buy any more music if it was .89 or .79 - so they have cut themselves out of the consumption equation. It's more likely that the labels would make more money by raising their prices than by lowering because they'd have to cut VERY deep down to attract those penny-pinchers who feel .99 is a king's ransom.

Those customers too are the same ones who get lots of stuff for free from pirate sites and as we all know it's hard to compete with free.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

The music industry just whines and vilifies their customer base. It's no wonders the titanic is sinking, and with similar epic amount of hubris no less.

This is such old tired BS. The people who are vilified are the ones that stealing - that doesn't count as a customer does it? And the "music industry" puts out music that people are willing to pay for - if you aren't willing to pay than you can't complain about what you are served, can you?

Also, the whining I hear is from the likes of these posts. If you don't like how the "industry"is, then be part of a solution. Don't just sit on the couch complaining that your MP3s should be .9 cheaper.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by The Real MC

Radio is no longer relevant. Clearchannel and others broadcast from a central location using a central playlist. The playlist rotates on a short cycle and we hear the same sequence of songs every few hours. The variety of genres is extremely limited. We hate it.



MTV is no longer relevant. It's been twenty years since I bought an album because I heard a song on MTV. Today the "M" means anything BUT music. They had movie awards, game shows, talk shows, sitcoms, sport rallies - the only music they play with the precious remaining program time is hip hop, rap, or movie ads disguised as videos. With the poor offerings in music styles, most of us have abandoned MTV. We hate it.

Dude - you are the problem. Look at your post - it's all WE hate. But, in reality you are tuned out of the market - you are not longer a participant because you don't/won't buy anything.

The Stone Ages called and they want you back.

You folks need to stop whining and support whatever it is you want to support by paying for it, and then get on with your day.

[author]

Originally Posted by MarsBot

People tend to blame pirating for the problems in the music industry

Yes, of course.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by author

Yes, of course.

Marsbot: People also blame the fact that the seas around Somalia are dangerous on the Somali Pirates. When, in fact, the ocean is a very dangerous place with large mammals, rougue waves, etc. The Pirates are actually trying to level the playing field by taking on these monolithic shipping companies that ship us the stuff that THEY want to ship. I can go directly to the pirates and get a shipping container for, like $100 - why should I pay more? I f I could do that, I could ship my whatever to you and you could ship your whatnot to me, and your friend could ship his widget to us both and we'd make plenty of money without having any industry middlemen in our pockets. The world would be brilliant - and we DESERVE that!! Maybe shipping companies should wake up to the 21st century and get on Facebook and Twitter, sell t-shirts or mugs, maybe they can sponsor like children's birthday parties on their boats or give rides or recreate famous battles like the battle for Yavin from Star Wars. Sorry ships yall gotta' hustle just like the rest of us nowdays - this is the REAL world.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by adpz

This is such old tired BS. The people who are vilified are the ones that stealing - that doesn't count as a customer does it? And the "music industry" puts out music that people are willing to pay for - if you aren't willing to pay than you can't complain about what you are served, can you?

The problem is that people assume that because someone pirates music, that they do not BUY music. This has been disproved previously. The case tends to be that people who pirate music tend to buy MORE music than those who don't. That means if you vilify pirates, you're vilifying your primary customer base.

I don't fall into either category. I neither pirate nor do I buy albums.

Also, the whining I hear is from the likes of these posts. If you don't like how the "industry"is, then be part of a solution. Don't just sit on the couch complaining that your MP3s should be .9 cheaper.

Don't recall complaining about the prices of mp3s. Don't really see anyone here complaining about them either.

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by adpz

Marsbot: People also blame the fact that the seas around Somalia are dangerous on the Somali Pirates. When, in fact, the ocean is a very dangerous place with large mammals, rougue waves, etc. The Pirates are actually trying to level the playing field by taking on these monolithic shipping companies that ship us the stuff that THEY want to ship. I can go directly to the pirates and get a shipping container for, like $100 - why should I pay more? I f I could do that, I could ship my whatever to you and you could ship your whatnot to me, and your friend could ship his widget to us both and we'd make plenty of money without having any industry middlemen in our pockets. The world would be brilliant - and we DESERVE that!! Maybe shipping companies should wake up to the 21st century and get on Facebook and Twitter, sell t-shirts or mugs, maybe they can sponsor like children's birthday parties on their boats or give rides or recreate famous battles like the battle for Yavin from Star Wars. Sorry ships yall gotta' hustle just like the rest of us nowdays - this is the REAL world.

Haha thumbsupthumbsup

[Lawrence]

My .02...

I'll jump onto iTunes a buy a song for .99 quite often and actually I spend less money on my music than I used to. Why? Because I'm only paying for the songs I want, not an entire album of 12 songs where 8 of them aren't very good. Or if there is a great single and the CD mostly sucks after that. You can't buy that single at Best Buy, you have to buy the entire CD.

I'm not sure how that makes music more expensive to the end user. On the contrary, dollar for dollar I get much more value. 14 different songs for 14 dollars and all of them are songs I really wanted, not album filler fluff stuff that I'll never listen to more than once. I went through iTunes and grabbed all of my old favorite hit singles one by one.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by RasCricket

All respects, man

But you were "replicating", not "duplicating". When I saw "duplication I used to charge 1.50 per cd in quantity of 1000" my jaw dropped.
I was feeling sorry for the laser that was to be duplicating those 1000 discs. But thats not the case here, thankfully.

Whenever a glass master is involved, that is replication.

Burning a CD in your computer tower with a laser is duplication.

The amount of errors inherent to duplication is why people who need 1000 perfect copies go with replication.

Youre a smart one, so ya probably already knew this, just throwing out there for others.

lol
I did duplication I know what it is........... symantics
to-ma-to tamato potato? lol

unbelievable..........

[The Real MC]

Originally Posted by adpz

Dude - you are the problem. Look at your post - it's all WE hate. But, in reality you are tuned out of the market

The "We" are lots of other friends I know who share my sentiments. NONE of my friends watch MTV, and more of them are abandoning radio.

you are not longer a participant because you don't/won't buy anything.

We are no longer a participant because you don't/won't sell the product we WANT.

The Stone Ages called and they want you back.

They had the wrong number, they were looking for you.

You folks need to stop whining and support whatever it is you want to support by paying for it, and then get on with your day.

If you can't provide the product I want, I won't support you.

All the CDs I owned I have paid cold hard cash. I do not participate in downloading.

I'll get on with my day just fine without you.

Nice twist of the argument, though.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by The Real MC

Producers are puppets of the labels and they interfere with the art of music by forcing the label's view of music onto the product. It's all "flavor of the month". The reason many of us have stopped listening to radio is because it all sounds the same.
There is a lot of good music that ISN'T getting played on mainstream radio and that is why we have sought out music on the net.
Then quit signing up pretty faces who have no songwriting or singing talent. Quit promoting songs that are the same tired patterns or lyric themes. There's a lot of good songwriting that is not getting on the radio.
Hello, 1970 called they want their tie die shirts back. Welcome to the 21st century where home studios reign, where home produced music CAN get popular.
Studio time has gotten too high because they are located in extremely high real estate such as LA, Nashville, NYC. Today's technology is mobile and industries have a long history of moving to more favorable economic areas. With our advances in audio technology and how it has become more mobile, you guys remain stuck in the high priced cities. Take notes from the rest of the industries and MOVE.
Payola is no longer relevant, see radio below.
TV? I quit watching it, too many ads and the programming is poor.
Grammy or other award shows? Irrelevant, most of us quit watching it. Same talentless pretty faces on radio.
The net is your new promotion vehicle. Adopt it or die.
Radio is no longer relevant. Clearchannel and others broadcast from a central location using a central playlist. The playlist rotates on a short cycle and we hear the same sequence of songs every few hours. The variety of genres is extremely limited. We hate it.
MTV is no longer relevant. It's been twenty years since I bought an album because I heard a song on MTV. Today the "M" means anything BUT music. They had movie awards, game shows, talk shows, sitcoms, sport rallies - the only music they play with the precious remaining program time is hip hop, rap, or movie ads disguised as videos. With the poor offerings in music styles, most of us have abandoned MTV. We hate it.
Judas, no wonder the industry is a dinosaur.

Just because you and your friends dont, doesnt mean the public don't. Because they do in large numbers. MTV, Grammy, radio, etc audiences are huge. U represent the outsiders view that has no grip on the reality of the music industry. U have the cut yourself off the media, dont listen to the radio, only listen to stuff nobody has heard of view. Lemme guess: "sales don't matter" right? Of course they don't when u dont get any! That's nice when u r in high school and college but this is the entertainment industry and by ur musings you have no idea how it works and the affect of all media outlets working in conjunction on a move to create a successful project or movement. Good luck finding your way.

[bentwookieesound]

I don't really buy into the idea that labels are useless, and that the future is independent artists producing themselves. Sure, labels produce a lot of crap, but some of the shit coming from independent bands is just terrible... there is something to be said of having too many options. The sound of many of these groups and artists has just become a wash of cliche instrumentation, loops, and vocalization... just because the sound at one point was niche, doesn't mean it's any more original than top 40.

[adpz]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

The problem is that people assume that because someone pirates music, that they do not BUY music. This has been disproved previously. The case tends to be that people who pirate music tend to buy MORE music than those who don't. That means if you vilify pirates, you're vilifying your primary customer base.

I don't fall into either category. I neither pirate nor do I buy albums.



Don't recall complaining about the prices of mp3s. Don't really see anyone here complaining about them either.

The OPs link is about pricing of mp3s. Yes there are some people who both pirate music and also pay for it. The point is that there are 1000s of outlets for listening to practically whatever song you want for free that don't involve pirating. So people don't pirate for the lack of free outlets for music and therefore there is little reason to make the case that those that do steal music should somehow be coddled by the "industry".

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

My .02...
I'll jump onto iTunes a buy a song for .99 quite often and actually I spend less money on my music than I used to. Why? Because I'm only paying for the songs I want, not an entire album of 12 songs where 8 of them aren't very good.

Can I go off on a tangent for a second and say that I really find it bizarre when people make this statement...why do you bother listening to these bands if you find that 3/4's of their music is such drivel, you can't evem purchase it?

This is not an anti-ala-cart purchasing rant...just wondering what kind of music you weirdos are listening to, since apparently 3/4's of of it sucks.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by adpz

The OPs link is about pricing of mp3s. Yes there are some people who both pirate music and also pay for it. The point is that there are 1000s of outlets for listening to practically whatever song you want for free that don't involve pirating. So people don't pirate for the lack of free outlets for music and therefore there is little reason to make the case that those that do steal music should somehow be coddled by the "industry".

I'm not sure you read my post at all before replying.

People who pirate music tend to purchase more music than people who do not pirate music. That means that the bad guys also happen to be the good guys. The industry just happens to ignore that and treat them like bad guys and wonder why record sales go down.

BBC NEWS | Technology | File-sharers are big spenders too

Study finds pirates 10 times more likely to buy music | Music | guardian.co.uk

It would seem to make sense that people pirate music for the same reason they buy music, because they like music.

This has all been hashed out before anyways. Good luck.