Gyraf 1176

[gainreduction]

I think I've seen someone from Gyraf posting here so if you're still here, I'd really appreciate a reply.

I saw a Gyraf 1176 for sale on 2nd hand classifieds and my question is, how true is it to the original 1176 ? Identical...improved...modified...? My understanding is that the 1176 is not hard to clone and that there's really nothing special inside, I might be wrong though. I'm 1176 shopping and if it's pretty much the same I might aswell take this one. Experiences anyone ?? calling Gyraf, calling Gyraf, calling Gyraf..

[84K]

Don't know about the Gyraf stuff ( gets a lot of love here, so one would assume it is good ), but the Purple MC76 is awesome. I favor it over the originals. Just an option that is easy to get and not too expensive.

[norman_nomad]

I built one. I think it sounds awesome. Compared to the original? This is difficult to answer.... the originals often don't sound like other originals. The circuit is very similar to rev#F. Like the original, the G1176 is a FET based limiter; the attack and release times are the same as the original, as well as the ratios.

The G1176 gives the builder the option of using either OEP or Lundahl input and output transformers. It is possible also to skip the input transformer and use an electronically balanced input. (I'm sure Gyraf could elaborate in a much more meaningful way).

All of these options allow for a wide range of "flavors". The OEP being a bit more saturated sounding, and the lundahl's sounding a bit cleaner. You might want to ask the seller some questions about the build. Better yet, you might want to try the DIY approach. As a total newb, I found the G1176 challenging but approachable... and a lot of fun to build! There are some seriously knowledgeable and generous individuals on the prodigy-pro forum. Accessible here ---> http://gyraf.dk/ The breadth of information is pretty staggering... just lurking around there for the last few months has been like taking a college course!

Good luck!

[amino]

Well, you'd better grab it before I do, because I've had my eyes on that one for a while as well.

I really need to get some other stuff first so I think you'll be safe for a while...

[Will Shanks]

There are lots of great compressors out there that use FET gain reduction, and some that more closely or loosely follow the original 1176 design. But if you are going for "most authentic 1176" I'd go for a UA re-issue. The most difficult design element of creating an 1176 clone is the output transformer, and UA had access to all of Bill Putnam's original design notes when re-creating this crucial element. In my opinion the output transformer is one of the key contributors to the tone/sound of an 1176.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by Will Shanks

"most authentic 1176"

Interesting... Which of the dozen or so revisions of the original 1176 is the "most authentic 1176"? Some of them sound very very different from each other...

The general consensus in this place is that the UA 1176 Reissue is possibly the worst one yet...

[Will Shanks]

The UA re-issue is based on Rev. D/E. All the different revisions (9 total) shared the same output transformer.

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by amino

Well, you'd better grab it before I do, because I've had my eyes on that one for a while as well.

fuuck

[gainreduction]

This unit, if I understood the ad correctly is built by Gyraf.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by Will Shanks

The UA re-issue is based on Rev. D/E. All the different revisions (9 total) shared the same output transformer.

Well they certianly don't all sound the same now do they... considering the "output transformer is one of the key contributors to the tone/sound of an 1176."

Have you heard a Gyraf 1176?




gainreduction, where is this ad? The Gyraf 1176 refers to a DIY design... It may have been constructed by Jakob of Gyraf Audio but for some reason i doubt it...

[gainreduction]

Reading it again, it says it's built by a professional. So it's a DIY, from Gyrafs DIY schematics. So i guess I should find someone who knows electronics and go have a look at the build quality. I don't think it can do nuke, though..

[TRW]

You can add the Nuke switch very easily, its just a tie between a couple of ratio positions IIRC.

Tom

[blackbox]

it has been discussesd here many times before....

the ua reissue is a very valid tool. a great sounding fet limiter but very disappointing if you are expecting it to sound anything like the original blackfaces. Although they may vary some from box to box, there is a definite aggressive tone and bass rolloff the urei originals impart that is the main reason they are sought after.

[blackbox]

belive me because i went down that road and it was sad and expensive. the reissues don't hold much value in the used market....

[edanderson]

regarding the DIY clone version of the 1176:

both the original "gyraf" pcb layout and the later "mnats" pcb layout (both of these boards are available via the prodigy-pro.com DIY forum) have the following in common with an original 1176:

• FET limiting cicuit (as found in all revisions of the urei 1176, UA 1176, and purple mc76/77) including the sidechain
• class AB push/pull output line amp (as found in the rev F and later urei 1176, but NOT in the UA 1176 or purple mc76/77)

the FET limiting circuit is the MOST important aspect of the "1176" sound, and it is the ONLY thing that all the different revisions from all different vendors have in common.

the class AB push/pull output line amp is very similar to the circuit in the rev F and later urei 1176s, and sounds good, but doesn't sound the same as the rev A-E urei 1176, UA 1176, or purple mc76/77. also, the recommended lundahl or oep output transformers sound different from the transformer used in the rev F and later urei 1176.

the input circuit on the gyraf/mnats version is either an opamp based input, as with the urei 1176 rev G and later, or optionally with an input transformer (lundahl or oep) followed by an attenuator. this transformer and attenuator design is NOT the same as the attenuator followed by a transformer design used in the rev A through F urei 1176, some UA 1176, and the purple mc76/77.

also, the choice of components for the gyraf/mnats version is left almost entirely to the builder, so there is a wide range of variation in the finished product; not good or bad, just a lot of tonal possibilites.

so, FWIW, the gyraf/mnats DIY 1176 has some things in common with some other 1176s, and a well-built one can sound great. there are some differences as well, just as there are differences between the different original urei 1176 revisions, not to mention the UA 1176 and purple mc76/77. what works for you depends on what you want out of an 1176; as with any gear purchase i'd recommend listening before you buy.

Originally Posted by Will Shanks

The UA re-issue is based on Rev. D/E. All the different revisions (9 total) shared the same output transformer.

the urei 1176 had the same output line amp transformer from rev A through E. when the line amp changed from a class A design to a class AB design for the rev F unit, the output transformer changed also. as mentioned before, the DIY gyraf/mnats 1176 pcbs are based on the rev F and later circuit.

i would encourage anyone who is interested in the DIY clone versions of the 1176 to check out the prodigy-pro.com forums; there is a lot of information. it would also help this discussion if the ad in question could be linked, as i couldn't find it browsing through the gearslutz classifieds.

ed

[dokushoka]

Man, there is some real BS going on here.

The first studio I ever worked at had 4 rev D Ureis, which is what started my love affair with them. I currently own a UA reissue, and there are some places where the reissue sounds better than the Ureis. Its a nice box, and anyone that tells you otherwise is just being snotty. Just because it doesn't sound the same as a 30 year old box doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good.

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by edanderson

regarding the DIY clone version of the 1176:

both the original "gyraf" pcb layout and the later "mnats" pcb layout (both of these boards are available via the prodigy-pro.com DIY forum) have the following in common with an original 1176:

• FET limiting cicuit (as found in all revisions of the urei 1176, UA 1176, and purple mc76/77) including the sidechain
• class AB push/pull output line amp (as found in the rev F and later urei 1176, but NOT in the UA 1176 or purple mc76/77)

the FET limiting circuit is the MOST important aspect of the "1176" sound, and it is the ONLY thing that all the different revisions from all different vendors have in common.

the class AB push/pull output line amp is very similar to the circuit in the rev F and later urei 1176s, and sounds good, but doesn't sound the same as the rev A-E urei 1176, UA 1176, or purple mc76/77. also, the recommended lundahl or oep output transformers sound different from the transformer used in the rev F and later urei 1176.

the input circuit on the gyraf/mnats version is either an opamp based input, as with the urei 1176 rev G and later, or optionally with an input transformer (lundahl or oep) followed by an attenuator. this transformer and attenuator design is NOT the same as the attenuator followed by a transformer design used in the rev A through F urei 1176, some UA 1176, and the purple mc76/77.

also, the choice of components for the gyraf/mnats version is left almost entirely to the builder, so there is a wide range of variation in the finished product; not good or bad, just a lot of tonal possibilites.

so, FWIW, the gyraf/mnats DIY 1176 has some things in common with some other 1176s, and a well-built one can sound great. there are some differences as well, just as there are differences between the different original urei 1176 revisions, not to mention the UA 1176 and purple mc76/77. what works for you depends on what you want out of an 1176; as with any gear purchase i'd recommend listening before you buy.



the urei 1176 had the same output line amp transformer from rev A through E. when the line amp changed from a class A design to a class AB design for the rev F unit, the output transformer changed also. as mentioned before, the DIY gyraf/mnats 1176 pcbs are based on the rev F and later circuit.

i would encourage anyone who is interested in the DIY clone versions of the 1176 to check out the prodigy-pro.com forums; there is a lot of information. it would also help this discussion if the ad in question could be linked, as i couldn't find it browsing through the gearslutz classifieds.

ed

Great info !!! U rule, thanx !

[caseyLA]

Yeah the 1176 diy project looks like fun. I'm getting some of the latching buttons for mine. Hopefully start it after my Seventh Circle pre's.

You might consider building your own, gainreduction. The option to customize it plus the knowledge of what is actually happening inside the box is invaluable. Personally, I'm trying to become a good DIY'er so I can navigate around all the marketing BS and misinformation that runs wild in pro audio.

[amino]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Reading it again, it says it's built by a professional. So it's a DIY, from Gyrafs DIY schematics. So i guess I should find someone who knows electronics and go have a look at the build quality. I don't think it can do nuke, though..

Ouch! I thought Gyraf was selling a complete DIY-kit. Gyraf stands for excellent quality, but this one really doesn't have much to do with Gyraf then.

I'd much rather build one myself.

[desol]

I've just finished putting together the circuit for the SSL 4000 quad comp from Gyraf.....this was my first electronics project....
I was having some trouble with the left side oscillating on certain threshold settings and the output was a little lower?....after proding around, blowing up a few parts..resoldering EVERYTHING, checking a bunch of resistors....etc...and spending wayyy too much time(weeks) troubleshooting...turns out i had forgotten to 'ground...the...left...side'.............

lol

Anyways, everything appears to be working now that the 'ground' is connected.... The unit sounds good....really slams on higher thresholds...has a wide frequency response...clean...the VCA's were the 2180La...

I've attached a pic of the unit during testing....
This project would NOT have been possible if it wasn't for the great folks at prodigy pro...thanks all...i've almost finished my first one Next is two 1176's in a 2u...

Over and out.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

Man, there is some real BS going on here.

The first studio I ever worked at had 4 rev D Ureis, which is what started my love affair with them. I currently own a UA reissue, and there are some places where the reissue sounds better than the Ureis. Its a nice box, and anyone that tells you otherwise is just being snotty. Just because it doesn't sound the same as a 30 year old box doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good.

Right... anyone who has a preference is being "snotty"...

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

Right... anyone who has a preference is being "snotty"...

No. But disregarding the reissues is pretty senseless. Its snotty to say that just because its slightly different doesn't mean that it isn't good. I would say that the reissues work BETTER in many situations. I think its just considered "uncool" to not has a vintage black face with 30 year snot on the VU meter from some old engineer sneezing on it.

If you don't think the new one sounds good, I welcome you to come around my place and I'll show you how to use it.

[Ziggy!!]

Right... you say no... then you say yes... whats it going to be?

A lot of people don't like the reissues because they sound different... you said it yourself. A reissue is a reproduction of the original. People don't like the reissue because it doesn't quite have the sound of the originals. You can say what you want about the reissues but it is naive to think people are being "snotty" because they don't like them... I guess everyone is being snotty when they don't like working on Daws... or they prefer mixing on a console... or they prefer mixing down onto tape...

I think you are just pissed because people are bagging out gear you own...

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by Ziggy!!

I think you are just pissed because people are bagging out gear you own...

I could give a shit about what people think of the gear I own. I own some cheap shit, and I get good sounds with it so why would I care what people think? I'm not out to buy a BMW to impress the other yuppies, you know what I mean? I'm more into making records....

I never said it sounded exact. I said it sound damn good. Read my post before you quote me. In fact, this is exactly what I said:

"The first studio I ever worked at had 4 rev D Ureis, which is what started my love affair with them. I currently own a UA reissue, and there are some places where the reissue sounds better than the Ureis. Its a nice box, and anyone that tells you otherwise is just being snotty. Just because it doesn't sound the same as a 30 year old box doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good."

I noted that the Urei's I have used all sounded different from eachother, and the reissue sounds different still. It still sounds good, nah BETTER in some instances.

Snotty is dismissing a very quality, and valid tool because you want to impress people on the internet.

[MJGreene Audio]

What I find interesting about all the revisions is the difference in crunch. I have a 1176 blue-stripe Rev B and it is smooth. It has the 1176 attitude but with a much smoother overall tone. I also have some black face Rev D's and they are much more aggressive than the Rev B. Anyone have a Blue Stripe they want to sell? I want another one......

Haven't really tried the re-issue 1176's but I also love the Purple Audio Mc76's.

I will have to try a kit one of these days.
Michael Greene

[drundall]

The 1176 is my favorite compressor and as has been posted here, all seem to have a different flavor. The UA's are cleaner, but still sound quite good, and are very useful. I'm a little tired of going to studios and patching into an original blackface 1176 and finding out that it's really a $1500 fuzzbox. Although this can sound very cool, the odds seem to be that if a place has 3 1176's, you might find one that works like you expect it to. That's not very useful, especially if you are changing studios. At least the purple or UA's sound about the same every time.

That's my 2 cint.

[Ziggy!!]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

I could give a shit about what people think of the gear I own.

So you don't like it when people make assumptions? fancy that...

[desol]

settle down you 2...enough bitchin.........

1. I'm sure the reissue sounds fine...it can't be THAT off..... Ya know?

2. Snotty was the wrong word to use...a little harsh.....someone could take offence.

3. It is a FACT....that blackface 1176 compressors are on THOUSANDS of the best
records EVER MADE. So yes...blackface 1176's are GOOD COMPRESSORS...and
there is a STIGMA surrounding them.

Let's get back to talkin about the clone...

[gyraf]

The clone is redesigned in order to use widely-available parts, and at the same time retain the sonic characteristics of the Urei1176#F, of which we have four sitting in our studio.

And yes, you can always argue back and forth what is the best sounding version, but under any circumstances the basic design is a healthy FET-based, mostly discrete built, transformer-balanced output compressor, suitable for a wide variety of tasks in recording and mixing.

And it's correct that the very-old versions with DC running through the output transformer core are loved by many - but these are simply not easy at all to source parts for on a diy-basis (and even not on a pro manufacturing basis, judging from recent "reissues" :-) )

So far I havent heard from anyone that actually built the project that they were disappointed with the sound - but lots and lots of people NOT building it have all sorts of opinions and ideas about why it's not good enough and thus not worth trying to take on. I guess it's more about human nature than actual sonics.

Jakob E.

[GGreen]

Hi ,

I own 2 gyraf based 1176 with luhndahl and OEP transformers , I also have 2 SSL bus comps one with the High pass option.

In my humble opinion compared to the 1176's and SSL bus comps that I use in studios its a case of close enough for rock and roll.

When you consider it costs less than £400 to build a dual channel linkable 1176 and about £300 to do a SSL for people like me where money IS an issue its impossible to complain.

These projects are a superb and groovy thing!

Next up for me is an API 55x Eq and a nice Pultec.

Ive avoided the LA2's as the T4B's are pricy and my valve knowledge needs work!..

All I can say is thanks to d2k , Mr Gyraf and Prodigy Pro for all the hard work.

Cheers

GFX

'Viva La DIY putting nice kit into the hands of poor people'

FXpansion Audio UK