Sinatra's Vocal Chain

[cschuby]

I have been marveling at how wonderful Frank Sinatra's voice sounds on his Capitol recordings from the 1950s. Of course he was an unbelievable vocalist which was obviously the biggest reason for his sound, but I wonder what anyone might know about his vocal chain? I am aware he used a U47 during this period, but I wonder what other elements typically made up his vocal chain during this period?

Would be interested to hear from any Sinatra slutz.....

[robertshaw]

[robertshaw]

cool book for ya........

[cschuby]

Have actually just recently picked that book up!!

Really enjoying it. I haven't finished it, but so far it hasn't given any details of equipment used with Sinatra, other than his microphones. Still a great read for Sinatra fans.

I'll tell you, the sound of the rooms he recorded in were so sweet. The whole orchestra sounds so vibrant. Great stuff....

[John Eppstein]

In addition to the U47 he often used the RCA DX77 ribbon mic.

[rty5150]

wasn't frank using bill putnam at this time? i recall something being said about sinatra being tracked through putnam's original 610 console. i could be wrong.

[Stiff]

I think I saw a video a while back somewhere about someone who recorded Frank. Gear was most definitely mentioned. It was on the web - not Youtube - but can't remember for the life of e where it was. I'll check my bookmarks.

[John Willett]

He also was a professional who knew how to use a microphone - a skill very rare among modern vocalists.

[greyskull]

LOVE that pop shield

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by rty5150

wasn't frank using bill putnam at this time? i recall something being said about sinatra being tracked through putnam's original 610 console. i could be wrong.

not only that, but he owned one himself.

[blim]

Originally Posted by cschuby

but I wonder what other elements typically made up his vocal chain during this period?

The two most important parts of the Sinatra vocal chain: The voice itself and the room.

The thing about Sinatra was not so much that he had an amazing voice, but that his phrasing was so great. The guy practically invented modern phrasing.

[erosconpollo]

Originally Posted by blim

The thing about Sinatra was not so much that he had an amazing voice, but that his phrasing was so great. The guy practically invented modern phrasing.

His phrasing, though, was most definitely influenced by Billie Holliday. He was savvy enough to recognize what she had and consciously perfect it for his own singing.

[Turdadactyl]

Originally Posted by greyskull

LOVE that pop shield

Why am I suddenly singing "Sure Shot" by the Beastie Boys?

[JJAM]

I'm afraid that I often don't get the chain threads that pop up. What makes a certain singer's vocal sound so good is...their voice. I've recorded great singers with crap mics and they still sound good. I've recorded really bad singers with great mics and they still sound dreadful.

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

In addition to the U47 he often used the RCA DX77 ribbon mic.

Didnt Elvis use the RCA along with the Shure as well? Not meaning to hijack the thread in anyway, but I am curious to know (considering both voices are fairly different in terms of texture) how the RCA was that versatile..
Is it silly to ask about any compression that was available at the time?

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

In addition to the U47 he often used the RCA DX77 ribbon mic.

Think it was more the 44-BX, and that was back in the Columbia years. Though I believe the 77A was available, if I'm not mistaken the DX came out in the '50s, by which time Frank was mostly on to the 47s.


Cheers.

[joeq]

Let's also keep in mind that FS records are mixed to be like 80% vocal and 20% band, so you actually get to HEAR that lovely vocal chain and great singer.

[Empty Planet]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think the tunes were more arranged than mixed to feature the vocals. No amount of mixing is going to create that kind of spaciousness, particularly if instruments are competing for the same range. Listen to the way the horns and strings get out of the way of the vox when Frank comes in. No accident, that. Particularly with Nelson Riddle's work, it's a real ballet. God knows, modern rock bands could learn a tip or two from listening to Riddle arrangements. I'm with the OP: What a marvelous thing to hear those tunes.


Cheers.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Turdadactyl

Why am I suddenly singing "Sure Shot" by the Beastie Boys?

I have no idea.....

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by CJ1973

Didnt Elvis use the RCA along with the Shure as well? Not meaning to hijack the thread in anyway, but I am curious to know (considering both voices are fairly different in terms of texture) how the RCA was that versatile..
Is it silly to ask about any compression that was available at the time?

It's a good bet that Elvis primarily used the Shure for live work. He may or may not have used it for the Sun recordings. After he moved to RCA I would bet that he used some model of RCA ribbon to record, perhaps a 44?

[robertshaw]

I always wanted to do a cover of 'It was a very good year'

[Goliath|Audio]

I couldn't help but notice the "Afterword with Nancy Sinatra"

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think the tunes were more arranged than mixed to feature the vocals. No amount of mixing is going to create that kind of spaciousness, particularly if instruments are competing for the same range. Listen to the way the horns and strings get out of the way of the vox when Frank comes in. No accident, that. Particularly with Nelson Riddle's work, it's a real ballet. God knows, modern rock bands could learn a tip or two from listening to Riddle arrangements. I'm with the OP: What a marvelous thing to hear those tunes.


Cheers.

Great point about the arrangements. Riddle knew what the hell he was doing and really wrote those arrangements specifically for Sinatra's voice.The orchestra is so full and rich, but there's so much space around the vocal. Amazing. It's getting to the point where I'm having a hard time listening to anything else but Frank's Capitol recordings lately.

I also once heard Sinatra talk about how he learned breathing techniques by watching his band leader Tommy Dorsey play trombone in the early 40s. Dorsey could blow a lot of bars with one breath and knew how to control it. Sinatra became a master at vocal control.

Interesting to hear about the 610. Does anyone know about compression/limiting? Did they use Fairchilds in his vocal chain??

[tampa]

Gotta love Frank he was great and so was Dean.

[SeanBlack]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

I have no idea.....

"Strictly Hand Held Is The Style I Go
Never Rock The Mic With The Panty Hose"
-Beastie Boys- Sure Shot

[BB Bill]

Originally Posted by JJAM

I'm afraid that I often don't get the chain threads that pop up. What makes a certain singer's vocal sound so good is...their voice.

Well, this is GEARslutz. Not Voiceslutz.

[James Lugo]

Originally Posted by Big Bad Bill

Well, this is GEARslutz. Not Voiceslutz.

I have to agree, discouraging people from asking questions like this is not what gearslutz is about. If someone wants to know the vocal chain this is a great place to find out.

Moderator

[Gulliver]

Might have had something to do with that "bourbon and cigarette smoke" sputtered diaphragm..

[Audi Uh Oh]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

I have to agree, discouraging people from asking questions like this is not what gearslutz is about. If someone wants to know the vocal chain this is a great place to find out.

Moderator

+1

I think we can all agree we've had enough of the "The Beatles are the Beatles" type answers... the talent is the best instrument, it's the room, yesterday was better, when musicians could play, yada yada yada... we get it!

[FireMoon]

Originally Posted by JJAM

I'm afraid that I often don't get the chain threads that pop up. What makes a certain singer's vocal sound so good is...their voice. I've recorded great singers with crap mics and they still sound good. I've recorded really bad singers with great mics and they still sound dreadful.

There are some very very good congers who sound absolutely rubbish though certain mics as they rob them of that essential character other mics pick up.

Sinatra had a tremendous voice but lets get it right, many of today's rock singers would have sounded well strange through a 1950s radio set. His voice was, perfectly suited to the media of the day.

it's always made me quietly laugh when a guitarist is allowed to spend umpteen hours getting the sound just right, then when the vocals are up for a take, the engineer just slaps a U87 up and expects that to be right and if it's not it's the singers fault.


Some mics are made for certain voices, not that they were intended that way, they just do. I've found, over the years that, the U47FET gives far more of a workable presence, with higher pitched voices, than a U87, which, to my ears, tips into bark rather than bite with those sort of voices.

Same with compressors, the LA2a, on my voice, makes it sound too polite, the LA£A, adds bite but tips into top end sibilance at times, the 1176 gives it shove. bite and presence without it sounding artificial.


Voices are even more individual than guitars, but, for some reason, they tend to be lumped together. Yeah EVH would sound great on a plank with 6 rubber bands, but he don;t record with one, does he?

Just because a mic cost a fortune, doesn't mean it's the right one for any particular voice, no matter how good, technically, a singer they are.