Sinatra's Vocal Chain

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by byk

This old thread is a must read:

Sinatra & the Impact of Sound


byk

Terrific thread. Thanks!thumbsup

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Um, Bob, I know you're vastly more experienced to me and you were making hits when I just started, but the Shure 546 is not a handheld microphone - that would be the 545......

It was if you took it off the stand and held it! The 546 was the professional version of the 545 having a selected high performance capsule and a shock mount of sorts. Sinatra had the optional shiny gold version.

The SM 56 replaced it and at the same time a handheld version, the SM 57 was introduced.

[u b k]

Best thread of 2010, thank you gentlemen.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[Mad John]

Originally Posted by cschuby

Just found this! Outtakes of "I got plenty of nuttin'"....cool stuff

http://www.bigozine.com/TRKSA1/FSstudio/FSstudio05.mp3

This is really AWESOME! What CD is it from?



Who wants to recommend Capital Sinatra recordings for this eager chap?

[CJ1973]

Which session may have this been..... Mics?

[CJ1973]

..."This large diaphragm tube microphone was the type used extensively by Frank Sinatra and Nat 'King' Cole at Capitol studios. So good it was featured on album jackets. The chief recording engineer for Capitol said "Never before have I seen such a wide frequency band or such a smooth response in the upper range."


HELLO?? WTF..

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by CJ1973

Which session may have this been..... Mics?

According to a conversation I had with Voyle Gilmore, who produced the early Capitol sessions and was head of A&R during the later ones, most of what we see in pictures were photo sessions where a photographer chose both the studio and the microphones. Back then nobody who was paying a thousand-plus dollars an hour for an orchestra would be likely to allow the distraction of having a photographer at a recording session.

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

most of what we see in pictures were photo sessions where a photographer chose both the studio and the microphones. Back then nobody who was paying a thousand-plus dollars an hour for an orchestra would be likely to allow the distraction of having a photographer at a recording session.

Thanks. Should that be the case, why would the photographer have half a face of the woman at the back because to me thats just really bad photography or plain brilliance(i doubt that though)...and nothing inbetween. Im sure photo shoots were fairly expensive then too right?

[PRobb]

That style of music is not really my cup of tea, but great is great. And Sinatra singing over those swing a ding ding Nelson Riddle arrangements is GREAT!

Every singer in the world should lock themselves in a room with those records for a week and learn how to phrase. Then do the same with Billie Holiday!

[Bob Olhsson]

I can easily imagine Sinatra himself not wanting a picture to look posed.

[Bob Olhsson]

I've recently learned that here in Nashville at Bradley Recording and Film the vocal mike of choice was a Schoeps SD condenser. They used their U-47s and M49s elsewhere.

At RCA they modified their U-47s with what I understand was an anti-sibilance filter that dipped 8k. Many many people switched to the Sony C-37 over the U-47 for vocals. All of this, according to Steve Temmer, was what led Neumann to creating the U-67 in order to compete.

[PRobb]

To shift gears for a minute- in those big band Capitol sessions how was the band miced?
How many, where would they have been placed, and what types?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

It was if you took it off the stand and held it! The 546 was the professional version of the 545 having a selected high performance capsule and a shock mount of sorts. Sinatra had the optional shiny gold version

That's interesting Bob. I'm a sort of collector of 545 and 546s and the 545s all sound like the better quality mics to me ?


Sorry for the OT.

[Joram]

Originally Posted by Steve G

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

I remember someone mentioning 3 M49s for the Only the Lonely record - can't tell you who told me, but the guy was very much into remastering of the old capital records. They recorded quite some classical stuff as well with three M49s.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

It was if you took it off the stand and held it! The 546 was the professional version of the 545 having a selected high performance capsule and a shock mount of sorts. Sinatra had the optional shiny gold version.

The SM 56 replaced it and at the same time a handheld version, the SM 57 was introduced.

I suppose so..... I remember the optional gold version - I have a gold 565/SM58.

For a while both the 56 and the 546 were in the catalog. I have about a half dozen of the 56s.

[Mad John]

Hah, Listening to "SINATRA'S SWINGING SESSION and more!"

Smooth recording...good stuff!

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by Mad John

This is really AWESOME! What CD is it from?



Who wants to recommend Capital Sinatra recordings for this eager chap?

The outtake is from the following:

roio » Blog Archive » FRANK SINATRA - STUDIO OUTTAKES

This site has 14 outtake tracks you can download. Awesome stuff.

As far as recommendations, anything from the Capitol period is great but my favorite album is "Songs for Swingin' Lovers." An absolute MUST have. Some folks (including myself) actually prefer the original CD version (not the remastered one done recently). Some absolute gems here, inlcuding "It Happened in Monterey," "I've Got You Under My Skin," and "You Brought a New Kind of Love to Me."

[hearttimes]

the famous sinatra phrasing was majorly influenced by the trombone of tommy dorsey. frank was a mostly unknown singer when he joined dorsey's orchestra.

billie holiday, on the other hand, was greatly influenced by her hero (and everyone's) louie armstrong.

by the way, nelson riddle wrote a great book on arranging for those interested.

we are proud to have members in our orchestra, les deux love orchestra, from the dorsey and the nelson riddle orchestras.

kind regards and best wishes on your records from us old timers.

[Mad John]

Originally Posted by cschuby

The outtake is from the following:

roio » Blog Archive » FRANK SINATRA - STUDIO OUTTAKES

This site has 14 outtake tracks you can download. Awesome stuff.

As far as recommendations, anything from the Capitol period is great but my favorite album is "Songs for Swingin' Lovers." An absolute MUST have. Some folks (including myself) actually prefer the original CD version (not the remastered one done recently). Some absolute gems here, inlcuding "It Happened in Monterey," "I've Got You Under My Skin," and "You Brought a New Kind of Love to Me."

Thanks cschuby...that is truly helpful and thank you for the great music link..checking it out now!

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by PRobb

To shift gears for a minute- in those big band Capitol sessions how was the band miced?
How many, where would they have been placed, and what types?

Just found this today in the "Sessions with Sinatra" book (which I am reading as fast as I can find the time!). The description is from John Palladino who worked at Capitol studios during this period. He says (page 112):

"For a typical mono session, I'd use a (RCA)44 split on reeds, placed low (around 18 inches off the floor) to get that nice 'fat' sax sound. Then, off the side of this mic, I'd use another 44, or a Neumann U47 for the trombones. Now, above the trombones were the trumpets, which were picked up by the trombone mic, but I'd still give them their own mic as well. The piano would be miked (I favored the 44 for piano); the drums would have one RCA 77 over the top of the kit, and for the acoustic bass, I'd either use a 639, or an Altec contact mic that could be strapped to the bass. The guitar got its own mic as well. Miking strings along with so much rhythm and brass could be a problem, because the sound of the strings just got overwhelmed by the other instruments. Of course, at that point we couldn't record them separately and cut them in later, so we just dealt with it."

They "dealt" with it pretty well I'd say......

[Bob Olhsson]

Frank had been a winner of Major Bowes Original Amateur Hour and sang with Harry James before Dorsey.

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Frank had been a winner of Major Bowes Original Amateur Hour and sang with Harry James before Dorsey.

Thanks.

I recently read where Frank felt that Harry James was really ultimately responsible for his success, mainly because Harry let him out of his contract so he could tour with Dorsey, which really made things take off for him.

[rdc333]

Or not?

Great photo either way. Sure looks like a 251 to me . . .

[vernier]

Nat Cole, Judy Garland, Dean Martin, Peggy Lee, Shirley Bassey,
Frank Sinatra, etc ...all great sounding records.

.

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg

Hey Steve

Studio A -- One of the best sounding rooms in the world. My understanding is that Capitol now leases that recording studio from the current owners of the building, and that the lease will soon run out. If that happens, one of the greatest studios/rooms will cease to operate. Sad

It is true that EMI no longer owns the Tower, but Capitol does have a very long lease, and no one has any plans of closing the building or the studios. We are very much alive, and probably one of the busiest studios in the world.

Steve

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

According to a conversation I had with Voyle Gilmore, who produced the early Capitol sessions and was head of A&R during the later ones, most of what we see in pictures were photo sessions where a photographer chose both the studio and the microphones. Back then nobody who was paying a thousand-plus dollars an hour for an orchestra would be likely to allow the distraction of having a photographer at a recording session.

Agreed, almost all of what you see in publicity photos and album covers were photo shoots, but many of the shots being circulated these days are actually session photos. As I understand it, Capitol had staff photographers, and they spent a lot of time shooting in the studios. There is a very large photo archive that hopefully will be opened up for all to enjoy some day. I personally know of no plans, but I hope those in charge of the archives are working on stuff.

Steve

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by CJ1973

Which session may have this been..... Mics?

That looks like the old Melrose studios. The Tower (and studios) were built in the late 50's. I do know a lot, if not all, of the gear from Melrose studios was brought over to the Tower studios.

Steve

[Steve G]

Originally Posted by vernier

Nat Cole, Judy Garland, Dean Martin, Peggy Lee, Shirley Bassey,
Frank Sinatra, etc ...all great sounding records.

.

Again, the old Melrose studios. But I believe that's the Steinway that we still have, and use today.

Steve

[Grandpa's Hammer]

Just finished listening to " At last : Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim "
with my 75 year old mother in law . Nothing short of timeless mastery , performance
and composition wise . Sorry I can't give any technical info to this thread but would like to add that to me the greatness of sound comes from experiencing Frank singing in the moment , making you a part of his experience . In my opinion you're
listening to the emotions first which make up the " sound " of the song , the technical aspect are important , but secondary . Anyways , just rumbling away , but love how Frank Sinatra moves my heart .

[steveyraff]

At a studio I interned in once, the engineer showed me a Universal Audio preamp and said something like 'Yea, in later years, Sinatra used U.A stuff'. I was always very sceptical of that remark. If anyone can educate me further on this statement?