Sinatra's Vocal Chain

[juniorhifikit]

While I wasn't there during ANY Sinatra recordings, I can say that he wasn't as close to the mic as singers are today, so a lot less proximity effect (low-mid mud) so less EQ was necessary. This worked because the arrangements allowed him to back off the mic as did the great acoustics of the room. The great acoustics of the room meant that the bleed from the band into his mic was complimentary, not detrimental. These days of closet recording, as soon as you back off the mic, you hear lots of early reflections that sound like, well, a closet.

Just a theory...

[mikecorwin]

http://www.coutant.org/u47/sinatra.mp3

[Melgueil]

Originally Posted by John Willett

He also was a professional who knew how to use a microphone - a skill very rare among modern vocalists.

Thank you
cdlt

[JoeDeF]

Originally Posted by mikecorwin

http://www.coutant.org/u47/sinatra.mp3

Thanks for posting! Any more, or any info about where it came from?

[OneUp Ent]

Originally Posted by mikecorwin

http://www.coutant.org/u47/sinatra.mp3

Very Cool! Great voice even when just speaking. I'm also a huge fan of Nat King Cole's Voice. Sounded incredible on the "Christmas Song" Wonder if they used similar chains (Nat and Frank).

[Steve Singh]

Originally Posted by Big Bad Bill

Well, this is GEARslutz. Not Voiceslutz.

How on earth is this not a pertinent question?

[58Precision]

so the 47 into the putnam console and out to 2 inch? is that the consensus? anyone know what tape machine was used? band tracked at the same time? anyone know if there was some compression happening here? i'm all about music first but i'm certainly curious.

i really need to know because my little 15 year old brother sounds like shit whenever we use the old 47 into the putnam and out to tape. i don't understand what we're doing wrong. he sounds great with the NT1A into the mbox though!!! the old one with the really good focusrite pres!

my first gearslutz joke post. i'm proud!!!

[58Precision]

i just listened to the clip. HOLY **** YOU GUYS!!!! scary.

[CJ1973]

Holy moly!!!!.... Take M take.... BANG on... how nice does that sound!!!!!!

[Steve G]

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

Steve

[Jorn Lavoll]

awesome thread Can I suggest you illustrate your posts with youtubelinks? Especially examples of good orchestration etc?

[tommy_asakawa]

Originally Posted by blim

The thing about Sinatra was not so much that he had an amazing voice, but that his phrasing was so great. The guy practically invented modern phrasing.

+1 thumbsup

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by Steve G

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

Steve

And there it is, folks.

Amazing community we have here.

[softwareguy]

Thanks for the good info about this truly iconic sound.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Steve G

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

Steve

awesome...

any pics of that custom Capitol console?

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by mikecorwin

http://www.coutant.org/u47/sinatra.mp3

Great link...thanks!!

[cschuby]

Originally Posted by Steve G

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

Steve

This is fantastic. Really appreciate all the responses to my post. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during a Sinatra session! Must be amazing to listen to that right from the original source.

One question Steve: did Capitol build their own desks like Abbey Road or did they modify stock consoles? Would love to see pictures if you have access to any.

[andychamp]

Originally Posted by Steve G

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

Steve

After 4 hours mixing a live amateur-gangsta-rap show, I'm in the office, waiting for the aftershow party to end, and found this gem (along with the mp3)
In true Wayne's World fashion: "we are not worthy, we are not worthy!"
Thanx for making a tired man very happy!

[CJ1973]

Hi
Just a thought. While its great to dwell on what has been... if we look at similar artists today (closest I can think of is Michael Buble)....
Why is it that say David Foster doesn't employ these sorts of recording techniques now, considering he will be able to get the authenticity on it etc. I understand budget restraints.. But is it because there is a HUGE gap in understanding and implementing the science of recording and we are just really not there any more in terms of skill level? or is it again, purely cost saving? OR in your opinion, is what's done today better in terms of quality? If thats the case, then why are we talking about dated recording techniques....which is right?

[cschuby]

Just found this! Outtakes of "I got plenty of nuttin'"....cool stuff

http://www.bigozine.com/TRKSA1/FSstudio/FSstudio05.mp3

[vernier]

Tube desk and Ampex 200 can't be beat.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by cschuby

...One question Steve: did Capitol build their own desks like Abbey Road or did they modify stock consoles?...

There were no stock consoles before the 1970s!

It should be remembered that when Frank Sinatra began his career, a band's sound system often consisted of what amounted to a guitar amp with a mike plugged into it. Mike technique was everything. If you failed at that, you also failed to connect with the audience and would probably never stand the slightest chance of ever being broadcast or recorded.

[CJ1973]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

If you failed at that, you also failed to connect with the audience and would probably never stand the slightest chance of ever being broadcast or recorded.

Well said. Back then people knew how to play instruments and did not waste time playing games on an iPad....

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by blim

...The thing about Sinatra was not so much that he had an amazing voice, but that his phrasing was so great. The guy practically invented modern phrasing.

His phrasing was superb but Sinatra'd be the first to tell you that Ella Fitzgerald invented modern phrasing. Frank was probably the first teen idol to use jazz phrasing.

[tommy_asakawa]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

His phrasing was superb but Sinatra'd be the first to tell you that Ella Fitzgerald invented modern phrasing. Frank was probably the first teen idol to use jazz phrasing.

Great point, Bob!

Actually, Frank had a sensational voice!

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by 58Precision

so the 47 into the putnam console and out to 2 inch? is that the consensus? anyone know what tape machine was used? band tracked at the same time? anyone know if there was some compression happening here? i'm all about music first but i'm certainly curious.

i really need to know because my little 15 year old brother sounds like shit whenever we use the old 47 into the putnam and out to tape. i don't understand what we're doing wrong. he sounds great with the NT1A into the mbox though!!! the old one with the really good focusrite pres!

my first gearslutz joke post. i'm proud!!!

2 inch??? What 2 inch? Perhaps in the last years of his life, but the vast bulk of Sinatra's stuff was recorded to 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch tape, mixed live. State of the art at the time was 3 track, although he probably also recorded to 2 track and mono machines in the early part of his career.

His mid to late '60s stuff was most likely 4 track, like everybody else's. 8 track came along around '68 or '69, but wasn't used widely until the early '70s.

As to what machines were used - Ampex.

[Bob Olhsson]

According to Wally Heider, who was there for most, all of his recordings at United/Western were made with the same handheld gold Shure 546 that he used on stage.

[doug hazelrigg]

Originally Posted by Steve G

Here's what I know after working at Capitol Studios for 15 years. Frank usually sang into a U47, although I have seen some pictures with a U67 and an M49. We still own and use these very same mics on a daily basis. The pre would have been whatever was in the custom Capitol desks with no compression or EQ, just fader rides by talented staff engineers (names escape me at the moment, but I can look it up later). The tape machines were all 1/2" 3 track. Every now and then we pull out the old tapes for reissues, and they sound like they were recorded yesterday, stunning.

Steve

Hey Steve

Studio A -- One of the best sounding rooms in the world. My understanding is that Capitol now leases that recording studio from the current owners of the building, and that the lease will soon run out. If that happens, one of the greatest studios/rooms will cease to operate. Sad

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

According to Wally Heider, who was there for most, all of his recordings at United/Western were made with the same handheld gold Shure 546 that he used on stage.

Um, Bob, I know you're vastly more experienced to me and you were making hits when I just started, but the Shure 546 is not a handheld microphone - that would be the 545......

http://www.shure.com/stellent/groups...pro_546_ug.pdf

[byk]

This old thread is a must read:

Sinatra & the Impact of Sound


byk