What's the best Neve Clone?

[jeronimo]

Can any of you guys comment on this pre amp?

[Drayon]

Not sure if anyone is aware of the 'CL1' from Vintagedesign, the concept looks great, it offers more features than any of the other Neve 2254/2264 clones out there.

Hopefully soon some ppl will get the opportunity to use the unit and report back with their impressions on how is compares sonically with the 2254 Neve.

If this unit sounds very similar to the 2254 i think it will be the only unit out there that offers what i desire ;-)

http://www.vintagedesign.se/cl1.htm

bring it on !!!

ez

[C.Lambrechts]

it doesn't look like a 2254 .... not that that should matter.

pricerange is round 3000 euro's.

[Lindell]

It is very sweet indeed. When I A/B´d it to the 2254 it was scary similar! Way to expensive I think though....

[danalexander]

hi - i can tell you this...it was just chosen by Ricky Martin and his engineer for Ricky's vocal preamp.They compared it to 9 other preamps. And if you can hear the 3/4's of one db difference at 40,000hz between our unit and a real 80 series pre, I have a job application for you. As far as rumours of reliability problems, in the last year i have recieved 3 preamps for repair, and one had nothing wrong with it. We have sold over 500 units. The first series (I guess they're "vintage" now) were All hand wired and used some old components as well as edge connectors for the line amps. Our new package (well about 5 years now, actually) is all new components excepting the transformers, and they have proven to be very reliable. The electronic circuitry is IDENTICAL. The newer style unit uses a more rugged power supply and an added 1/4" unbalanced out in addition to the normal balanced xlr....you can see photo's and get more info at our website.www.danalexanderaudio.com dan alexander

[jeronimo]

Thanks... I have already visited your website a while ago...

[djui5]

nothing like a reply from the man himself huh?

I haven't used the pre's so I can't comment....

[JohnnyTooLoud]

We've had one for about a year now and it gets used as much as anything else - no problems so far.

We use it and the Great River NV on similar sources (guitars, drum OH, snare) and they mix well together.

--JTL

[lowswing]

is it true that the pre send 48v all the time (no phantom on/off)?
dan can you please clear this point?
thanx

[jeronimo]

Originally posted by Kent
It is not a really big deal if your wiring is correct. Shouldn't matter at all.

I'm not sure about that... what if you have a ribbon plugged in? Or anything else that doesn't go well w/ 48v.

[danalexander]

There are two front panel phantom on and off switches on the Dan Alexander Audio DualClass A mic pre...... BUT, the reality as I understand it, is that the only time phantom is a problem with a ribbon mic is when the cable has a short. Has anyone actually experienced this problem?
most classic neve and api consoles made before 1980 did not have phantom on and off . it was always on ...

[Tim Farrant]

I discovered this on the AMS/NEVE website. I'd be interested in hearing comments from those making Neve clones about this?

GETTING STRAIGHT ON CLONES

In recent years some companies have claimed to make Neve modules and this has led to much confusion about what a Neve really is. These companies claim that their products sound as good as Neve's because they use the Neve design and some of the original components, chiefly the St. Ives (Carnhill) transformer. 'The Sound is in the Iron' is a popular expression, so if it uses a St. Ives transformer, which was designed by Neve, it must be as good as the real thing, right? Well actually no, the transformers also have to comply with Neve's extremely stringent specifications. Neve frequently returns transformers to St. Ives because they do not meet the required standard.

When Neve reintroduced the 1073 and 1084s in October 2003, the existing transformers, sold to the clone companies, did not satisfy the Neve standard. Neve had to provide additional information to St. Ives to correct the errors. Therefore, the clone companies making these claims obviously don't know what the Neve specification really is. And they won’t ever know, because the correct transformers are made exclusively for Neve.

Tim

[picksail]

Mr. Tanner?

[Lindell 2nd]

How about all those cloners using the NEVE name to sell their clones? Is that legal? ..... just curious

[tonymite]

not just the name ... how bout the circuit design ??? also ... it aint just neve stuff .. how bout the LA2 clones the pultecs and SSL's ie:AlSmart ?? where does this all fit legally????

[Geoff_T]

Originally posted by picksail
Mr. Tanner?

Hi

Oh Blimey... I hate getting involved in these things... I'm piggy in the middle because of my strong ties still with Neve and my pals there versus some very nice recreations like the BA models.

Anyway... they have a point, albeit a slightly mute one.

Yes, Carnhill may insinuate otherwise but I'm certain that they did NOT make the original 1166 and 2567 output transformers (that was Marinair Radar). The versions they make now are educated copies, much as the other transformer suppliers would make.

Yes, when AMS-Neve tried one of their 1166's for their 1073 and 1084, it did not meet their EM specs.

I would add that Neve, as a company, supplied EM specification sheets to transformer manufacturers to build the transformers. Thus, the design belongs to Neve, not the transformer manufacturer. So, when the transformer manufacturer makes a bundle selling Neve designed transformers to all and sundry, you can work out for yourselves the moral issues involved. IMHO I think Neve should have acted sooner.

Anyway, as far as I know, the O/P transformers supplied to the OEMs is not the same as used in the AMS-Neve 1073/84.

Whether you would notice the difference is a very subjective matter, as it involves high signal levels at low frequencies. The OEM has distortion in double figures, the AMS-Neve in single figures. Using regular +4dBu line levels the difference would be microscopic.

So, the message they posted is truthful... but can you hear the difference? Your choice....

There are some really crummy Neve clones out there, I have a photo of the inside of a fake 1081 that beggars belief. Let the buyer beware when buying any old Neve module... and if they have plastic serial number and model number labels instead of aluminium... be VERY suspicious. No labels = fake.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by tonymite
not just the name ... how bout the circuit design ??? also ... it aint just neve stuff .. how bout the LA2 clones the pultecs and SSL's ie:AlSmart ?? where does this all fit legally????

I think the very early Alan Smart's were basically the SSL compressor (first couple units). They were even using cards that said Solid State Logic on them. I think something went down legally though, as the design was changed and the sound is slightly different than the SSL.

[hrn]

Hey, is Neve som kind of religion? If you're a true believer, get the original then and pay for it...and a tech to to have a look at it.

Is it really worth it????

Well, I don't know, but there are a lot of good stuff around like Great River, John Hardy, Brent Averill, API, Calrec channels, Phoenix Audio, Daking, Helios, Chandler, A Designs, Summit, Siemens and Telefunken, Universal Audio, Vintech or why not the Vintagedesign (seems to be new in the game http://www.vintagedesign.se/vd_english.htm) ............................................. ..............Or why not some Spectrasonics channels


bla bla bla

[Lindell 2nd]

Originally posted by hrn
Hey, is Neve som kind of religion? If you're a true believer, get the original then and pay for it...and a tech to to have a look at it.

Is it really worth it????

Well, I don't know, but there are a lot of good stuff around like Great River, John Hardy, Brent Averill, API, Calrec channels, Phoenix Audio, Daking, Helios, Chandler, A Designs, Summit, Siemens and Telefunken, Universal Audio, Vintech or why not the Vintagedesign (seems to be new in the game http://www.vintagedesign.se/vd_english.htm) ............................................. ..............Or why not some Spectrasonics channels
bla bla bla

What the h ell are you babbling about? =))
Sväääääärige

[hrn]

gul o bla
__________________________________

Bruna bönor och fläsk slut

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by hrn
Hey, is Neve som kind of religion? If you're a true believer, get the original then and pay for it...and a tech to to have a look at it.

Is it really worth it????

Well, I don't know, but there are a lot of good stuff around like Great River, John Hardy, Brent Averill, API, Calrec channels, Phoenix Audio, Daking, Helios, Chandler, A Designs, Summit, Siemens and Telefunken, Universal Audio, Vintech or why not the Vintagedesign (seems to be new in the game http://www.vintagedesign.se/vd_english.htm) ............................................. ..............Or why not some Spectrasonics channels


bla bla bla

OK, And half of those people make Neve clones... So, I think what you are trying to say is to buy a clone and save the money. Well, none of them are quite the original (kind of like a fake Rolex). If you want something that isn't a clone, but retains that Neve "glory years" sound, people should really check out the Aurora Audio GTQ-2. I think it's funny when a person asks a difficult question about a Neve product, someone always chimes in with "Ask GeoffT". Yet they forget to mention Aurora Audio when it comes to a Neve style preamp manufacturer.... Hello people..... the GTQ-2 is the king of the Neve style preamps!!!!!! It takes the past to a new level! Let's all thank Geoff for making one of the coolest sounding mic pre's of our time. Not something that just tries to copy the old stuff, but a piece that really improves on it. Put one next to a 1073 and tell me which you prefer to cut your vocal tracks with.

[natpub]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
It takes the past to a new level! Let's all thank Geoff for making one of the coolest sounding mic pre's of our time. Not something that just tries to copy the old stuff, but a piece that really improves on it. Put one next to a 1073 and tell me which you prefer to cut your vocal tracks with.

Not to mention, two channels for the price of one :-)

[De chromium cob]

If you have the money, get real Neve....If not, get one of the clones....
There are a few cars that are as fast as a 911 for half the price, but theyre not a Porsche....

[djui5]

It's not a Ferrari if you pay $40,000 for it and build it in your garage from .PDF instructions....

[Dot]

Neve's not even Neve anymore like Neve used to be when it was Neve before it changed to Neve without Neve.

Neve is yet another company to jump on the Neve-clone bandwagon.

Even on the AMS Neve site it clearly says

Neve Outboard equipment is faithfully reproduced to the exact standards that Neve has employed ever-since the first modules were made, including the original Neve specifications for all components, design, manufacture and test.

Even Neve is making reproductions.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by Dot
Neve's not even Neve anymore like Neve used to be when it was Neve before it changed to Neve without Neve.

Neve is yet another company to jump on the the Neve-clone bandwagon.

Even on the AMS Neve site it clearly says
Even Neve is making reproductions.

Can't argue with that... The only "true" Neve stuff from Neve is from the old days of Neve. So, since Neve left Neve did Neve loose all of it's Neve-ishness?? Did I win the amount of times you can put the word Neve in a post? Damm, you beat me...

[Geoff_T]

Originally posted by Dot
Neve's not even Neve anymore like Neve used to be when it was Neve before it changed to Neve without Neve.

Hi

Gosh! What a mouthful! I can see the point you are trying to get across but it overlooks a couple of details...

1. The current rendition of the name Neve (= AMS-Neve) still employ engineers and staff from the original formats of Neve. John Turner (Head of the test department), for instance, was there before I joined in October 1971 and is still there. Is his knowledge and experience worthless? Robin Porter joined a couple of years after me but will still have clocked up around 30 years experience... he's the guy in charge of these "recreations".

2. Nobody knows more about Neve equipment than the folk who have worked there, especially those working there still. All of the drawings, specifications, and design notes are still at AMS-Neve and these, combined with the experience of the original staff, ensure that they (AMS-Neve) know more about Neve than any cloner... and any contract transformer manufacturer... as proved by the point in their announcement and repeated in my original post.

Just 'cos someone (as an extreme example) has an old copy of a Neve diagram out of a handbook and can photocopy the circuit boards does NOT make that person a Neve expert.

[isa215]

well I know this is a topic of hot debate...my own thoughts :

From my experiences so far - I would have to say that the AMS Neve 'rebuilds' are pretty damn close to my impression of an 'original' Neve (1081, 1073) etc. - but this raises the age old question of what exactly qualifies as the 'definitive' 1073 or 1081 etc. ?

All 1073s are not equal...
Chances are , if you buy an 'original' '73, '81 etc. - the unit will have had X number of tech (and not so tech!) hands at it w/ soldering irons (and other things! - glue guns were the worst I've seen!) - possibly non-original transformers, numerous component replacements, possibly mod'd, etc. etc. - hence one persons's racked unit may well end up w/ audible differences to another.

All Neve products are not equal...
Recent years have seen an almost absurd emphasis placed on anything carrying the Neve logo/name - or quoted as 'Neve-inspired' 'Modelled on Neve' etc.. Certainly the semi-mythical status of this name is reflected in the prices that both original and 'cloned' equipment commands. It's important to remember that Neve manufactured many diff. consoles / modules over a considerable number of years. The idea that the name alone should be indicative of how a unit sounds is ridiculous.

Essentially a lot of fuss is being made over a *name* - surely what matters is how a particular unit sounds? Who cares if it has a Neve logo on it, or uses St Ives transformers rather than a later Marinaire-branded tx (seriously - you try telling the difference in a blind test - it's a tough one)
Ultimately we shouldn't even really care what is inside the unit (radioactive and/or hazardous materials withstanding) - if it works and sounds good - use it.

All clones are not equal...
To be fair I don't think I've ever seen a product which advertises itself as being 100% identical to a Neve 1073, 1081 (with the exception of the AMS-Neve reissues). Most products in the 'clone' market are built to sound similar to or are 'inspired by' classic Neve units - with varying degrees of success.
Personally I think it's the differences that can make a product interesting rather than the similarities - they are what makes a particular unit unique rather than 'identical to xxx'.

Really - the only people who could understandably be concerned with whether a product bears the 'Neve' name or not is AMS Neve - for the rest of us, we'll just carry on using our ears - same as we've always done.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

What really miffs me is the nonsense posted on EBay for the gullibly minded.

I have seen at least two relatively cheapo consoles being sold as Neve designed or modelled on a Neve.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

I have seen 1458 and 3503 Oscillators sold as mic pres

And I have had pass through my shop a DA90 rack casing (with the magic "N" on the front cover) that had two quad line input buffer cards from a 51 series inside and cheap pots fitted to the front panel with no silk screening. The audio path was a single 5534 per channel with a reversed line input transformer.

This unit was sold for around $2,000 as a Neve 8 channel mic pre.

If anyone has a query about the authenticity of Neve equipment, please feel free to email me or post to my Ask Geoff forum so that everyone can read about it.

http://www.auroraaudio.net/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

[isa215]

Maybe we should have a 'rogues gallery' of badly-done Neve clones?