Breaks in the middle of projects to keep perspective? Or just full steam ahead?

[Jules]

I've manged to get to a point where I can dictate session planning, days off etc...fairly well

Work for a few days have a day off.. Keep going some more..have a break...

The one area I do struggle with is with out of town clients.. One recently had to stay in a hotel and was so intensly wrapped up in the record that he hated the two day break I called before mixing. The record lable wasn't so into the hotel bill either...

What breaks do you suggest? And how do you deal with folks that could happily work 24-7?
what do your clients do on their days off?

a typical 3 song project or 'single' chargeable 'per track' not per day.

Friday 6pm - 11pm drum set up + basic back line patch in
Sat Noon - 11pm tracking
Sunday - Bass overdubs or day off
Monday Bass and or GTRs
Teusday - Friday overdubbing
sat - set up mix alone
sun Mix alone
Mon mix
Teus mix alone - band in from 7pm for comments on all 3 mixes
Wed - (alone) printing mix and mastering

[crispy]

I've rarely nailed a mix when I've only just finished tracking.

A recent project I did was over two weekends, & the break between sessions allowed me to review the production and add stuff that greatly enhanced the song.

I HATE CLIENTS THAT WILL NOT GIVE ME A BREAK WITH A VENGEANCE!!! I FIND IT INCONSIDERATE AND A SURE FIRE WAY TO REALLY PISS ME OFF!

It's generally OK for them to work 60 hours in three days, they're done at the end & can go home & relax. I've got to get the studio ready for the next bunch of nutters and try and find a way of recharging my batteries at the same time.

I haven't yet found a way to deal with them, but as I'll soon be my own boss & not be answerable to the Studio Manager, no doubt I'll be able to take a tougher line.

Jules, with your out-of-town chaps, why not schedule a mix session a week down the line, give everyone a chance to go home & assess rough mixes?

[neopotato]

I find 36 hours is the minimum time to leave between end of tracking and mix, depending on sleeping patterns. I reicently increased my workload and found a cure to insomnia...Sleep Deprivation. I am a student and it is coming up to end of semister. Once concert Recording, one film score, one rock band EP and one Research Assignment due all in three weeks. The Concert recording is a performance of Steve Reich. Music for 18 musicians. Very Exciting and Scary Running 8 track digital and ptle rig. lots of limitations

[Jules]

I find leaving TOO much time during breaks can be a VERY bad thing for my productions. Over analization and paranoia CAN set in!
to be honest I count on the artist not to really study the work too much. I make a lot of decisions during sessions and don't appreciate them all getting unraveled during the time off. I liken it to a sweater that has just been knitted, you don't want to pull too hard on the lose ends at the bottom or the whole thing may come appart!!!

Too much time off can be a bad thing too eh?

wacha think???

[neopotato]

After 3 or so days you start to forget what stuff sounds like and you have to re-familiarize yourself with the material i find. To long of and i forget all the shitty things i have to fix

[BrianT]

IMO, taking breaks, at least from a full album production, is probably just below the songwriting quality in importance. Huge, at least for me.

It's far too easy to hype each other into being too easily pleased, due to loss of perspective, without breaks.

I'm sure it has much to do with individual psychology, but for me, I will always make a better record with a couple of decent sized breaks in the process, either working on totally unrelated music, or no music at all. For perspective, though, I often spend months on a single album when producing, so maybe we are comparing apples and oranges if we're also including 1 week projects, which I see rarely.


Regards,
Brian T

[Ted Nightshade]

Brian T sez: "IMO, taking breaks, at least from a full album production, is probably just below the songwriting quality in importance. Huge, at least for me.

It's far too easy to hype each other into being too easily pleased, due to loss of perspective, without breaks."

I'm with this, but I'm not a fulltime studio running type of guy.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by BrianT

It's far too easy to hype each other into being too easily pleased, due to loss of perspective, without breaks.

A-MEN!

Tony Clarke, the original Moody Blues producer once told me "We finish an album including everything we can find to fix. Then we take six weeks off and come back to REALLY finish the album!" Objectivity is often the single hardest part of the process.

At Motown we dealt with it by having different people do the mixing and a quality control person who decided what needed to be fixed and what didn't.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
A-MEN!

...and a quality control person who decided what needed to be fixed and what didn't.

Hey Bob,

Quick question...who was this person usually and how were they chosen? Was it an engineer or an exec?

Just curious.

[Fat Cat]

I think Bob eluded to somthing very important...a real Producer.

I think that a great engineer can also produce very well, but having someone who has a final say-so come in from time to time during tracking and mixing is invaluable to the Artist.

Separate tracking engineer, mix engineer, mastering engineer with a Producer to watch over the project, really is a great formula.
Damn I envy great Producers.

Since I run my own place like Jules, I too have to be the engineer and producer for most work that I do. So I sympathize with needing breaks.

For the trash-for-cash projects I mix and master same day, but for more serious artists, I always tell them that I will not mix the same day that we track. And that we should take at least one day off..mix, then remix a week later. The last few albums I did were mixed over 2 days then remixed/touched up a week later in 1 day and they turned out great.

If you lose interest in the project during the break , then the break is too long.

[BevvyB]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
A-MEN!

Tony Clarke, the original Moody Blues producer once told me "We finish an album including everything we can find to fix. Then we take six weeks off and come back to REALLY finish the album!" Objectivity is often the single hardest part of the process.

This is actually the only way to do it.

Never mind. Nice position to be in.

[Steve Smith]

The longer the braek the better, for me. I really like it when i can track another project between tracking and mixing the first.. I just did a local guys indie, and it took him a few months between tracking and mixing to get the funds and such together, man, it was great to go back in and actually have forgotten some of the songs structure, and def having forgotten most all of the pre concieved notions of how it should be. ( not the good ideas, those get written down.) thr real eye opener for me was that I trashed 75% of the rough mixes I had saved as starting points.

[7rojo7]

It depends on the artist and the music, sometimes you can track and mix a piece at the same time, I like to do the fixes when you have the same sound up, with some groups a lot of things can change between songs (insruments, vibe) When you concentrate on one tune at a time you can really nail it. It helps to have completely independant mixes for the CR and the musicians. I always try to track as if I'm doing live to 2, of course I have a backup. After checking everything and being confident that I'm providing good sounds, I almost never have to check and I can concentrate on mixing, if it sounds good the band is really hyped.
When overdubbing it really sucks to switch between a rocker and a ballad and try to put yourself in the right place for a record.
Of course this wouldn't work with some groups who just want to concentrate on tracking, then fixing (I always fix on the spot anyway) then overdubbing etc... And although it may seem like a more expensive way to do it, in the end I don't think it makes a big difference.
I always ask before we start how we want to approach things, and I always remain flexible (if a group is hot let them play, if they're not sometimes the change can help, take three of song B after song C is already finished).
For quite some time I refuse to work more than 10 hrs and not more than 6 hrs in a row. With a reasonable meal break it still turns into 12 hrs, but I think that this limit helps me endure the long run. I've done 40 hrs in a row a few times and it destroys you for days, or 14 hrs 6 days in a row for 3 months is a killer.
These days where recall is a snap, there's no need to kill yourself or work a project into the dirt, you can change in a minute. The quick mixes you do during takes can be revised at the end with out all the ancient rituals.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
...who was this person usually and how were they chosen? Was it an engineer or an exec?

The original QC person, besides Berry Gordy himself, was an absolutely brilliant woman named Billie Jean Brown. When she left to have a baby around 1965, Brian Holland took over her job. Billie Jean came back after a few years and followed the company out to California.

Assistants included Norman Whitfield, Iris Gordy, and Clay McMurray. Billie Jean was probably the most universally hated person at the company. Those of us who spent a lot of time working directly with her realized that this was mostly because she had an uncanny knack of being absolutely right most of the time! She's now an attorney in Los Angeles.

It was an interesting process. The only other label I know for sure did pretty much the same thing was A&M while it was under its original management.