Neve clones - the final chapter

[T-rex]

To answer Jules original question, I don't think it's the end of the clones by any stretch. I think that all the clones will have to immediately stop using the name "neve" in their literature etc., but the actual making of clone equipment would be a much harder hill to climb.

It would be a bit of negative PR for Neve, from the little guy. Let's face it, people who can afford the real deal, buy the real deal. People who can't afford the real deal post questions on forums asking which is the best clone. If clones are no longer available a few may pony up the dollars for the real thing, but most likely they will go in another direction and be unhappy about it.

Carol Shelby did EXACTLY that thing concerning the Cobra and the "clone" cobra replica's. He spent years of litigation and the most he got was making the replica makers take the words Shelby and Cobra out of their advertising. I think the fact that he let it go on for 25 years and an entire industry built itself up around the Cobra was part of the legal reason he couldn't get any more action than that. It's a very similiar scenario.

[AnalogBob]

If Neve doesn't wan't people to do clones instead of spending the money on layers.....they should form another company..a la top secret and make a very attractive neve clone to compete with the neve clones...but of course leave the real deal that 10% better.....oh get it manufactured in china...and blow away the competion....

[Tim Farrant]

I am sure that Mr Meisner has enough spare cash to pursue this, but, it does raise the question, is it actually "ethical" for a manufacturer to copy a circuit designed by somebody else - wether or not the copyright or patent has elapsed? I spoke to several key industry gear designers at AES about this very subject and they all shared the same sentiment - no, it is not.

Tim.

[username]

I wonder if the portico stuff will have to start advertising as the Rupert N portico? wouldn't seem right to stop the guy advertising it was made by him

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by username

I wonder if the portico stuff will have to start advertising as the Rupert N portico? wouldn't seem right to stop the guy advertising it was made by him

FYI, Leo Fender couldn't use his name for his later designs and so they became Music Man and G+L. But it was HIM that sold the company to CBS originally.

It just happened that the brand name was also his last name, you wouldn't worry about Steve Jobs not being allowed to use the names 'Apple' or 'Mac' after selling his company.

We should stop worrying about the affairs of people like Rupert Neve, I guess he is fine doing things on his own.

Although I can understand the concerns of AMS Neve,with so many people making
bucks with their trademark, it also goes to show how retro the whole thing has become.

'Protecting' vintage designs has become more important than pushing the envelope and creating equipment that would make the 'classics' obsolete.

But it's the same with the music industry, 'protecting' music (i.e too-high prices for CDs and stupid things like copy-protection that make the honest buyer feel like a little child) has become more important than developing new artists and caring about quality.

[T-rex]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

'Protecting' vintage designs has become more important than pushing the envelope and creating equipment that would make the 'classics' obsolete.

But it's the same with the music industry, 'protecting' music (i.e too-high prices for CDs and stupid things like copy-protection that make the honest buyer feel like a little child) has become more important than developing new artists and caring about quality.

Now that's the best thing I have seen on this forum in a while. . .

[gpcramseysoral]

Originally Posted by T-rex

To answer Jules original question, I don't think it's the end of the clones by any stretch. I think that all the clones will have to immediately stop using the name "neve" in their literature etc., but the actual making of clone equipment would be a much harder hill to climb.

It would be a bit of negative PR for Neve, from the little guy. Let's face it, people who can afford the real deal, buy the real deal. People who can't afford the real deal post questions on forums asking which is the best clone. If clones are no longer available a few may pony up the dollars for the real thing, but most likely they will go in another direction and be unhappy about it.

Carol Shelby did EXACTLY that thing concerning the Cobra and the "clone" cobra replica's. He spent years of litigation and the most he got was making the replica makers take the words Shelby and Cobra out of their advertising. I think the fact that he let it go on for 25 years and an entire industry built itself up around the Cobra was part of the legal reason he couldn't get any more action than that. It's a very similiar scenario.

I agree, and buy the way Louisville is the shit!

[T-rex]

Originally Posted by gpcramseysoral

I agree, and buy the way Louisville is the shit!

Yeah man, I love this town.

Speaking of towns, I played the Muse in Nashville a month or so ago with Light from Detroit and a local band, although I can't remember their name. I need to get to Nashville more often.

[BenLoftis]

Originally Posted by Tim Farrant

I am sure that Mr Meisner has enough spare cash to pursue this, but, it does raise the question, is it actually "ethical" for a manufacturer to copy a circuit designed by somebody else - wether or not the copyright or patent has elapsed? I spoke to several key industry gear designers at AES about this very subject and they all shared the same sentiment - no, it is not.

Tim.

I find this a very strange thing to say. While I agree that an exact trace-for-trace copy of the circuit board would be unethical, I don't think that happens very often. The types of "unethical" circuit designers who are likely to copy a circuit board would probably make drastic changes to make it cheaper/more manufacturable. It is my understanding that the very best designers often copy and improve on each other's designs, and know that others will do the same to them. It's like transcribing a masterpiece before trying to compose your first symphony.

This is even becoming common in software design. In fact there's an entire movement behind it ... Free (as in libre) software is intended to be studied and improved on by future generations of engineers, rather than be a one-shot attempt at perfection.

"Standing on the shoulders of giants", as they say....

-Ben Loftis

[Dirty Halo]

While I do believe in protecting intellectual property, I agree with most of the sentiments here, but there is one point still not mentioned...

Remeber that AMS Neve wasn't even making new "Neve 1073s" when Vintech and Great River started to create a product that we all wanted. It was simple supply and demand. Seems like AMS stepped BACK in when they saw $ to be made.

But worse than that, some of us have fallen for the hype. Other threads here argue that NONE of these clones sound as good as a "real Neve 1073." Well, just read the Mix review of the Vintech 1073 and you'll see how they really ARE as much a 1073 as the "new NEVE 1073." Then they argue that thier patented transformer IS the whole sound. Well, I've heard both back to back, the reviewer (and damn good engineer) heard both back to back and he heard, guess what, 1073s... each slightly different, just like "real" 1073s, but all with "that" sound.

So, the moral of the story is, yes, they have every right to protect their intellectual property, but we have just as much right to use our ears and choose. If we don't fall into the "Neve-name hype" then simple supply and demand will decide what will live and what will die. It's not the same as stealing music, it's more like, you LOVE Led Zepplin but they are not putting out anymore music, some band comes along and does great Zepplin type tunes and sell albums... because we like their sound. Hey, Oasis sold plenty of albums sounding like a new Beatles, right?

Anyway, the ears have it.

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com

With that said, we've received a bunch a great reviews as an orignal band, yet we get compared to Bowie and T-Rex, etc. Should we get a lawyer...I mean another one?

[GilWave]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

we've received a bunch a great reviews as an orignal band, yet we get compared to Bowie and T-Rex, etc. Should we get a lawyer...

Only if he/she'll be a Jeepster for your Love.

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by RKrizman

Some funny ironies here, expecially since AMS Neve is using the name of someone who is no longer affiliated with them. In a way, that makes their own 1073 a clone. The only difference is that they purchased the trademark.

If Vintech purchased the Neve trademark from AMS would their 1073 then suddenly be the "real" one?

-R

No, but Vintech would then have the legal right to use the name.

[Family Hoof]

dfegad

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Well, just read the Mix review of the Vintech 1073 and you'll see how they really ARE as much a 1073 as the "new NEVE 1073."

[Dirty Halo]

Good point with the pissing monkey and all, that really adds to the information and quality of debate. Man, you're so clever with the cut-n-paste art.

So, do you OWN 1073s? If so, by all means, please tell us why they are better than the origianl handbuilt Vintechs or are you just jumping on the bandwagon and buying a name hook, line and sinker? thumbsup

[Shaman]

Here we go again....as soon as somebody says the N.....73 word Gearslutz is on fire

[goom]

I wanted to get a Seventh Circle N72 kit in a few months...hoping they'll still sell 'em.

[MGA]

Speaking of Neve clones, are there any companies out there that clone the 31102 & 31105 modules? Most Neve cloners seem to clone the 1073, 1081 or 1272 modules.

[Family Hoof]

Originally Posted by MGA

Speaking of Neve clones, are there any companies out there that clone the 31102 & 31105 modules? Most Neve cloners seem to clone the 1073, 1081 or 1272 modules.

These guys used to, but I don't know about their current product line. http://www.shep.co.uk/shep.htm

[MGA]

Originally Posted by Family Hoof

These guys used to, but I don't know about their current product line. http://www.shep.co.uk/shep.htm

Thanks Family Hoof. I'll check them out.

[84K]

Shep makes my favorite (insert N Word) clone. We have quite a bit of original Neve modules, and many times I prefer the Shep SN8s over the original Neves. A certain highly respected (on this forum.. and others) dealer said some bad things about Shep a few years ago, that was end of me trusting his word. When I first used them I was as blown and I still am. They rock. For Real. thumbsup A MUST HEAR.


P.S. I am referring to the SN8 modules post design revision.