Black Lion Audio?

[Khaos Phreak]

im thinking of getting a Digi 003R with the signature series mod.

the guys at BLA Assure me over and over thte mod will out preform any apogge converter and any pro tools hd converter no problem and with the mic pre upgrades and their internal clock its good to go for pro production right off the bat.

so my questiions are, are the converters really better than the industry standard rosetta 800 or a 96 i/O?

are the pre's really so good i dont need a external pre on the first 4 channels?

is the clock really better than the industry standard big ben?...

please anyone who has the mods or has compared them to the peices of gear i mentioned let me know your opinion.

[tampa]

I'm not sure the BLA upgrades are actually worth the money you have to spend to get them. Why not just put the money toward the real deal? IMHO if you upgrade a Digi 003 box , it's still a Digi 003 box when it comes time to deal it.

BLA offers upgrades for the Behringer ADA 8000 at a cost of about $450 plus the cost of the original unit. You can buy a pre amp for that kind of money that will be just as good.

[Khaos Phreak]

Originally Posted by tampa

I'm not sure the BLA upgrades are actually worth the money you have to spend to get them. Why not just put the money toward the real deal? IMHO if you upgrade a Digi 003 box , it's still a Digi 003 box when it comes time to deal it.

BLA offers upgrades for the Behringer ADA 8000 at a cost of about $450 plus the cost of the original unit. You can buy a pre amp for that kind of money that will be just as good.

i wanted the mod originaly to clear up the analog stage and eliminate the "haze 003's (or all le hardware for that matter) Produce and then add a rosetta 800 and big ben (or antelope) Clock.
but when i looked into it they claim the mod makes the converters and clock above a rosetta/big ben combos quality...and they claim the pre's are very clean and on par with api's old pre's...

so this thread is to find out if they are seriously on par with a rosetta/big ben/api chain...or if i should just add a rosetta/big ben /liquid channel to my system?

[digitrax]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

...are the converters really better than the industry standard rosetta 800 or a 96 i/O?

are the pre's really so good i dont need a external pre on the first 4 channels?

is the clock really better than the industry standard big ben?

First off, it's debatable whether those are "industry standard" (whatever that means) benchmarks, but I will address the easiest of those questions (the 2nd) and say this:
Modifying a piece of gear which will always have a place in your signal chain makes sense. Digital (and hybrid) gear has a relatively limited shelf life, and is more than likely going to be replaced sooner than later. If you upgrade your conversion by adding an outboard A/D (and feeding the 003 digitally), you'll still have that improvement even after you upgrade to HD or the 004 (which I assumed will inevitably what Digi will tell you "have to have"). If you do so internally, then discover that you want a different interface, you'll lose the pre-amp improvement with your A/D's.

As far as the mic preamp, even if the mod is "so good i don't need an external pre", the point of external pre's is more than quailty - it's versatility.
If mics are like paints, then pre's are like brushes - some paint in broad strokes with hazy edges, some create thinner lines with great definition, some texture the paint as it's applied, some lay it on flat.
I can say with some confidence that somewhere down the road, you'll want a few different (not necessarily better) pre's.

[digitrax]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

...and they claim the pre's are very clean and on par with api's old pre's...

Are they claiming the sound like the old API's...or just that they're "as clean" as them? The character of the API's is what makes them desirable, not the "cleanliness."

Nothing against BLA - they do great work. Just wouldn't be my move.

[Khaos Phreak]

Originally Posted by digitrax

Are they claiming the sound like the old API's...or just that they're "as clean" as them? The character of the API's is what makes them desirable, not the "cleanliness."

they said that they were "comparable" to api's
and just as clean

[dan481]

I have the Tweak Head Mod on my 003 and it's great. Definitely makes a huge improvement to its stock sound and the pres are very nice. If you can afford to buy separate pres, converters, clock, etc, that's great and they will obviously outlive the 003 itself like has been mentioned. On the other hand, for how affordable the price of the mod is, value wise I don't think you can beat it. You can get the 003 and the Signature Series for something like $2500 (maybe a bit less). The Rosetta itself will already set you back a bit more than that on its own. And I don't know if the conversion or clock is better than the Rosetta/Big Ben, but it's definitely in the same league.

It really all depends what you're looking for, but I definitely don't think you'll regret it if you decide to get it!

-Dan

[riantide]

Another TweakHead customer here, and very pleased. I went with the BLA mod because it made the most sense for my situation. I have a home studio that I work out of a lot, and I take it seriously, but it's not my main source of income. $800 to greatly improve my converters and clock and make the preamps useable (notice I didn't say great, I'll address that momentarily) is worth it to me, and that's exactly what i got. I noticed an improvement the second I started listening to music through it, I have better imaging and better translation after the mod for sure.

As for the mic pre: I will not speak to the Signature mod on the pres, which I have not heard, but the notion that the pres I now have on channels 1-4 are anywhere in the same league as an API is very far-fetched. The pres that you get after the TH mod are barely useable in my personal opinion, and I haven't really found anything other than toms and scratches that I'm willing to track with them. Obviously that's very subjective and YMMV.

I really got the mod for the converters, clock, and power supply. Now admittedly I'm getting a Lavry Blue 2-channel A/D this month, but that's so I can have two channels of great conversion and then 8 channels of good conversion, which will cover my needs at present.

On the whole, I think the mod (TH, at least) is totally worth it. Just don't expect to have a Rosetta 800, a Big Ben, and four API pres when it's all said and done. Obviously some more input from actual Signature mod customers is needed here!

Best of luck!

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

im thinking of getting a Digi 003R with the signature series mod.

the guys at BLA Assure me over and over thte mod will out preform any apogge converter and any pro tools hd converter no problem and with the mic pre upgrades and their internal clock its good to go for pro production right off the bat.

The stock 003 is good enough for pro production right off the bat.

[dannycurtean@yah]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

im thinking of getting a Digi 003R with the signature series mod.

the guys at BLA Assure me over and over thte mod will out preform any apogge converter and any pro tools hd converter no problem and with the mic pre upgrades and their internal clock its good to go for pro production right off the bat.

so my questiions are, are the converters really better than the industry standard rosetta 800 or a 96 i/O?

are the pre's really so good i dont need a external pre on the first 4 channels?

is the clock really better than the industry standard big ben?...

please anyone who has the mods or has compared them to the peices of gear i mentioned let me know your opinion.

All I can tell you is that my studio got the FF 800 upgrade with the Micro Clock and there are no words in the English language to begin to describe the positive difference that you hear, its really something else. Just try it...

[Gerax]

Whether or not is it an improvement on sound, do you really think is it wise to spend the same amount of its price for a mod on a prosumer piece of gear that will have a lifespan of roughly 3 years before it gets out of Digidesign support?
I just upgraded my old 002R to an used 003R (well...it was a Factory demo unit with bonus plug ins to be honest...so I got a good deal as I got € 600 for the 002 and payed the same for the 003...), and for my home studio setup it works great (paired with an additional 8ch AD/DA converter and Dangerous summing box/analog outboard), but I just keep it in the realom of a project/home setup. It works great and I can get some pretty good sounding mixes aout of this setup, but I wouldn't spend an € on a PT dongle that will be dropped out of support in a amatter of years. It's not an analog machine that one can keep for its life...with digital you are exposed to forced obsolescence...and on top of that, when you'll sell it on the used market (or trade it in for a new unit) how are you going to justify the additional cost of the mod to the buyer, or the fact that it's not original anymore to the Digi rep?

L.G.

[Khaos Phreak]

Originally Posted by Gerax

Whether or not is it a really improvement on sound, do you really think is wise to spend the same amount of its price for a mod on a prosumer piece of gear that will have a lifespan of roughly 3 years before it gets out of Digidesign support?
I just upgraded my old 002R to an used 003R (well...it was a Factory demo unit with bonus plug ins to be honest...so I got a good deal as I got € 600 for the 002 and payed the same for the 003...), and for my home studio setup it works great (paired with an additional 8ch AD/DA converter and Dangerous summing box/analog outboard), but I just keep it in the realom of a project/home setup. It works great and I can get some pretty good sounding mixes aout of this setup, but I wouldn't spend an € on a PT dongle that will be dropped out of support in a amatter of years. It's not an analog machine that one can keep for its life...with digital you are exposed to forced obsolescence...and on top of that, when you'll sell it on the used market (or trade it in for a new unit) how are you going to justify the additional cost of the mod to the buyer, or the fact that it's not original anymore to the Digi rep?

L.G.

like i said i find it hard to beleive its really as good as they say. and i'd rather go with a rosetta 800 and a liquid pre' and a ISA 428 but thats obviously a HUGE different in price so i was thinking if by any chance the 003 upgraded is going to sound like a hd system i'd buy that to work with while i save up for my HD2 system and the rosetta/liquid pre/ISA 428

[Gerax]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

like i said i find it hard to beleive its really as good as they say. and i'd rather go with a rosetta 800 and a liquid pre' and a ISA 428 but thats obviously a HUGE different in price so i was thinking if by any chance the 003 upgraded is going to sound like a hd system i'd buy that to work with while i save up for my HD2 system and the rosetta/liquid pre/ISA 428

I'd say save up your cash and try to work the best you can with what you have now (003R or whatever), then buy the right setup and be happy from day one.

[pinky]

I have the 002r with the signature mod and I love it. It really has made a difference in my productions. The 002r sig mod is supposed to sound even better than the 003r sig mod but I don't know very much about that. To make claims that the pres sound like API pres or RED pres (which is what I was told by BLA) is kinda ridiculous. Let me put it this way though, I had a sytek mpx-4aii and after I got the 002r with the mod I sold the sytek because even though theyre a much different flavor, the pres on the bla002 are at least as good, maybe better.
I went from the stock 003r and My monitoring difference felt like a night and day change. My mixes after being tracked with the bla 002 and API and NEVE preamps, and listening through a better DA sound clearer and more open and with more detail and not only I have heard the difference. My small but growing clientele can hear it too and are more pleased with the what I'm giving them to give to their Mixer or ME or my home masters.

The one reason I'll sell the 002r soon is that I want the processing power of TDM. I bet the HD converters aren't any better than the BLA stuff but I think that the big difference in sound between PT HD and PT LE with whatever high end converters/clocking and pres is going to be what's happeneing ITB, the better sound of more DSP heavy plugs and of course your mixing skills.

Other than that I think this box, especially for it's price is a godsend. I wouldn't even mess with the TH mods, go for the signature. I think I would have been dissapointed with anything less.

[pinky]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

like i said i find it hard to beleive its really as good as they say. and i'd rather go with a rosetta 800 and a liquid pre' and a ISA 428 but thats obviously a HUGE different in price so i was thinking if by any chance the 003 upgraded is going to sound like a hd system i'd buy that to work with while i save up for my HD2 system and the rosetta/liquid pre/ISA 428

Exactly my point. Once I got the BLA 002 I started buying outboard compressors and Neve and Api pres and higher end monitors. Now that I've got those under my belt I'm going for an HD system for the processing power, not because I think my outboard stuff is gonna sound any better running through different converters/clock because I don't imagine that it will.

Hope this helps

[Hammyham]

Originally Posted by Stryke Nyne

im thinking of getting a Digi 003R with the signature series mod.

the guys at BLA Assure me over and over thte mod will out preform any apogge converter and any pro tools hd converter no problem and with the mic pre upgrades and their internal clock its good to go for pro production right off the bat.

so my questiions are, are the converters really better than the industry standard rosetta 800 or a 96 i/O?

are the pre's really so good i dont need a external pre on the first 4 channels?

is the clock really better than the industry standard big ben?...

please anyone who has the mods or has compared them to the peices of gear i mentioned let me know your opinion.

If you like I can send you some clips from a shoot out I did with a Signature Series and a HD 96I/O Accel 2. I will also send you a drum clip from a project I did running all the mics thru the Modded 002 pre's. Send me your email address. I also posted the clips here but if you can't find them let me know and I will send them to you. All the best,

Peace,

Hamilton

[Hammyham]

Originally Posted by Hammyham

If you like I can send you some clips from a shoot out I did with a Signature Series and a HD 96I/O Accel 2. I will also send you a drum clip from a project I did running all the mics thru the Modded 002 pre's. Send me your email address. I also posted the clips here but if you can't find them let me know and I will send them to you. All the best,

Peace,

Hamilton

And by the way, the Rosetta 800 and HD neither of them have pre's. They are just AD/DA converters.

Peace,

Hamilton

[jimmydeluxe]

I have (and am now selling) a Motu 896HD that they modded--it was night and day after the mod. I added the Microclock and sold my Cranesong Hedd due to the improvement, and haven't missed the CSH (and enjoyed having the leftover cash). Yesterday, I got an 002 tweak so I could have flexibility with clients (and they said it would sound better than the 896. It does sound a bit better--more definition in the bass, mainly, but they are close (002 and motu). Bottom line, I am a shameless BLA fanboi. I make my living from production, and they have helped me compete with major budgets and studios in my two bedroom house.

I don't know that I'll ever need the sig mod, but I'm curious, just like how I was curious how the 002 tweak could sound better than my Motu.

In short, do it.

[Rednose]

How is the BLA MOTU 2408 analog stage mod?

[mikethedrummer]

Originally Posted by Hammyham

If you like I can send you some clips from a shoot out I did with a Signature Series and a HD 96I/O Accel 2. I will also send you a drum clip from a project I did running all the mics thru the Modded 002 pre's. Send me your email address. I also posted the clips here but if you can't find them let me know and I will send them to you. All the best,

Peace,

Hamilton

I would love to hear this shootout. Can you put up a link?

[Hammyham]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer

I would love to hear this shootout. Can you put up a link?

It's been up for a bit. Just do a search here and you should find it.

Peace,

Hamilton

[Hammyham]

Originally Posted by Hammyham

It's been up for a bit. Just do a search here and you should find it.

Peace,

Hamilton

Sorry Mike,

Did you mean the drums? If so, no but send me your email and I will send you something.

Peace,

Hamilton

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by Mayor999

The stock 003 is good enough for pro production right off the bat.

True!

[evillain]

got a signature series mod on my 002.

the single greatest thing i ever did. worth every penny. sounds incredible.

i have worked on a few HD rigs.

the BLA sounds better.

[tapehiss]

BLA sig mod to my 002 was the biggest improvement i have ever experienced in fidelity regarding my home setup..

i have no fear of comparing the home mixes with the commercial studio tracking jobs i hear now...

it truly gave me a boner to experience my newfound fidelity.

[JES]

I had BLA mod a MOTU 828mk2 (I picked up a microclock at the same time) and am very happy with the results. Sonically, I would say it is comparable with my Apogee Duet (which I use more only because of its small form factor). They don't sound the same, but they both sound good. The pres are clean.

That said, someday I might unload both pieces for something that has the Duet's small size and simplicity and more inputs and outputs. But that has more to do with my workflow than the quality of the gear.

--JES

[PDC]

Originally Posted by evillain

got a signature series mod on my 002.

the single greatest thing i ever did. worth every penny. sounds incredible.

i have worked on a few HD rigs.

the BLA sounds better.

statesments like this blow me away.

Did you A/B them side by side with the same clock and source? We have no real memory in our auditory system. I suspect there is something else at play here.

[Lenzo]

I had the signature done on my 002r. BLA did a great job. Very timely and helpful. A huge sonic improvement over the stock 002r.
L.

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by PDC

I suspect there is something else at play here.

Bingo!

[jeremy.c.]

My biggest advice against the BLA stuff is resale value. I made money selling my Rosetta 800, I lost almost half of my investment selling my BLA modded 1814. The 1814 isn't a 003 in terms of desirability, but soon the 003 will be obsolete and you'll be holding a piece you have no hope of getting much of your investment out of. Of course if you're making money with it it's all good and paying for itself, but why not get that piece that makes you money and has resale value? Its ultimately about workflow as there are other pieces out there in a similar price range, so if the 003 works for you, why not upgrade it? BLA does good work.
The other thing I would like to add is that the BLA tweakhead mod made my preamps useable. Useable is the key word, not great, not amazing, but useable. This is understandable as the form factor is small and there isn't much you can do with such a simple circuit other than make it clean and add gain, however, my Steinberg MR816 out of the box has 8 highly useable preamps and pretty amazing conversion and would set you back about 1/4 the cost of a similar 003. You can't use it with PT I know, but that should give you some idea of what you're paying for.
I still think external preamps are the way to go. Another product that is dirt cheap and sounds amazing but doesn't have the sexy resale factor are the SCA preamps, a few of those with a Rosetta goes a long long way.