Favourite snare bottom mic

[blackcom]

I allways end up using dynamic mics on the snare bottom.
Usually I have an SM57 on the top, but what do you guyes use for the bottom.

So so far i've been having good results with:

SM57
Beta57
Beta57A
MD441

What about the rest of you, and what's the deal with so many prefering the SM57 over the Beta57/A for bottom snare?

[84K]

e22s on all tops and bottoms

snare and toms that is...

Life is good

[Enzo Polotso]

57s have been sounding a bit meh for me (probably because i lack any good pres) anyone have any luck with condensors (AT4040, Rode K2, blah)? md421?

[AlexLakis]

Sometimes I use an SM81 on the bottom...captures a nice brilliant snare sound, good for definition on songs with a lot of ghost hits on the snare. I end up getting most of the body of the drum sound from the top in these instances.

[Kenny Gioia]

I'm using an Oktava MK012 on the bottom. 57 on top.

Lovin it.

[Drumsound]

NONE!

[wwittman]

usually none.
If needed, KM-84... same as on top

[Matt Grondin]

I always find the snare bottom mic a little bright since I've typically used dynamics... has anyone ever tried a ribbon for this? Would it be dangerous to the ribbon?

[Slipperman]

Haven't used a bottom snare mic in years in tracking in my shop.

Haven't used anybody else's bottom snare mic in mix in a decade.

It's hilariously awful to me that some people would decide to mic the snare bottom and then NOT mic the hihat.

Great.

I'll get some fizzy BS that NEVER reaches anybody's ears in a room situation on the snare drum, and the hihats will sound like they are 6 feet away from the snare and have miserable 'locational cues' in the aggregate "close mix" fray.

Eek.

To each their own, I guess.

Best regards,

SM.

[joeq]

no bottom mic for me.

never underestimate the value of a fresh set of snare wires.

and don't be cheap, those fancy-ass boutique snare wires are actually worth the money

[adamcal]

I always stick a C414uls under there, always on a separate track, and at mix time just tuck it in under the top mic about 5 to 15 db below, I'm just looking for some snare buzz, top end rattle. may prefer to do that than eq the top snare mic and bring up the hats and cymbal spill in the process.

[Doublehelix]

I love the Sennheiser MD441 under there. I use it most times.

[Winey]

I love bottom snare. I always track it.
I like a LDC down low by the kick picking up both kick and snare.
Helps out the kick and the snare sound overall.

[cgarges]

I often don't use one, but when I do I usually prefer some sort of beefy dynamic, like a Sennheiser 421, 504, or 441, Beyer M201, or Audix D4. The last couple of sessions I've done, I've tried the Shure KSM 141 and it smokes. I'm usually one for using the bottom mic to get a little more depth overall from the drum rather than the crispness of the snares, so I don't usually go for bright small diaphragm mics. The 141 is a great blend of both. I'm getting to really love that mic more and more.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[not_so_new]

Funny this is actually something I am dealing with now. For years I have used a bottom snare mic (414 is my fav) but my setup has changed and to get a bottom snare mic in on my rig would take a little finagling.

Long story short I have been using only 1 snare mic and I have got to say I am digging it so far. My problem is forcing myself to do something alien from my "standard" setup. Change is good but painting myself in a corner because of a change scares me.... As it is now no bottom snare for me and it is working well.

[Kenny Gioia]

For years I didn't use a bottom snare mic.

I miked the snare by pointing it at the side. Right at that shell.

With this setup the snares come thru really well.

You do lose some punch so I started miking on top again. I was losing that top end and I hate the sound of the top skin when you crank up 3K to make it sit in the mix.

So I use that bottom mic just for the brightness. The top skin gives me punch.

And the real magic comes when you put the Overheads in. That is key.

Your drums need to sound great thru the Overs or your dead.

You hear that? Dead I tell ya.

And at all costs, avoid the Hi Hat mic. Waste of time.

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by Produceher

And the real magic comes when you put the Overheads in. That is key.

Your drums need to sound great thru the Overs or your dead.

You hear that? Dead I tell ya.

And at all costs, avoid the Hi Hat mic. Waste of time.

Yes

Yes

Yes

and

HWLL YEA!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Produceher

For years I didn't use a bottom snare mic.

I miked the snare by pointing it at the side. Right at that shell.

With this setup the snares come thru really well.

You do lose some punch so I started miking on top again. I was losing that top end and I hate the sound of the top skin when you crank up 3K to make it sit in the mix.

So I use that bottom mic just for the brightness. The top skin gives me punch.

And the real magic comes when you put the Overheads in. That is key.

Your drums need to sound great thru the Overs or your dead.

You hear that? Dead I tell ya.

And at all costs, avoid the Hi Hat mic. Waste of time.

Yes

Yes

Yes

and..

Kind of a general statement isn't that? I mean a hat mic might not be important for a basher but if you don't mic Carter Beauford's hat you might be kicking yourself come mix time and that is no slap against bashers of the world.

Some styles, players, drums/cymbals, mixes and rooms just call for a hat mic don't they? They do for me anyway. I am not the best drummer in the world (what can you expect for a guitar player..) but I am pretty good. I have spent a long time working on my internal dynamics and if I don't have a hat mic when cutting a track it can get lost come mix time or I have to push it up when tracking which is not as comfortable......

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by slipperman

It's hilariously awful to me that some people would decide to mic the snare bottom and then NOT mic the hihat..

Although i often don't mic the snare bottom, I almost NEVER mic the HH and, simialr to you (or a corrolary) I almost NEVER end up using other people's HH mics in a mix.

The thing is usualy plenty loud enough for me without a mic on it.

Whereas, sometimes, if a snare is only close mic'ed, the sound off the close top mic doesn't get enough of the goooshy SNARE sound that makes it sound like a real snare drum and not a rim-meets-a-timbale.

With looser, more ambient, less close, drum mic'ing this is less of an issue.
So in thsoe cases, where the snare sound i mostly coming from more distant mics ANYWAY, the bottom head mic is less often needed.

But I don;t disdain whatever works for other people.
i can only ever speak to what works for ME.

Unless it comes to using multiple mic pres as "choices" to match microphones, or intruments.
That's just dumb <g>

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Y
Kind of a general statement isn't that? I mean a hat mic might not be important for a basher but if you don't mic Carter Beauford's hat you might be kicking yourself come mix time and that is no slap against bashers of the world.

Its guys like Carter Beaufort that make me hate hat mics even more!

[Joel Hamilton]

I rarely use a bottom snare mic. If I do, it would probably be whatever I grabbed that day based on the way the person plays. Usually a condenser of some sort, but not always. Something like a BLUE mouse, or an 81, or maybe a 451, or something weirdo.

I DO mic the hat sometimes as well, for the same reason. I really think it gives a better overall forward feel to the kit when you have a lot of very aggresive sounds in a mix. Not always, but sometimes. All of this is very case by case....

[blackcom]

I A/B tested an SM57 and a 441 and the 441 came out a little moore "dull" sounding, while the 57 was a littel moore open.... is that why some of you guyes tend to like the 441 on snare bottom?

I even tried a 421 on the bottom...intresting results...

[r0ck1r0ck2]

wel i had nice luck with a Audix D2 about 14" away from the snare....lost the fizz....gotta nice boom
got more crak off the top mic a trash dynamic from india....
about 16" from the snare....

[T-rex]

I sometimes use one, mainly when the snare is not that crackin. I had a little Pro37 that I borrowed from a friend and it has been great under the snare the few times I have used it.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Its guys like Carter Beaufort that make me hate hat mics even more!

I agree, sometimes Carter's hat playing is too much for me as well but it is not my job to like the people I record it is my job to make the people who I record sound as good as I can. That to me means capturing thier style and with Carter, like it or not, you do that with a hat mic.....



Sorry to get OT.

[BobbyPeru]

First off, my favorite bot sn mic is a Neumann 184 lots of times I use a 57 tho.

I always mic bot snare and HH. Sometimes you can get away without the bottom mic, but if the snare is deep 6"+, the strainers are that much further away from the top head and will not pick up enough.

I think the snare sounds more natural with a bottom mic, so, if that's what you're going for, go for it.

FWIW most of the time I use the bottom sn mic to get a sample from and just layer it in to avoid incesant rattle on kick/tom hits. If everyone's playing in the same room, bass notes will set off the bot sn track too.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

[blackcom]

But...do you guys aim the bottom mic at the actuall snares, center, edge?

[warhead]

I use an AT4033 under there just because I have the capability, and it gets blended down or turned off every time. But I'm still in the habit of doing it, sometimes it is beneficial. Since I've switched to an SDC (sE Electronics SE3) snare top though, I don't see the point since it sounds so much more like a snare drum and gives you the entire shell / snares sound.

Speaking of hi hats though, I always mic the hi hat and don't understand why you wouldn't but that's just me. Again it can come in handy during mixdown, it's never brought up much but many times at least a little. I am more often using it a little than not.

WW - But I don;t disdain whatever works for other people.
i can only ever speak to what works for ME.

Unless it comes to using multiple mic pres as "choices" to match microphones, or intruments.
That's just dumb

In many cases I agree with this...but no rules right?

War

[allaccess]

If you're gonna do the whole "tight mic" thing, the snare sound of the drum is going to come from the snare on the bottom of the drum, right? so why wouldn't there be a mic to pick it up? I'm much more a fan of capturing a picture of the whole kit from just a few mics, but whatever works is what's gotta happen... I've mixed stuff where there was no bottom snare, and hence no actual "snare" sound, and there wasn't enough snare in the room sound to make it happen. Not being a sample guy, I did the auratone on the snare deal and mic'ed it up. Back to real snare flavor...

the other fun bottom snare sound that I have seen a bunch of people use is putting the crappiest mic you can find pointing down at the drummer's knee, right next to the kick drum rim, flip the phase and crush with reckless abandon... Distressor, Mini-Limiter... whatever's fast and brutal... gives loads of attack from the kick drum and plenty of trashy snare....

As for the hat, again in the tight mic situation, why shouldn't there be a mic on it? If the groove in a rock song is coming from kick/snare/hat, and you've got nice punchy sounding kick and snare, where does the hat fall in? where is that part of the groove? relegated to leakage? Come on! Try a ribbon up on that hat! beyer 160's rule! Nothing worse than a hat that stabs you in the ear like an ice pick... or put a 57 if you got an extra...

just my 2 cents, but to each their own!

Ryan Hewitt

[allaccess]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

I agree, sometimes Carter's hat playing is too much for me as well but it is not my job to like the people I record it is my job to make the people who I record sound as good as I can. That to me means capturing thier style and with Carter, like it or not, you do that with a hat mic.....

And what about Stewart Copeland? I'd bet there was a mic involved on that hat sound...

Ryan Hewitt