Calling Thrillfactor... about predelays and layers in verbs

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

Thrillfactor, I stumbled across some old post when doing a search for something and you wrote briefly about using PCM42's as verb predelays and layering vocal reverbs. Do you mind diggin' a little deeper into this, I find it very interesting. How do you set that up ? Aux/bus/whatever out from console - PCM42's - reverb1 ? What about the other reverb, you predelay that differently or do you split the signal from the 42's ? Are the 42's set to no repeats, so it's just a delayed signal feeding the verb ? It makes a lot of sense to me so I'm eager to try it out and create a vocalverb setup using a R-880, a Pro03 and whichever of my delays does the job best, I don't have PCM 42's unfortunately. Gimme the details, pleeazze... stike

I basically chain the units together.

I send the vocal through an aux or a buss to the PCM 42, Lexicon 1300S(if stereo),AMS delay or 606 delay and then out to the reverb.

Once in a while i will feed the PCM 42 from the out of a reverb but that's a whole other thread.

If am using 2 reverbs at once i will use two different kinds of predelays to feed each reverb.

I balance both according to the song.

If 2 reverbs don't work i will try a short upfront reverb and cascading delays for longer tails.


Like i said in the thread when setting predelays i am either trying to get the reverb out of the way of the on set of the vocals(for crispier attack) or for shimmery type effect/reverb.


In theory you could setup a send out to a PCM 42 and buss the out to 2 different reverbs in case you only have one.

But that's no fun.

PCM42's are killer on vocals and eletric guitars/acoustic guitars.

You need a couple.

[gainreduction]

Thanx for sharing, much appreciated.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I basically chain the units together.

I send the vocal through an aux or a buss to the PCM 42, Lexicon 1300S(if stereo),AMS delay or 606 delay and then out to the reverb.

Once in a while i will feed the PCM 42 from the out of a reverb but that's a whole other thread.

If am using 2 reverbs at once i will use two different kinds of predelays to feed each reverb.

I balance both according to the song.

If 2 reverbs don't work i will try a short upfront reverb and cascading delays for longer tails.


Like i said in the thread when setting predelays i am either trying to get the reverb out of the way of the on set of the vocals(for crispier attack) or for shimmery type effect/reverb.


In theory you could setup a send out to a PCM 42 and buss the out to 2 different reverbs in case you only have one.

But that's no fun.

PCM42's are killer on vocals and eletric guitars/acoustic guitars.

You need a couple.

This is one of those things that I'm gonna print out and refer to from time to time. I've spent many an hour trying to master these kinds of techniques. Thanks to thrillfactor for being so forthcoming with this stuff.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by max cooper

This is one of those things that I'm gonna print out and refer to from time to time. I've spent many an hour trying to master these kinds of techniques. Thanks to thrillfactor for being so forthcoming with this stuff.

Yes, thanks thrillfactor... very cool.

So on this lines thrill. I am not a big fan of verb on vocals, well not for more up tempo stuff, for me reverb tends to push the vocal back in the mix too much for my taste.

Do you use the same trick as above on faster stuff or do you not use much verb for up tempo recordings? How do you use verbs and delays in more dense uptempo stuff? (for the record I believe we are focusing on different styles, I think I do more rock and heavy than you do so maybe this is not a fair question).

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Yes, thanks thrillfactor... very cool.

So on this lines thrill. I am not a big fan of verb on vocals, well not for more up tempo stuff, for me reverb tends to push the vocal back in the mix too much for my taste.

Its funny i never have this problems these says.

Its the opposite actually clients feeling these is not enough verb on lead.

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Do you use the same trick as above on faster stuff or do you not use much verb for up tempo recordings?.

I mostly play it by ear.

What will work best for the vocals at hand.

I still use reverb on vocals almost 99% of the time.

Once in a while its just H3000 and some Lexicon or Symetrix predelay mixed together but the vocals are usually compressed and bright.

I've posted at least a million times that the EQ/compressor combination you choose in your mixdown is crucial for the lead.

When its right you end up using less efx because the vocals is so present.

Originally Posted by not_so_new

How do you use verbs and delays in more dense uptempo stuff? (for the record I believe we are focusing on different styles, I think I do more rock and heavy than you do so maybe this is not a fair question).

Actually this year i've mixed more rock than i've ever done.


And to be honest the principles still apply.


I've been told i either mix the leads kinda dryish sounding and the backgrounds wet or i do the reverse.

Now do i do this on purpose?

Sometimes.

To be honest i just try to do what works best for the song.


Like i know i like punchy drums,full bass and clear and open vocals.


To me the most crucial sounds in rock are your lead vocal and snare.

I rarely have problems getting the vocals right(comes from mixing so much pop).

For me the trick is getting great a great snare sound in a rock mix.

This is what i constantly agonize on.

From coming from the world of samples its pretty easy to get a humongous and popping snare in the mix through splits and mults.

When dealing with a not so well recorded snare its tougher.

I put a live snare up there with a sax as the toughest sounds to get right if they are not tracked well.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by max cooper

This is one of those things that I'm gonna print out and refer to from time to time. I've spent many an hour trying to master these kinds of techniques. Thanks to thrillfactor for being so forthcoming with this stuff.

One saying i learned long ago:


"Don't be afraid to experiment".


Words i try to live by in the studio everyday.


To this day i still on the way to the studio go through different scenarios in my head of different ways to try things.

And its the first thing i do when i get there.

If it works i will do it till it becomes rote in my head.

If it doesn't i'll scrap it.