who went to school to engineer?

[mesh boogie]

whats up peoples. kinda new to the board. already introduced myself in another thread, but you probably missed it.

im a relatively young dude in the game, only 27. been into music since i was 6 playing piano. started getting the engineering bug in college when i started using sequencers and drum machines and the like. i did not, however, go to school to be an engineer. i have a communications degree

so, my question to you all is who has a degree in audio engineering? this is especially directed at those who make a living off engineering.

i am living as an engineer, and have been in some way or another for the past 2 and a half years. i made my way into the bizness by taking a class at the community college on engineering theory(we learned basic fundamentals of signal flow, tracking, mixing, processing, etc), interning at a local studio, working at a local tv station, then got my big break by wiring a post production facility. i did such a good job wiring that they kept me on as an assistant engineer. i sat with my mentor most days and watched and learned, meanwhile fixing any wiring or being a step up from an intern.

all the while i had my own little set up at the house that i would work on recording rappers and singers.

well i got laid off due to company cutbacks last summer, so for the past year and some change i have been freelancing as an engineer and as a broadcast technician.

this november i will be opening my own studio with a partner and we will be focusing on audio post for commercials as well as recording bands. ideally we will be able to pay the bills with the post work, and have fun with the bands, hopefully integrating the music into a liscensing business my partner already has going.


so, whats your story.

the reason i ask is there seems to be some awfully knowledgable people on this board. y'all make me realize even more than i already did how many gaps in my engineering knowledge i have. i'm sure those will get filled with time, but i was interseted in how long some of you all have been doing this, and how you learned what you learned.

thanks!

oh, and sorry if this has been asked a ton of times. i know how it can be annoying when some new dude comes to a board and asks the same question as the last new guy.

[pixelhead]

Been doing this prof. for 17 years. I went to Recording workshop in Ohio in 1988 then started interning and freelancing all over Chicago then became head at a couple rooms in Chicago. Took a couple years off and I am back into it semi prof. soon to be full time again in my own room.

[mesh boogie]

nice. how much a role do you think school played in your success?

i mean, obviously there are plenty of people who have made it from both sides of the fence.

just wanted to hear some personal stories. thanks for sharing.

[BJohnston]

PHP Code:

Been doing this prof. for 17 years. I went to Recording workshop in Ohio in 1988 then started interning and freelancing all over Chicago then became head at a couple rooms in Chicago. Took a couple years off and I am back into it semi prof. soon to be full time again in my own room. 


I have a similar story, although I've been at it for 13 years and attended an audio school with a BA in Recording Engineering. It means absolutely squat...zilch. What I realized when I started seeking work and getting it was that my knowledge was in its infancy. Even with education in recording no one can teach you the knowledge you gain on your own. Schools, for the most part, can't cover all there is to cover. Some schools teach a basic philosophy that gets really watered down and narrowed as the years go on. There's is No Correct or Incorrect way to mic a guitar cabinet or a vocalist or a (insert instrument). Schools teach the very basics only. I don't care how esteemed the school claims to be. I learn something everyday. New techniques different ways of improving my game. Get a subscription to TapeOp and continue to read this board. Trust me, the world of engineering is a love affair that should always keep your attention and continue to teach you something you would have never tried on your own.
I've got my own room now and It's given me the freedom to pursue projects that I want to dig into. Listen to the veterans on this board. A lot of these guys have been doing this for a long time. It's a really friendly helpfull community. Good luck with everything. Keep striving for perfection.

B

[pixelhead]

What did I get out of School? I learned to be a knobologist. Was school a waste of money? No, I learned the basics. I think it can help if you go into it knowing these are just the basics.

[mesh boogie]

Originally Posted by BJohnston

I have a similar story, although I've been at it for 13 years and attended an audio school with a BA in Recording Engineering. It means absolutely squat...zilch. What I realized when I started seeking work and getting it was that my knowledge was in its infancy. Even with education in recording no one can teach you the knowledge you gain on your own. Schools, for the most part, can't cover all there is to cover. Some schools teach a basic philosophy that gets really watered down and narrowed as the years go on. There's is No Correct or Incorrect way to mic a guitar cabinet or a vocalist or a (insert instrument). Schools teach the very basics only. I don't care how esteemed the school claims to be. I learn something everyday. New techniques different ways of improving my game. Get a subscription to TapeOp and continue to read this board. Trust me, the world of engineering is a love affair that should always keep your attention and continue to teach you something you would have never tried on your own.
I've got my own room now and It's given me the freedom to pursue projects that I want to dig into. Listen to the veterans on this board. A lot of these guys have been doing this for a long time. It's a really friendly helpfull community. Good luck with everything. Keep striving for perfection.

B

yeah, thats pretty much my opinion on it.

when i got out of college, i knew i wanted to pursue this field, but i knew i had A LOT to learn. so i had considered going back to school specifically for engineering.

i decided to take a $300 course at the community college to make sure thats what i wanted to do before i commited to a full program, and what i learned was that experience trumps all schooling. in fact, experience is school.

thats what i love so much about this, i know for a fact that i will continue to learn more and more as time goes.

and you are right, there is not always an exact way to do things.

anyways, thanks again for sharing.

[Kenny Gioia]

I think you have what it takes and have "that" drive or you don't.

A great engineer who went to school would have still been a great engineer without the school.

A bad engineer will benefit very little from school.

It's all about the ability to apply what you learn to your craft.

There is plenty of info out there to read and apply.

[Brandino221]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I think you have what it takes and have "that" drive or you don't.

A great engineer who went to school would have still been a great engineer without the school.

A bad engineer will benefit very little from school.

It's all about the ability to apply what you learn to your craft.

There is plenty of info out there to read and apply.

I must say you are right but to a point. If you have a great ear and you go to school and learn the "rules" and then how to break them, you will learn much faster that way and know alot more. There are alot more things to it then just turning knobs untill something "sounds good" and just setting up mics.
I have seen too many people that have talent but when it comes to engineering they don't know crap about what it is they are talking about. The "I just know what "sounds good" is not an answer not professional. A doctor does not just say in surgery " I just know where to cut and pass me that thing". No, he knows what he is going to do and knows how to communicate to the people he is going to work with. I'm just saying learn what you need to learn so you can understand what you are doing. I'm not saying I know everything but I did go to school and learned alot. It's important to know about these things so you don't look stupid when the time comes that you really need to know so you can communicate with other people in your field. I just think it's important. It's ok if you don't know something but atleast take the time to learn the rules by someone who knows. This will help you in the long run.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I must say you are right but to a point. If you have a great ear and you go to school and learn the "rules" and then how to break them, you will learn much faster that way and know alot more. There are alot more things to it then just turning knobs untill something "sounds good" and just setting up mics.
I have seen too many people that have talent but when it comes to engineering they don't know crap about what it is they are talking about. The "I just know what "sounds good" is not an answer not professional. A doctor does not just say in surgery " I just know where to cut and pass me that thing". No, he knows what he is going to do and knows how to communicate to the people he is going to work with. I'm just saying learn what you need to learn so you can understand what you are doing. I'm not saying I know everything but I did go to school and learned alot. It's important to know about these things so you don't look stupid when the time comes that you really need to know so you can communicate with other people in your field. I just think it's important. It's ok if you don't know something but atleast take the time to learn the rules by someone who knows. This will help you in the long run.

I wasn't saying that you don't need to know the basics or fundamentals.

I'm just not so sure that school is the place to learn this stuff.

I made my biggest strides in my 5-7 years of doing this stuff.

Most schools don't run that long.

I believe that the best way to learn is by watching real records being made by the best in the business.

This isn't happening at most schools.

[Brandino221]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I wasn't saying that you don't need to know the basics or fundamentals.

I'm just not so sure that school is the place to learn this stuff.

I made my biggest strides in my 5-7 years of doing this stuff.

Most schools don't run that long.

I believe that the best way to learn is by watching real records being made by the best in the business.

This isn't happening at most schools.

I know what you mean. No offence to anyone but it's schools like fullsail that don't teach well. In Miami just say Fullsail and see people's faces. Most of those people end up working for Guitar Center or something like that. There are great school that can teach you great things. People that go to the schools that have no REAL accreditation is most likely not the best place to go. Real schools will teach you so much and also somethins about electricity. If you go to a school that is 1 year sure you will not learn the right way. It takes time. Also as far as learning from pros..if you go to a good school you have a much better chance getting into a real studio for a internship. But of course you have to do well in class.

[elder rookie]

i'm 29. i cant afford schooling and i figure the best way to learn and to be successful at this is by first hand knowledge and learning while working. plus so many people who i idolize in this field never went to school for this either. they just got a lucky break one day. thats what i'm waiting for. waiting for the day someone is willing to give me an opportunity to learn and show what i can do but that aint happening anytime soon from the looks of it. the last studio job i had was back in june and that was just another studio taking advantage of me by having me be their maid and not even letting me get close to any gear or even a project which kinda sucks but thats why i left that place. i find theres tons of places that will take advantage of you because you are an intern and since your already willing to work for free they wave the slightest hope of you one day getting a chance in front of you like a carrot. it's ****ed up but thats how it is atleast for me here in NYC.

[wilcofan]

I went to engineering college when I was 19 and that was 14 years ago now. It didn't teach me how to be successful in the studio as a producer, I think you need a mentor and/or hard experience to learn that. Production (producer) is most of a record IMHO.

It did put me ahead as an engineer. Whether it was the schooling or not (probably just confidence) I did find it easy to find recording situations after that. Even loans to buy gear were easier with schooling behind me. And I do still draw on things mentioned that I didn't fully grasp at the time.

Nobody needs to go to proper school but everybody needs to go to "school". A proper one is only bad if you think it's the end of learning. If you continue learning it is a wicked head-start.

[Brandino221]

I know what you guys mean. Another thing I have noticed is this. If you don't have experiance a studio will not want to pay you you and if you don't have a degree they won't pay you as well. So, you have to have a degree and experiance to get paid(if you are lucky). Another tip..studios don't let you behind the consoles because of a few reasons.
#1 would be trust. Would you let just anyone in your studio and they could mess something up?
#2 would be.. you could take someone's job! if you were the big shot there would you want some punk to come in a and show you up?? I would think not.
I know of a studio in Miami (very well known) and they have interns there that freaking live there. I knew of one guy that was there for 2 years with no pay.
Sure maybe one day he will get behind the board. Maybe they will let him do little things just to keep him around cuz they could use the extra BS help. Well, let me tell you if anyone thinks they are going into a studio and going to get their hands wet right away..I would say not a great chance. Not in a real studio. there is too much going on there and they can't take a chance of something going wrong.
The other thing is if you want to know people that might help you...well, become a friend. Not just someon that says hi and what can you do for me. No, be real. Everyone knows that everyone wants something. But if you can be real and just be cool maybe they will help you out cuz you are not like everyone else. Thats all I got to say. lol

[Jules]

who went to school to engineer?

All the interns I have hired.

But not me.

But then I started back in 82, there were few courses back then.

[elder rookie]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I know what you guys mean. Another thing I have noticed is this. If you don't have experiance a studio will not want to pay you you and if you don't have a degree they won't pay you as well. So, you have to have a degree and experiance to get paid(if you are lucky). Another tip..studios don't let you behind the consoles because of a few reasons.
#1 would be trust. Would you let just anyone in your studio and they could mess something up?
#2 would be.. you could take someone's job! if you were the big shot there would you want some punk to come in a and show you up?? I would think not.
I know of a studio in Miami (very well known) and they have interns there that freaking live there. I knew of one guy that was there for 2 years with no pay.
Sure maybe one day he will get behind the board. Maybe they will let him do little things just to keep him around cuz they could use the extra BS help. Well, let me tell you if anyone thinks they are going into a studio and going to get their hands wet right away..I would say not a great chance. Not in a real studio. there is too much going on there and they can't take a chance of something going wrong.
The other thing is if you want to know people that might help you...well, become a friend. Not just someon that says hi and what can you do for me. No, be real. Everyone knows that everyone wants something. But if you can be real and just be cool maybe they will help you out cuz you are not like everyone else. Thats all I got to say. lol

in my experience it's more of a case of #2. it's bad enough finding work that giving anyone else an opportunity is equated with shooting yourself in the foot.

and a lot of the places i've been here in NYC are generally run by complete scumbags who just want you to show up, keep their studio clean and feel like you are doing something when you are striking the mic. i've already interned and have been composing and creating sound design along with engineering and it doesnt matter. people want free janitors. so 8 out of every 10 people i've met so far have been complete scumbags. no one from the board here though (at least i dont think so) cus most of the people i've met could barely answer questions about their own gear. one guy told me he'd hire me if i got him a list of software (which i can get really easily..not tooting my own horn, just stating a fact) which he then began dictating to me what he needed. uhoh..dont wanna turn this into a 4am rant. goodnight.

[ringo.fire]

I frequently employ interns from scools
some of them know nothing, even after years of scool
some of them are pretty useful
the scools definitly fail in teaching important things like having the right behaviour during a recording session, like making decisons about style and "coolness" of a sound/ song. they cant teach you about vibes and mojo...
but you can learn to finish a project, you can learn basics about the technical side of recordings- what is a big time-saver.

I have to learn this from my interns

[mesh boogie]

i totally feel where a lot of you guys are coming from.

i think my biggest advantage is that i can get along with most anybody. i may not know everything about engineering, but i will happily work with all my clients to get them what they want as quickly as possible.

personality has taken me far, and i picked up that a lot of cats in this industry can be pains in the ass, and a lot of clients dont want to put up with that.

but then again, i wish i had a few more engineers around me to learn from in person cuz thats where the real knowledge comes in.

but thats what you slutz are for!

[mixer]

when i started there were very few schools..i learned from the go-fer school sweeping floors cleaning studios and doing teardowns and setups. when i owned a studio in florida for 20 years we had mostly interns from the university of miami working for us as assistants..they did basically the same things i did..today having an education is probably nessesary to get into the door.. there are so few jobs ...and so many people who want to be in the business.,,it's like being an actor in los angeles. so any advantage to can get do,,,that's my opinion..

[Stizz]

Biggest things I got from school (U Miami) was learning how to learn - a skill that has been much needed with all the changes in this industry the last 2 decades. Also definitely got my foot in the door for my first entry level position.

WHen I got out of school in the mid 80's and came to work at the studio, I did have knowledge in some of the newer technologies that the pros had not gotten much experience yet (there were these little things called MIDI and compact discs that were the new thing)

I also got a chance to record some great musicians, but the actual "recording studio" experience was pretty much up to me to learn by myself - so the few of us who were willing to stay up all night doing sessions (to the detriment of our studies), got the most out of that. As far as the electrical engineering part, I did learn a whole lot more than I need in my day to day life - but then again, I am not interested in designing gear...

[djui5]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I know what you mean. No offence to anyone but it's schools like fullsail that don't teach well.

Yeah they do. I went there and learned a lot. I'd never been in a professional studio before attending, and left there to intern at Transcontinential studios ( http://www.transconstudios.com )

It's one of the biggest studios in Florida. I felt very comfortable with the gear. I eventually moved up and chief Engineered my first session ever IN THE "A" ROOM. You learn a lot in sessions after graduation, but I can honestly say I wouldn't have done what I've done or be where I am without the school.


It's all what you make of it. If someone dosen't learn at FullSchmaile, it's their own fault. I have no pity on them.

[Doggy]

Teachers didn't teach a lot, but the rooms are always free for booking coz my classmates are not that interested in recording. they love theatre instead.(It is a performing arts school) I spent 2 years sleeping in the room with a SSL4000G, mixing my frds' songs. Now work in one of the part-time teacher's studio as an assistant. Without School, nobody gonna help me to this field coz i am a girl...



School can be good

[cdog]

Put the money you would spend on a school in the bank. You will need it later.

Just work. Just do it. You will learn or you will not learn on the job.

You will succeed or you will fail.

Don't be afraid of either.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

I know what you mean. No offence to anyone but it's schools like fullsail that don't teach well. In Miami just say Fullsail and see people's faces. Most of those people end up working for Guitar Center or something like that.

I couldn't disagree more. Talk about perpetuating a myth. I got a four year degree in business and then went on to Full Sail after deciding to pursue music fulltime. I had already been recording everything from orchestras and big bands to rock bands for 5 years and had taken studio clases at college - so I thought I had a decent handle on things. I learned so much at Full Sail it was incredible. Learning 3 different DAW's, and 4 different consoles with two different automation systems put me so far ahead of the pack. I ended with a job right after graduation at a big NYC studio. I was a runner for only two months - blew right by the other runners who had been there for a year of more. Obviously school can't teach you to use your ears - what it does teach you are the basics, what the knobs do, how to run the automation, DAW editing basics, etc. It's like art school, it doesn't teach you how to be an artist, it just shows you technique and gives you a starting point to create your own path.

And for what it's worth, I won't hire anyone who hasn't been to school. I did it once and it took so long to train the guy. I don't care how many bands they're recorded in their mom's garage when they're missing the basics of signal flow, basic studio maintenance, and session procedures it's just too much work.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by cdog

Put the money you would spend on a school in the bank. You will need it later.

Just work. Just do it. You will learn or you will not learn on the job.

You will succeed or you will fail.

Don't be afraid of either.

Great advice.