6176/1176 initial settings

[blindmln]

Hey Y'all

First off- thanks for your time!!

I have recently gotten a 6176, and wondering what y'all have found to be good generic starting points for things like Vox, bass, el gtrs. I know every situation is different, but I know in a LA2A the sweet spot for vocals is around 30/35 on the gain and about 50 on the PR.

Anyone have any recos for the 6176/1176? Should the bass have a slow attack/slow release or fast attack /slow release for the classic round articulated bass sound....?

What are some nice settings for a vocal?

Thanks again for everyone's time and input!!
Cheers!

[Serevende]

Originally Posted by blindmln

Hey Y'all

First off- thanks for your time!!

I have recently gotten a 6176, and wondering what y'all have found to be good generic starting points for things like Vox, bass, el gtrs. I know every situation is different, but I know in a LA2A the sweet spot for vocals is around 30/35 on the gain and about 50 on the PR.

Anyone have any recos for the 6176/1176? Should the bass have a slow attack/slow release or fast attack /slow release for the classic round articulated bass sound....?

What are some nice settings for a vocal?

Thanks again for everyone's time and input!!
Cheers!

I'm pretty sure the answer to this will be it all depends. I asked this a couple years ago and got flamed. I hope you get a better response. I'll be taking notes!

[Mr_David]

If I HAD to suggest an average setting I'd use it would be something on the lines of: (on an 1176)

Input 10 o'clock
Output 2 o'clock
Attack CCW
Release CW
Ratio 4:1

Then I'd tweak from there.

Having said that, OF COURSE, it completely depends.
Sometimes 8:1 on a vocal is the ticket.

Room mics NEED two ratios pushed in my opinion.
Obviously faster attack on a very "unwanted picky" bass
Slower release when needed etc....

[Mikeren]

Try the classic "Dr. Pepper" setting. Attack at 10 o'clock, Release at 2 o'clock. Ratio 4:1. Adjust threshold for a few dB reduction. Works well on many sources.
MR

[ultrasonic]

It kind of spooks me when someone recommends that certain knobs should point in certain directions, without consideration or knowledge of the signal!

Hopefully this will be useful for you. It's a method I sometimes use to start exploring the sound of a compressor.

1. Make sure to use good gain structure on the device feeding the compressor (mic pre, DAW output, tape machine, etc.). This is extremely important!
2. Compression Ratio: on most any compressor, start around 2:1 up to 4:1 if you want something kind of transparent. Higher if you intend to impart some color or artifact.
3. Start with mid range attack and release settings-- whatever those may be on your particular comp.
4. Set input (or threshold) so you're seeing about 3 to 5 db of gain reduction on the meter.
5. Set the gain make up around 3 to 5 db, to maintain good gain structure through the rest of your signal chain. Generally you want to make up as much gain as you are throwing away as GR in step 4.
6. Listen!
7. Adjust attack and release to see how they interact with the signal that you are processing. As you change these, also to go back to step 4 to keep the GR in line.

This should get you in a good position to begin learning the characteristics of the compressor you're using.

Other things to think about:
- Fast attack settings can dramatically alter your transients. For better or worse.
- Fast release can cause "distortion." This is sometimes very good. Sometimes terrible.
- High ratios will usually cause more audible artifacts than gentle ratios.
- Always take the gain reduction metering with a grain of salt. Different devices have very different meter ballistics. Use your ears first. Once it sounds good, get a good idea of what the meter looks like-- it will help you do fast set ups in the future.

Regarding the 1176 specifically:
- On lead vocal I usually end up with either 4:1 or 8:1, with moderately fast release times, and broad GR meter action. Pretty much my favorite vocal comp.
- I slow down the release time for bass (guitar) enough to avoid distortion, using moderate GR, spend time getting the attack setting just right.
- Use higher ratios (sometimes including multiple ratio buttons) along with fast release times to increase the density on room mic signals. Massive GR meter movement often results.
- 1176 is a FET GR device, and as such is capable of reacting very quickly. If you find yourself slowing it down quite a bit, you might do better choosing something inherently slower, like an opto device.

This post is getting too long! How about I stop writing and you start playing with your compressor?

[Erik Thomas]

Originally Posted by Mikeren

Try the classic "Dr. Pepper" setting. Attack at 10 o'clock, Release at 2 o'clock. Ratio 4:1. Adjust threshold for a few dB reduction. Works well on many sources.
MR

Why is that called "Dr. Pepper"? I saw that term in the 6176 manual too...

4:1 ratio is the best way to start and then go from there, 4 button mode is just insane in a good way....and can produce some interesting effects.

Gain staging through this unit, is hugely important...so refer to the the various meters for each function/stage accordingly to get a good view of what is happening from input to output.

[doorknocker]

Don't be shy. 'All-in' is often my fave setting on the 1176 side of the 6176. And often it is way less extreme sounding that it would appear to be.

The trick to me is really looking at the 6176 as one unit with gain-staging posssibilities as opposed to a single 610 and a single 1176. So basically you have 4 'gain stage' points from the 610 and 1176 combined (Gain-Level-Input-Output).

Like otehrs have said, slowest attack and fastest release is a great way to start on the 1176, especially with vocals. I tend to see the comp ratios as a kind of 'tone' knob, basically just flipping through them till it sounds best.

[Erik Thomas]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Don't be shy. 'All-in' is often my fave setting on the 1176 side of the 6176. And often it is way less extreme sounding that it would appear to be.

The trick to me is really looking at the 6176 as one unit with gain-staging posssibilities as opposed to a single 610 and a single 1176. So basically you have 4 'gain stage' points from the 610 and 1176 combined (Gain-Level-Input-Output).

Like otehrs have said, slowest attack and fastest release is a great way to start on the 1176, especially with vocals. I tend to see the comp ratios as a kind of 'tone' knob, basically just flipping through them till it sounds best.

+1 the 6176 is a very versatile and musical piece when approach it and use it as you recommend....

[ultrasonic]

Originally Posted by Erik Thomas

Why is that called "Dr. Pepper"? I saw that term in the 6176 manual too...

10, 2, 4.

From old Dr. Pepper marketing.

Frequently Asked Questions

[MMski]

If you check the Waves website, and watch the CLA video, it shows a lot of the settings he uses for the 1176, la-2 and la-3. Keep in mind, it's a plug-in, but the settings he uses can't be THAT far off. It offers some good starting points.

[Mikeren]

Originally Posted by ultrasonic

It kind of spooks me when someone recommends that certain knobs should point in certain directions, without consideration or knowledge of the signal!

Apparently, you don't recognize a "standard" when it's asked for...(note that its mentioned in the manual also).
Unlike the poster above my original reply, at least I didn't recommend a pre set input and output level. That would suck.

[Erik Thomas]

Originally Posted by ultrasonic

10, 2, 4.

From old Dr. Pepper marketing.

Frequently Asked Questions

What does 10-2-4 mean?
Those well-known Dr Pepper numbers of 10, 2 and 4 weren’t selected at random. They represent the times of day when the human body needs a little “pick-me-up” to avoid an energy slump.

It was in the 1920s that Dr. Walter Eddy at Columbia University studied the body’s metabolism. He discovered that a natural drop in energy occurs about 10:30 a.m., 2:30 p.m. and 4:30 p.m. But he also discovered that if the people in his research study had something to eat or drink at 10, 2 and 4, the energy slump could be avoided.

After Dr. Eddy’s research findings were released, Dr Pepper challenged its advertising agency to come up with a theme which would suggest that Dr Pepper should be that 10, 2 and 4 drink which would keep the energy level up. The result was one of the most enduring of Dr Pepper’s advertising themes: Drink a bite to eat at 10, 2 and 4.

Today, just those numbers 10-2-4 suggest it’s time for a Dr Pepper!"






Thanks ultrasonic. Love Dr. Pepper...but these days I use Rockst*r sugar-free energy drink to do that... though I missed my 10 oclock today and need to catch up.

[Mr_David]

Originally Posted by Mikeren

Unlike the poster above my original reply, at least I didn't recommend a pre set input and output level. That would suck.

It was hardly set in stone. I thought my tone indicated it was a 'gun to my head' type recommendation.

BUT if input is on max and output is on max when i insert it.. id turn it down to where I suggested for first listen.

[Mikeren]

Sorry, no offense...

Could you be confusing recommended attack and release settings (10 and 2 o'clock) with the input and output levels?

Regardless of the attack and release settings, the input and output levels are key to a compressor's operation and vary widely with signal strength.

The input determines the amount of compression applied. To low of an input setting may fall below the threshold and avoid compression. Too high and the signal is squashed. Given any ratio, attack and release settings, the amount of compression applied is tied directly to the input level setting...the 6176 has a GR setting on the VU to measure the amount of reduction.

Output should be used for make-up gain and/or for control of recording levels (within reason) as measured by Comp setting on the VU.

Attack and release ARE dictated by the program content or desired 'effect'. The 2 and 10 settings are simply recognized as a "do no harm" starting point for a variety of sources including voice, as the OP requested.

[ultrasonic]

Originally Posted by Mikeren

Apparently, you don't recognize a "standard" when it's asked for...(note that its mentioned in the manual also).
...

I'm not sure if you are being facetious or not. Do you really think that those settings are a "standard?" More like "a reasonable suggestion" of "a good place to start."

I feel as though I would be leaving out important information if the new guys and the hobbyists were to come away from a thread like this thinking that "knobs pointing this way" or "knobs pointing that way" are the keys to making something sound good.

In any event, you made a very good distinction in your post:

Adjust threshold for a few dB reduction.

I'm glad that you indicated that the amount of gain reduction is an important factor.

Further, Mr_David's description:

Input 10 o'clock
Output 2 o'clock

-- is pretty typical of the several 1176s I've owned and/or used over the last 25 years. With typical sources at nominal levels and good gain structure the input and output knobs will very often be close to these settings. This is pretty much where I set the knobs if I have to insert an 1176 "on the fly" prior to a line check, or during playback. Always follow up by listening and looking... of course.

YMMV.

[Mikeren]

For a question like the one posed and with no clue as to signal strength I will happily recommend an 'oft quoted (including the manual for the 6176) 'starting point' for attack and release on the sources mentioned with a 1176.

Not so when it comes to input and output settings based on someone else's levels.

My input and output are usually very close to 10 and 2 for around -3 reduction and a makeup, but that's based on my gain structure. I have no idea what the OP's practices are.

Yeah, there was a reason "standard" was in quotes.

Wasn't that what he was asking for in particular?

[Andrew AE]

a while ago i picked up a setting for tracking vocals that has always gotten me great results when using the 1176 as a limiter on the way in

attack 6
release 7
ratio 12:1

i also use the 1176 a lot on the 1:1 setting just to add warmth/bigness when tracking... works great for guitars

[dubrichie]

well, from my understanding, the 1176 has fairly fast attack and release times and a correspondingly small range of each.

to really get anything helpful out of them you have to be able to hear compression and small changes in its behavior.

i would say play around with it on some different sources and if you can't figure out what it's doing and how to dial in a good sound within a few minutes divert your attention to your monitors, your room or your ears.

i remember the first time i really got compression and heard it working, heard it properly and dialed in something really helpful. then i bought two MC-77s and have enjoyed every minute of it since.

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by Andrew AE

a while ago i picked up a setting for tracking vocals that has always gotten me great results when using the 1176 as a limiter on the way in

attack 6
release 7
ratio 12:1

i also use the 1176 a lot on the 1:1 setting just to add warmth/bigness when tracking... works great for guitars

that is really fast attack

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by superburtm

that is really fast attack

What, you guys never heard of the "Bones Howe" settings?

[superburtm]

just saying I dont want to be removing that much transient during tracking

[Ermz]

Isn't completely CCW just 1ms attack anyway? It feels like no matter how this unit is dialed it does something intense to transients (part of what we love about it?).

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Ermz

Isn't completely CCW just 1ms attack anyway? It feels like no matter how this unit is dialed it does something intense to transients (part of what we love about it?).

Again that's where gain staging comes into play. With lower input settings you will send less signal into compression yet still benefit from the 1176's sonic imprint. I know it's a rather unscientific approach but I pretty much see the input/output gain as the 'compression amount' and the ratio as a 'tone control' with each setting giving you a different sound.

On the 6176 this can be taken even further when bringing in the 'Gain' and 'Level' of the 610.

[Andrew AE]

Originally Posted by superburtm

that is really fast attack

yeah but like i said i'm using it as a limiter. i don't hit it that hard, just enough to sound good. try it...

[superburtm]

understood...ohh I have tried it.

Originally Posted by Andrew AE

yeah but like i said i'm using it as a limiter. i don't hit it that hard, just enough to sound good. try it...

[blindmln]

Thanks for everyone's input (whether its on 1 or 6 or 10 )!!!thumbsup

just gives me a little better understanding on how well it works- just havent used an 1176 prior and everyone talks about it as being the sh!t along with an LA-2A. Seems like you have 75% of things covered if you have those 2 compressors. I know there are other flavors out there and some may not prefer these for situations, but you work with what you got!!

thanks again!!!

Jon

PS:
set-up:
Bluebird Blue/414-TLII/ Fet47- mics I have for vocals and guitars
Bass i just plug in direct or thru a SansAmp BassDriver

[superburtm]

1176 and an LA 2a type comp will set you up nicely

Originally Posted by blindmln

Thanks for everyone's input (whether its on 1 or 6 or 10 )!!!thumbsup

just gives me a little better understanding on how well it works- just havent used an 1176 prior and everyone talks about it as being the sh!t along with an LA-2A. Seems like you have 75% of things covered if you have those 2 compressors. I know there are other flavors out there and some may not prefer these for situations, but you work with what you got!!

thanks again!!!

Jon

PS:
set-up:
Bluebird Blue/414-TLII/ Fet47- mics I have for vocals and guitars
Bass i just plug in direct or thru a SansAmp BassDriver