What are ye? Mixing engineer or recording engineer?

[Outlaw Hans]

I find that I'm alot better as a recording engineer than a mixer. Mic selection & placement, instrument/amp selection is my thing as well as getting a great performance out of musicians. However come mix time I get confused with all the delays and compressors, left-right balance and so on. Especially effects that you're not supposed to hear are driving me nuts. It ain't my thing, mixing. I'm trying to get better and hopefully even really good, but I'm just much more of a tracker. It's somehow more challenging because it's the essential part that you can't change later on. There's no way back. I just love getting good sounds from the get go. But having to balance them later on, adding reverb, riding faders... jeez what a bore...
Anyway, since I happen to like tracking more than mixing, wouldn't it be good to focuss on it. I have a mci 400 console which according to todays standards isn't really suited for mixing (no groups etc.) but it is a wonderful thing to record with. I never buy outboard gear except for compressors. It's all microphones I'm interested in. So yes, my studio is great for tracking but not a mix heaven.
Have any of you people decided on focussing more on one or the other? Why?
-C-
TB

Oulaw

[Black Dirt]

that's an interesting question, and one i was actually pondering tonight from a different angle...

most of the projects i get to work on are under such an insane time constraint that there is not much time for experimentation with mic placement or arrangement. mainly it is get a good sound up front and roll from there, with not much change throughout the recording process. of course, when it comes time to mix, all the inherent problems with working this way come to the fore, i spend alot of time trying to make a mix work, and in the end start to doubt my mixing methods and abilities... it's a catch 22.

i've felt best about mixes i've done when there was time taken and thought put into what the sounds were, how they related to one another, and how they were being captured during recording. that balance creates a feeling of harmony between the two disciplines for me. when it is the other way, i don't feel strongly about my skills either way. that's when mixing just seems corrective.

[jarrydn]

I'm terrible at both ;)

[asplashofcitrus]

Originally Posted by Outlaw Hans

I find that I'm alot better as a recording engineer than a mixer. Mic selection & placement, instrument/amp selection is my thing as well as getting a great performance out of musicians...I just love getting good sounds from the get go. But having to balance them later on, adding reverb, riding faders... jeez what a bore...
Oulaw

Kinda funny, assuming the players are good, and your expertise at tracking is your thing, would you even need to add reverbs, or ride faders?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by asplashofcitrus

Kinda funny, assuming the players are good, and your expertise at tracking is your thing, would you even need to add reverbs, or ride faders?

Don't you see our Hans is joking? He's so good, there isn't actually anything to mix when he's finished recording. Reverb, delays, panning ? Bah humbug, all up the middle, it's done!

As I hope are you, as it goes......sheesh

[narcoman]

i dont mix my own recordings. They go elsewhere.

When I do mix - someone else has recorded it. So it's a bit mutually exclusive for me. Do both - but rarely on the same project.

[lordward]

I mix a lot.... probably %80 of my work and around 14 full length albums a year. I used to record mainly, then I was doing both, and now I mainly mix and Master. I guess more because so many "instant producers - just add plugins" are around. I feel totally at home doing both and I need both. I WISH I would do about %50-50.... But then again I just want to do jobs that are fun!

I also do a lot of drum recording the past few years, mainly because the "instant producers" find it hard to record drums at home in their bedrooms.

DW

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

He's so good, there isn't actually anything to mix when he's finished recording.

Joking or not.......I have come to the very serious conclusion these days that with the kind of music I'm doing (guitars and vox) it is all about recording.

I do love the mixing thing, but one of these days I want to just pull up the faders and sit back and smile.

[masterblaster]

Put bluntly: mixing is more difficult, hence the demand for good mixers. Not sure if there is much of a career as a tracking engineer these days. Seriously... how many full-time professional tracking engineers are there? Not to say there in no art in tracking, but it's much easier to be a proficient recordist than mixer.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Joking or not.......I have come to the very serious conclusion these days that with the kind of music I'm doing (guitars and vox) it is all about recording.

I do love the mixing thing, but one of these days I want to just pull up the faders and sit back and smile.

Granted, if the faders come up naked and you are not already smiling at that point, there is definite wrongness!! Still needs someone to do however few or many things for the thing to go 'click' and be at one though me thinks.....

[Joram]

Hans, great that you bring this up!

Combining recording, mixing and producing is not always easy. Those three skills ask for a different state of mind. Switching between details and the big picture during mixing can be pretty difficult. Creating a new picture is nearly impossible when you are overly aware of all recording details and the decisions you made during recording.

Your "problem" might also have to do with the lack of a producer, who sets the course to follow and comes up with ideas.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by masterblaster

Seriously... how many full-time professional tracking engineers are there? .

well, probably MORE than there are mix engineers. Remember pop music is a TINY part of the recording world. There are generally more people recording for TV and film than are mixing for it. Same with orchestral.

For rock music - defo more tracking people than mixers... in fact I'd say there are more people making a living out of recording than mixing. RnB and Pop? dunno so much. A lot do it themselves at the low end - but on the big records? Still a lot of recordists out there.

And mixing - compared to recording properly - is easier. Mixing has it's tough areas - but generally only with poorly recorded stuff. Doing recording of the ilk of movie soundtracks or great sounding rock demands a lot of skill and experience. So does the mixing mind you.

[Jeff16years]

i could be wrong but...

i think you need a degree in engineering to be called an engineer.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by Jeff16years

i could be wrong but...

i think you need a degree in engineering to be called an engineer.

Jeff, are you really 16? If so you'll believe me when I say all you need to be an engineer is the HAT - and a chance to drive the train!

And in audio, on the job training is far more important than a degree these days. With a degree you can start a bonfire.

Only part of audio engineering that requires a degree is archving, and that needs a Library Science degree! Many people will tell you a degree in audio is worse than useless, actually gets you nothing in the real world... Does it?

L

[Jeff16years]

Originally Posted by loujudson

Jeff, are you really 16? If so you'll believe me when I say all you need to be an engineer is the HAT - and a chance to drive the train!

And in audio, on the job training is far more important than a degree these days. With a degree you can start a bonfire.

Only part of audio engineering that requires a degree is archving, and that needs a Library Science degree! Many people will tell you a degree in audio is worse than useless, actually gets you nothing in the real world... Does it?

L

i agree with everything you said, but are we really "engineers"?

I have been a full time audio "technician" in the TV industry for over 12 years and I did not go to any kind of school or have any professional training for it.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Jeff16years

i agree with everything you said, but are we really "engineers"?

I have been a full time audio "technician" in the TV industry for over 12 years and I did not go to any kind of school or have any professional training for it.

you are absolutely right on that technicality. Audio recordists are not engineers unless they have that qualification. However - it is a commonly accepted colloquialism. I'm an engineer fer real though .....

[Musiclab]

I like to think I'm good at both, I enjoy tracking and mixing . As far what some of what was said, I think of mixing and for that matter production as an aural film, either you're doing a documentary or you're telling a story and creating an illusion. Figuring out the right ambience sometimes is tough, but when you get it right it's one of the elements that can take the song from a recording to being a "record". I also think to be a good mixer you have to think like a producer.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Granted, if the faders come up naked and you are not already smiling at that point, there is definite wrongness!! Still needs someone to do however few or many things for the thing to go 'click' and be at one though me thinks.....

I absolutely agree.

That is the part I do so enjoy..........finding a place for everything, polishing the edges and bringing out the inherent goodness that may be hidden a bit.

That part just becomes so much more effortless with better tracking. There's a catch 22.......by becoming a better recording engineer I'll give myself less of an opportunity to do something that I really enjoy.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

I absolutely agree.

That is the part I do so enjoy..........finding a place for everything, polishing the edges and bringing out the inherent goodness that may be hidden a bit.

That part just becomes so much more effortless with better tracking. There's a catch 22.......by becoming a better recording engineer I'll give myself less of an opportunity to do something that I really enjoy.

....well, or you simply make sure that way that the mixing you enjoy is an experience of joyous decisions, not a tedious crowbaring and polishing of a mismatch. If it takes less time, great, quicker onto the next sweety in the goodiebag....

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by narcoman

you are absolutely right on that technicality. Audio recordists are not engineers unless they have that qualification. However - it is a commonly accepted colloquialism. I'm an engineer fer real though .....

I use the term engineer in a similar way to professional - engineer drives the train (as the sound guy live or the recording guy in studio, I am the one who handles the controls and keeps us on track) and professional in that this is my full-time gig and I do it in a professional manner.

Engineer is more like a train driver and less like a college graduate to me. Colloquial it may be but live depend on the engineer driving the train! The wiki definition says " The term is derived from the Latin root "ingenium," meaning "cleverness"."

Years of school may be required for a degree like EE, but we who have spent years in training can use the term too, without the capital letters.

Then there was the term domestic engineer for housewife, but that is a bit too far off.

L

PS to Jeff - I send equipment to a technician for repairs, but do not consider myself that. There is just too much art to doing sound for it to be merely technical to me. In studios I have worked in, the engineers made recordings and the technicians fixed the gear. Producers did nothing but handle people and concepts. Without the hands-on they are not engineers, to me.
L

[Outlaw Hans]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Don't you see our Hans is joking? He's so good, there isn't actually anything to mix when he's finished recording. Reverb, delays, panning ? Bah humbug, all up the middle, it's done!

As I hope are you, as it goes......sheesh

That´s just it. What´s there to mix, man!

[larry b]

I think my strong suit is definitely tracking, as i just have this knack for mic choice and placement and other elements of "getting the sound". I'm also a good "coach" so to speak, and i think i have a good personality to coax that special performance out of a musician. I'm also a big believer in tracking things in a way that when you push up the faders to do the mix, a lot of the work has already been taken care of in terms of the tone of the recorded tracks, and with certain things (vocals, bass) even the dynamics.

For me, mixing is an ongoing learning experience. I get better all the time. I go back to old sessions that i did years ago and think to myself "what the hell was i thinking?" in terms of the routing, plug-in setup, gain staging, reverb choices and level, overall mix levels, etc.

I also love watching other people mix to see how they approach various things such as EQ and compression, routing and levels/headroom. It's always an eye-opener when you see someone put together a bangin' mix using techniques that you've never even thought of before. Theres just so many ways to "skin the cat" so to speak.

At my studio, we generally do about 50/50 i would say, which i am very happy with. I love both sides of the coin.

[You_Father_Sky]

I feel I'm quite adept and creative at both, I am however trying to focus more on mixing and production than tracking, mainly because my facility is small and I cannot really do more than overdubs.

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by Jeff16years

i could be wrong but...

i think you need a degree in engineering to be called an engineer.

I agree, and by the way, they call train engineer because they were riding the engine,
so you guys ride the fader, your are not engineer.

[TimeBandit]

Originally Posted by bigbone

I agree, and by the way, they call train engineer because they were riding the engine,
so you guys ride the fader, your are not engineer.

Then why dont you go tell all the mojority of the "ENGINEERS" in the recording business that they are not really ENGINEERS since they didnt go to school and get an engineering degree.

So what would you call "US"?

[TimeBandit]

Originally Posted by bigbone

I agree, and by the way, they call train engineer because they were riding the engine,
so you guys ride the fader, your are not engineer.

I also know plenty of people who own businesses and didnt go to school and get a business degree.Does that mean that they are not really a business owner.I think you are getting into semantics.

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by TimeBandit

Then why dont you go tell all the mojority of the "ENGINEERS" in the recording business that they are not really ENGINEERS since they didnt go to school and get an engineering degree.

So what would you call "US"?

Call yourself soundguys.......... i hope you are not to confused

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by TimeBandit

I also know plenty of people who own businesses and didnt go to school and get a business degree.Does that mean that they are not really a business owner.I think you are getting into semantics.

Not the same, they don't call themeself ''business degree'' in there field.

[Llitsor]

Huh? I thought everyone was a "Producer" these days...

[larry b]

Originally Posted by Llitsor

Huh? I thought everyone was a "Producer" these days...

No, everyone is a "produsah" these days...yo.

They make beets.