Sufan Stevens

[chriscoleman]

Does anyone know anything about the recording and mixing process for Sufjan Stevens' album "Come On Feel The Illinoise"?

I can't stop listening to it....

I've searched around a bit and I've found album credits - but other than mastering, Sufjan is the only engineer listed...but in an interview in The Onion, he talked about using a studio for this album.

Any info anyone?

[khai]

According to what he said to David Garland in 'Spinning on air', Illinoise was recorded on the same old portable digital 8 track he used for Michigan, hence a certain similarity in the sound. All recorded tracks were then transferred onto pro tools for later editing, EQing etc... But he used this cheap device in a studio that had better mics than the SM57 he recorded Michigan with, hence the slight improvement in sound.

I've listened to Stevens so much lately that after a while all other records sound too warm and thick to my ears...

[jba]

I know that Sufjan did some work on Illinoise at The Buddy Project in NYC. I'm not sure what parts were recorded or mixed there, but I emailed the engineer, Kieran, about Sufjan's vocals sounds and he said he mainly used a 4033 through an Altec 1592a pre, and also a MXL V69, SM57, and C1000 (!). I hope Kieran doesn't mind me sharing this info, but he didn't seem to mind sharing it with me. It mainly sounds so good because of Sufjan's talent, anyways.

I agree with Khai--after listening to Illinoise some of my work sounds really muddy and thick. But, the thin, airy sound doesn't work for everything. I am considering getting a 4033 after hearing how good it sounds on Sufjan's voice through a warm tube pre, though.

-Jim Bob

[guitarmonkey]

chris,
did you see him @ the bluebird when he was here at the end of july?

freaking best show of the summer. amazing.

everyone should make the effort to see him. unbelieveably good show.

great stuff.

g-monkey (in downtown denver)

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by jba

he mainly used a 4033 through an Altec 1592a pre

So (other than Sufjan's natural voice), I'd bet that's where the mid-range push comes from. I'd be surprised if they EQ'd it much.

To me, Illinoise is just an awesome sonic spectacle - great sense of space and outstanding depthof field - and that's without even mentioning the sheer musical talent Sufjan and co. possess.

Another prime example of "it ain't the gear"

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by guitarmonkey

chris,
did you see him @ the bluebird when he was here at the end of july?

No, my friend just recently turned me on to Stevens' work...but a few other friends went to the show and said the same thing about it. I'll guess I'll just have to wait until he hits Colorado again.

[guitarmonkey]

they pull that sonic landscape off live.

gifted, gifted, gifted...
g

[khai]

One question related to Illinoise:

on many tracks like 'Chicago' for instance, there's a REALLY high number of instruments juxtaposed simultaneously (through re-recording, most of the time I think), and it's really stuffy sometimes, but still each of the instruments has enough space in the mix.

Doesn't compression during tracking makes it more difficult to add a lot of instrument parts in a mix? Isn't it better to keep individual sounds thin from the start by avoiding compression or use it only for solving issues?

[kieran kelly]

Hello All. Sufjan did record a great deal of " Illinoise" at my Studio The Buddy Project . I can't take any of the credit for the sound ( well other than I do believe my room sounds good ). I would be glad to answer any questions about the album that I might know.


Sufjan engineered all of the record with help from James McAllister engineering the drums. ( Drummer / Ester Drang , Sufjan , )

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by kieran kelly

I can't take any of the credit for the sound ( well other than I do beleive my room sounds good ).

One of things I love about the sound of "Illinoise" is the room...if I were on the east coast, I'd use your place in a heartbeat.

Sufjan engineered all of the record with help from James McAllister on engineering the drums. ( Drummer / Ester Drang , Sufjan , )

Dammit. For me, this small fact makes me want to both: 1) hang it all up and 2) go record something RIGHT NOW. The fact that he writes the beautiful lyrics that he does would be amazing in and of itself - even the musicianship alone is incredible - but NOOOO, he's got to do that stuff AND make it sound great, too, almost completely on his own.

Kieran, couple quetsions on Sufjan's engineering:
1) What was the recording device? The 8-track Roland box that I've read he uses, Pro Tools, both? Any tape at any point?
2) Did SS mix the album as well? Where?

Thanks for chiming in on this thread!

-CC

[khai]

Originally Posted by kieran kelly

I would be glad to answer any questions about the album that I might know.

thumbsup Thanks a lot for sharing, Kieran, and my congratulations for your work on this album, it's a beautiful recording, really. Yes, I have a few questions...

Your tracking room sounds good. How big is it?

In general what compression did you use on things while tracking?

Was Sufjan coming with most of the arrangements ready to record, or did he experiment much in your studio? For the richest arrangements (like 'Come on feel the illinoise'), what instrument did he start with? Drums?

Was he really recording into his cheap digital 8 track and then bounced things onto protools, or straight into protools?

[khai]

My god, I didn't notice he engineered it himself!

[kieran kelly]

Once again I just wanted to say I did NOT engineer any of the record. that credit belongs to Sufjan

Your tracking room sounds good. How big is it?


The Buddy Project live room is a modest size at 13.5 ft x 14 ft with the walls splayed 8in on each side
the celing is 14ft on one side 12.5ft on the other side

In general what compression did you use on things while tracking?



I dont think Sufjan used any compression in tracking .

Was Sufjan coming with most of the arrangements ready to record, or did he experiment much in your studio? For the richest arrangements (like 'Come on feel the illinoise'), what instrument did he start with? Drums?


the arrangerments I am not so sure about. the Drums were cut along with Sufjan playing different instruments to my knowledge.



Was he really recording into his cheap digital 8 track and then bounced things onto protools, or straight into protools?

He recorded straight into the 8track and would bounce into Pro tools then bounce back to the 8 track for overdubs




Sufjan mixed the album in pro tools using headphones . I do believe Allan Douches deserves a great deal of credit for mastering http://www.westwestsidemusic.com/
He is an amazingly helpful person at preparing your masters also

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by kieran kelly

Sufjan mixed the album in pro tools using headphones .

Alright, that's it. I've had enough - the more I find out about the production of this album, the more it blows my mind.

I'm selling off all of my gear and not posting here for a while.

Um, well, maybe.

But, it IS all about the music and this one quote above completely nullifies any "ITB vs. SSL vs. Neve vs. RADAR vs. your grandma" thread that's ever come across any audio forum on the net.

It goes hand-in-hand with the MB thread "Gear vs. the engineer using the gear".

I do believe Allan Douches deserves a great deal of credit for mastering http://www.westwestsidemusic.com/

I do believe I'll be sending my next project to Mr. Douches.

He is an amazingly helpful person at preparing your masters also

How so? Did Sufjan send Douches rough mixes to get his help/direction before sending off the final mixes?

-=cc=-

[kieran kelly]

How so? Did Sufjan send Douches rough mixes to get his help/direction before sending off the final mixes?

Allan and Sufjan compared mixes in 3 different formats. 1 ITB , 2. mixed real time digitally to 24bit dat. and tried different dithering options . This I do know . the ITB mixes were used on most if not all of the songs.. and this was off Sufjan's 001.

[khai]

Thanks Kieran for all this information.

[mikegrigoni]

Hi Kieran.

How did Sufjan approach miking instruments? Was he miking certain instruments in stereo, mono?

Thanks.

Mike

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by mikegrigoni

How did Sufjan approach miking instruments? Was he miking certain instruments in stereo, mono?

I don't have an answer, but an additional observation. As mentioned, I love the sense of depth on this record - and at times, it's really wiiiiide too - I noticed that on one tune (I forget which), the banjo is totally out of phase and completely disappears when the song is summed to mono.

The kicker is that the banjo is a pretty vital part of the tune, not a throw-away add-on. Interesting mix decision, to have a critical component of the arrangment at risk of evaporating in mono. But, those are the kind of decisions that make this album stand out.

-=cc=-

[gsharp]

What was the EXACT make and model of the little 8 track? I want to corner the market on them on eBay before the word gets out.

Damien Rice 'O' was also mostly tracked by Damien himself to one of those Fostex/Tascam Foscam? boxes.

Supposedly mediocre gear sure starts to sound good when there's a heartfelt performance of a great song in front of it.

g

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by gsharp

What was the EXACT make and model of the little 8 track? I want to corner the market on them on eBay before the word gets out.

I think I read it was a Roland VS-880, but the bigger picture is the fact that a box like this was used at all in a recording that sounds this good.

Supposedly mediocre gear sure starts to sound good when there's a heartfelt performance of a great song in front of it.

That's the absolute bottom line. It reinforces the idea that if you can't get it done with the gear you've got, it ain't the gear...unfortunately, gear is fun to get.

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by chriscoleman

I think I read it was a Roland VS-880

Excellent. I love hearing about great records done on stuff all us GS'ers dfegad on in our daily conversations.

[mikegrigoni]

So, my question now is, what if Sufjan had recorded directly into Pro Tools? That was an option, as the Buddy Project has a Pro Tools system, so it sounds like he wasn't stuck with using the Roland. It must be that he prefers the tone he gets out the Roland...? How different would the record have sounded overall if he had simply recorded into Pro Tools? What advantages, tone wise, does a Roland 880 have over Pro Tools?

[gsharp]

I can see it now:

Roland VS8XX as a front end to PT. Gives you the indie singer-songwriter thing. Poor man's version of the RADAR=>PT thing.

[kieran kelly]

my guess on the banjo is that is is a out of phase delay that is hard panned . As far as mono vrs stereo recording . I think most things are mono. some have 2 different mics ... not Stereo per say.

[kieran kelly]

Originally Posted by mikegrigoni

So, my question now is, what if Sufjan had recorded directly into Pro Tools? That was an option, as the Buddy Project has a Pro Tools system, so it sounds like he wasn't stuck with using the Roland. It must be that he prefers the tone he gets out the Roland...? How different would the record have sounded overall if he had simply recorded into Pro Tools? What advantages, tone wise, does a Roland 880 have over Pro Tools?

The choice was probably more for work flow than tone...... Sufjan knows his "tool" well.
I dont think he wanted to be troubled with the patchbay routing and using aditional equiptment that would get in the way of focusing on the arrangements. I think this is a lession all of us who record and write could learn from.

[gsharp]

Originally Posted by kieran kelly

aditional equiptment that would get in the way of focusing on the arrangements.

I'm gonna get this tatooed backwards on my forehead so I see it when I look at my computer screen and into the tracking room window.

[infiniteposse]

This thread has been a profound source of both pain and inspiration I really love this LP though and have really enjoyed hearing more about it. Once again, God sends me a small sign that I should get off the internet and pick up my guitar and write some songs.

[kieran kelly]

Originally Posted by gsharp

I'm gonna get this tatooed backwards on my forehead so I see it when I look at my computer screen and into the tracking room window.

ME TOO

[jdjustice]

Sufjan is going on tour of the US and tickets are now on sale I think (as of today)... he mentioned in an interview that he would have a small string section touring with him..

[xist]

good questions :-)