China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts

[Michael_Joly]

Hey Folks, here are few pics from my recent trip to Pro Light + Sound Expo Shanghai and several mic companies in Shanghai and Ningbo areas.

Top Left - New end address broadcast dynamic mic from ShuaiYin, Top Left Center - a view of the iSK / ShengKe booth, Top Right Center - New ORTF SDC mic from Superlux, Top Right - display case and posters at ShuaiYin booth (the careful observer will spot some well-known models), Middle - Young woman preparing brass blanks for backplates, Bottom Left - factory manager and I discussing MJE-Michael Joly Edition microphones, Bottom Right - SDC backplates for the world's most popular SDC mic type.

I saw everything from raw brass rod and tube awaiting maching, to backplate drilling / lapping / polishing to clean room capsule assembly and QC to final anechoic chamber mic testing. You want low-cost, re-brandable, catalog mics? These companies have them. You want high qualitity, innovative mics? These companies can build them.

[big country]

that dynamic looks cool
its also good to see the people who make
these mics.

thank you .

[TurboJets]

I'll be interested to find out the price point for the superlux ortf sdc.

[drBill]

Who's the guy in the orange prison jumpsuit??

[tapehiss]

Originally Posted by drBill

Who's the guy in the orange prison jumpsuit??

hhmmmmm. must be an escaped convict, either that or some dude on the loose from the loonie bin.

[Phroggy]

Thanks for sharing the photos.

[Michael_Joly]

A few more...left top to right bottom: AKG Perception body, raw brass for capsule backplates, capsule assembly clean room, automobile GPS screen, McDonalds menu, Skinny Rocker and woman de-burring set screw holes.

[J.S.Vega III]

^ You were with Rustic?! Cool guys I was a judge at the Beijing Global Battle of the bands who put them through to the China finals (and subsequently world finals!!).

Oh yeah, I recorded them too ;-)

[Michael_Joly]

Yeah, they were one of the outdoor stage acts.

[Tomer1]

That broadbase mic body is a bit like the EV RE20 ,
The grill design is slightly different and only 6 slots instead of 8

[hankdrummer]

the real question is : what the hell were you doing here ?

[Les]

Thanks for posting, Michael.

It makes me think of back when Shure manufactured all mics in the U.S.
Almost all factory workers were women.

Looks similar. Our press operators weren't as cute.

I've never been to Shanghai. It must be a very modern cosmopolitan city.
Did you have to eat any of those fried bugs on sticks?

[tapehiss]

i imagine he was making sure his products were going to be produced at a high quality.......... which is not always common practice for a company...

some just tell the factory to make 'so and so' according to these specs, then pays them and waits for the shipment....

there are a few great mic dealers/producers that check out the factory production quality before going into business with them, such as advanced audio,,,,and it appears oktavamod is doing this as well....

however, these are just my assumptions because i have no idea what michael does in his personal life (besides recycling what might be cheap quality, into a pro piece of gear), but it appears from the pics that he is going over some sort of spec/document....
and this makes a concerned consumer like myself much more interested in a product..............

also, i thought that mic looked like a RE-20 body with the head of a heil pr40,

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by J.S.Vega III

^ You were with Rustic?! Cool guys I was a judge at the Beijing Global Battle of the bands who put them through to the China finals (and subsequently world finals!!).

Oh yeah, I recorded them too ;-)

Hey Martin - I forgot to say thanks for stopping into this thread! Because I'm sure you've got a lot of stories to tell. I'll be in Beijing next May for PALM so we should get together. I have a client in Beijing who is a Gearslut as well who will be at the Show as well.

Originally Posted by Tomer1

That broadbase mic body is a bit like the EV RE20 ,The grill design is slightly different and only 6 slots instead of 8

Its really a beauty. But I was a little disapointed that while it uses a large diaphragm dynamic element it is a solid state design - transformerless. But it was a stand-out at the show and I'm sure we'll see some major re-brander pick it up.

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

the real question is : what the hell were you doing here ?

I attented the Pro Light + Sound Shanghai Expo, its like a NAMM and AES show combined. Then I toured three different microphone manufacturing companies and had detailed technical meetings with the folks producing my MJE - Michael Joly Editions line of mics.

Originally Posted by Les

Thanks for posting, Michael.

It makes me think of back when Shure manufactured all mics in the U.S.
Almost all factory workers were women.

Looks similar. Our press operators weren't as cute.

I've never been to Shanghai. It must be a very modern cosmopolitan city.
Did you have to eat any of those fried bugs on sticks?

Oh yeah, that press operator was really sweet. This particular company is a family-owned so there are lots of brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts involved. I can only speak about the three companies I saw, but the working conditions, compensation and general respect of the workers made me feel good about working with factory owners. That was an important part of trip - to inspect working conditions. My grandparents were French-Canadien textile mill workers so I'm aware of the joys and challenges that factory work entails. In fact I've done my own stints of factory work and understand well the "no-mind" bliss of repetitive work that can be cultivated. Factory production work can be an honorable path for family progress if workers are respected and given opportunites for advancement.

Shanhai is a city of the future. When I was last in China (Beijing and Guangzhou) twenty years ago I saw parts of cities where people lived as if it was 1899. Now China has 7000 miles of MagLev rail connecting airports to urban centers and between centers. The US has no real high speed rail.

Food was great. Had an amazing lunch at the Chairman Mao-theme restaraunt "Hi I'm comrade Zhen and I'll be your server today!" This particular restaurant had a huge slab of ice with all kinds of fresh seafood on it. The organizer of the meal would walk around with one of the female comrades (those are costumes, there are no Mao-style comrades in China now) and put together the meal. Probably twenty diffrerent baskets in bubbling salt water tanks plus an aquarium wall of fresh water seafood.

Originally Posted by tapehiss

i imagine he was making sure his products were going to be produced at a high quality.......... which is not always common practice for a company...some just tell the factory to make 'so and so' according to these specs, then pays them and waits for the shipment....there are a few great mic dealers/producers that check out the factory production quality before going into business with them, such as advanced audio,,,,and it appears oktavamod is doing this as well....

however, these are just my assumptions because i have no idea what michael does in his personal life (besides recycling what might be cheap quality, into a pro piece of gear), but it appears from the pics that he is going over some sort of spec/document....
and this makes a concerned consumer like myself much more interested in a product..............

also, i thought that mic looked like a RE-20 body with the head of a heil pr40,

Oh, yeah. My new line of mics is not going to be ordered from a catalog and re-branded. I've found a particular company that is hungry to do highest quality work and differentiate themselves from other manufacturers.

[mingustoo]

Michael,
Your trip and meeting with the factory bosses was of course very important. Not just as a means for checking out their capability, but as a means of developing a personal relationship with the owners.
I work for a trading company in Taiwan and can tell you that impressing upon them your dedication to quality and commitment to following your design tolerances is of the utmost importance. In China it doesn't matter what is being made, work WILL be farmed out and if you or the subcontractors ( but mostly you) are not on top of it, cheating, fudging, substituting of cheaper parts WILL take place.
Moreover, personally inspecting the facilities brings prestige to the factory as it shows to them how important they are in your business plan.
Just remember, with most businesses in China, only after the contract is signed does the real negotiating begin.

[musicbydesign]

Thanks for the good info, Michael. I find these mic threads
interesting for sure. It's funny though how those young guys
over there are still into eighties metal.

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

. My grandparents were French-Canadien textile mill workers so I'm aware of the joys and challenges that factory work entails. .

So i guess your Grandparent name were Jolie, and as you move to the USA it became Joly. parle tu un peut francais........

[Michael_Joly]

Thanks for the heads up. I appreciate all the personal anecdotes and caveats people have sent me privately.

Yes, I've been moving very slowing - building long term relationships first where both parties have some skin in the action and are mutually commited to long term success. The Chinese as you know are incredibly gracious hosts, but because of my past experience in China, and love of the people, food and country, (not to mention 30+ years of experience with chopsticks) I felt a great deal of genuine good will was extended toward me.

Below is another shot of a clean room capsule assembly area, a capsule / headbasket test jig with quick-connect capsule mounting for rapid testing in a large anechoic chamber, some of my factory respresentatives friends and a big gathering of factory people, domestic representatives / dealers and customers.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by bigbone

So i guess your Grandparent name were Jolie, and as you move to the USA it became Joly. parle tu un peut francais........

No, this family has spelled it Joly for many generations - even back to France. In fact, there is a small street in your city called "Rue Joly". On my material grandmother's side I'm Landry - one of the founding families of Acadie. Unfortunately, I belong to the first generation of my people here in the New World not to speak French - another project along with some passable Mandarin as well!

[drBill]

Michael - thanks for the peek into your world. It's exciting to see a startup take place that places a high emphasis on quality over lowest possible price. Look forward to trying out all the new goodies.....

[cheu78]

Does anyone know if some other companies (other than Shoeps) does a model like the ortf mstc6 (like the ortf stereo pair) shown in the first batch of pics?

When I saw the shoeps by a friend of mine I was amazed by the quality and the utility of a great tool as this mic... then he told me the price hahahahahah

I wonder if some other companies does a similar mic, with a good quality not darn cheap, but more affordable than the shoeps..
Maybe will be your next mic, Michael?

Best regards,




Cheu

[Corran]

Great pics - the ORTF stereo mic is interesting, I think (if it's quality) that it might be a hit in the Remote Forum for the lower-end recordists who can't afford the Schoeps.

Also interested in the RE20-like mic.

[Matti]

I like this thread.

Matti

[Fastermouse]

Originally Posted by MATTI

I like this thread.

Matti

I have to agree. Things like this are so cool. It makes me feel like a part of a community and more than anything provokes me to spend money with some of these awesome people!

[Tomer1]

There is the chinese company MICW who design very high quality SDC mics with Titanum capsules and also manufacture them.
They are not cheap for chinese mics (models range between 300-1000$ a mic) but they seem very high quality and well designed.

MicW Professional Microphones


Michael,
Will your entire mics be manufactured completly in china (Body,Electronics,capsule,case,shockmount) or will you be using a capsule of a different source?

[jkung]

Mike,

Great pics. I wish i was there. My boy dindae sheena who reps mackie was there I think. I couldn't make it cuz of gigs here in beijing. I would echo the quality control comments. I think you need to have someone here to test the mics sound wise and construction wise. However, there are ALOT of mic manufacturers here. My studio is actually down the road from 797. Funny they only sell junk at their poor excuse of a showroom (at least what i saw).

[jkung]

OH and Tianjin Makes some of the best bang-for-buck drum kits around. I will look up the name but i gotta say last year at PALM, i played a kit that was pretty tight and it was like a thousand bucks US for a whole set INCLUDING cymbals.

[Tomer1]

I think you need to have someone here to test the mics sound wise and construction wise

Can you accually refuse to pay for less then satisfactory mics?
In europe a factory would not dare to put out a produce which doesnt meat the specs hense you rarly incounter a quality control problem.
But how does that work in china?

I know that Charter Oak mics check their mics in the US and tossing out what doesnt meet their demand which is essentially throwing away money but it might be more cost effective then to have a rep present at the factory.
Are the Reps for companies like mackie and maudio usually local guys who or foreigners?

[jkung]

in my experience the QC issue is across the board. The reason i think its better to have one on the ground here is because i have too many friends (in all industries) that will have an entire shipment of goods already sent overseas that are unacceptable. That is my reasoning behind someone on the ground here who can stop any problems immediately.

Chinese factories usually will not give your money back for any reason whatsoever. If they did it wrong, you usually get a shoulder shrug. If you anyone has personal experience with someone who will give full refunds, PLEASE INTRODUCE ME. This isnt a knock on china (i am chinese), more so a piece of knowledge you NEED to know before coming to do business here.

As to who you choose as your QC, that is completely up to you. Of course it will be someone you trust rather than someone you just meet and train. This also entails the economics of one's company obviously.

PS that is why this whole dry-wall thing in the states is kinda pissing me off. People blame china for shoddy products when its the DRYWALL Company that had the responsibility of QC. There are tons of crappy not to spec goods being made in china but the good companies spend the money on good QC. LV, Gucci, and YSL all have factories in Shanghai but you never hear about deathly rash inducing fabrics... why? cuz they have a good QC!!!!

[. . .]

Originally Posted by jkung

China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts

I even wouldn't send a e-mail to China.