8/12 bit samplers?

[flextone]

Hi,
I got a chance to mess around with a Linn9000 (12bit?) drum machine / sampler and it blew me away. It has variable sample rate for the sampling and you can never guess what the sample will playback like, just destroying the input material in the most beautiful way. Now, I don't have the 1K+ to put on a vintage sampler but I was wondering if this kind of fun can be had with anything cheaper? A local dealer has the 12bit Yamaha TX 16W, and 16bit EMAX II, Kurzweil K2000R, Roland S750/760.

Please note that I am mainly interested in sampling by-products. The "warmth" or "crunchiness" of the sound, though a lot of times onnected like on the Linn9000, is less important.

Thank you.

[hankdrummer]

personally i have a black MPC 1000, and its output is connected to a MoogerFooger filter. the drive on this pedal sounds amazing.

there are billions of ways to add "vibes" to a "cold" sound, without having to pay thousands for an old machine with hard to find parts.

if you want old converters, buy an Ensoniq DP2 or DP4. it's old, it's digital, but it has a really good vibe (think Daft Punk's Homework)

[flextone]

Thank you hankdrummer, but you are missing the point entirely

[JoaT]

If Hank's missing the point, I might be well off too.

There's a lot of less expensive alternatives on 12 bit sampler lot.

Try Ensoniq Mirage, Roland W-30 / S 330, Akai S900... All good "gritboxes", all cheaper than Linn.

You can also try some "Bitcrusher" type VST plugs, if you work on a computer. Much less pain to use.

[flextone]

Is there anything out there with variable recording sample rate? What I want is not to add "vibe" or "crunch", but something more violent. A bitcrusher is usefull, but it's just not the same. When my MPC3000's RAM went bad, it sounded like a bitcrusher, only so much better, and that's what I'm after.

[Lumin One]

i believe the eps16 has variable bit modes. i know you can resample to a lower bitrate.
i have an mpc60 which is 12 bit. the 3.10 OS will let you degrade the sample to a super lofi bitrate to save space. it really kills some things in a beautiful way

[SWAN808]

try the akai s950 or s900 - dirt cheap and variable sample rates...

[DJBlueDrink]

EMAX I not II is 12 bit sampling and then stores samples at 8 bit. Sampling drums at 45 rpm at 20khz sampling rate and pitching them down to get the speed and pitch back to normal = hip hop drum nirvana. Just make sure you have an external sequencer, (MPC, PC software, etc.) cuz the built in sequencer in it sucks. The sound of it is definately more gritty and hard hitting than the s900/950, they are just easier to work with.

Awesome low pass filters too.

[SeniorityFedup]

battery 3 has this ability. if your into software

[claesbjo]

+1 on emax 1 here, amazing for that kind of stuff, and dirt cheap these days... my crystal ball tells me it won´t stay that way though, so get one, you will not regret it.

Mirage is awesome aswell, the only thing is that it is a little bit more tricky to work with, but not too much if you just want to sample and then record it it into tha daw. It is way dirtier, but in a beautiful way, but it might be too much for your liking.

[flextone]

I'd love an Emax I, or better yet an Emulator rack. But they are both very hard to find.
I have had my eyes on an Akai S950 for a long time, would you say the Emax has a better sound? I know the filter was analog so there's no question about that part.

What about the 16bit Emax II? No variable sample rate?

[DJBlueDrink]

Depends on what you mean by better sound. The s950 is higher fidelity, but Emax sounds more like the sound you seem to be going for. The s950 is definitely easier to use and also has timestretch(very useful). The Emax def has a better LPF.

[DJBlueDrink]

Originally Posted by flextone

What about the 16bit Emax II? No variable sample rate?

Never used one, but from what I've heard, it does not have that fat punchy and gritty sound you seek. Lil more HiFi

[Nishmaster]

If you want to go the plugin route, Digidesign's D-Fi package includes the LoFi plugin, which has variable sample rate and bit depth for that ugly/beautiful sound you're talking about.

In guitar pedal form, the WMD Geiger Counter also does the same types of things. You could strap either of those to any sampler to get the effects you are talking about.

[DJBlueDrink]

I have to disagree with the suggestions of software for this purpose. I spent about a year chasing that sound with software and came kinda close. The day I got my MPC60 it was like EUREKA!!! The day I got my Emax was even better because that was the end result I was looking for. LoFi and bit reduction plugins are cool for somethings, but the sound you are hearing is more than something being simply 12 or 8 bit. It's the sound of a particular converter and the analog circuitry surrounding it. Some software seems to take this into consideration, but it really just always sounds like its missing something that you get IMMEDIATELY with these units.

[LdC]

112dB Morgana plug-in is worth a try - it's an emulation of old school samplers.

[flextone]

Thanks for all the input. Those Di-Fi plugins look really nice btw. Anything similar in AU form?

Let me ask you this. Is there a way to hack two of my mpc3000's outputs to degrade the sound? I recall it breaking down on me, it was the most beautiful crushed sound I ever heard.

[Steffmo]

That EPS function Flexitone mentioned is great, we used to use it all the time. As I recall you could audition the sample at various downsampled rates until you got what you wanted. The side benefit being you would use less memory when the sample was converted down. Memory was pretty expensive back them.

I'm pretty sure the ASR series kept the same feature. I don't know about anyone else, but I really liked the ARR-X, which was Ensoniq's attempt at an Akai type drum machine/sequence/sampler.

The EPS16 was also a great rack piece.

I loved my S1000 for sampling vocals and real instruments, but it never had the same magic for me on drums.

Where's my Oberheim DMX when I need it....lol.

Wow....vintage digital....

[monkeymarc]

hmm
my favs are emu sp12 turbo, sp 1200, casio fz1, casio rz1, akai mpc 60.....
emulator II
what I love about em...
u can pretty much just record the output to vinyl and release it...
I told a mate once that my mpc 60 looked like a cash machine and he said that it was: all you have to do is hook the the outputs up to a vinyl lathe and bobs your uncle... $$$ will come out the other end...
nice....
for cheepness tho.... the casio
Vintage Synth Explorer - Casio FZ-1
but now i think about it it may be 16 bit... but it sure sounds like 12 to me... I think its because you can change the rates from 9kHz to 36kHz

[isham]

hi Flex !

the only real challenger soundwise to the linn forat 9000 you tested is the SC studio 440 in my humble opinion.
(yes linn 9000/forat are 12 bit), jeez someone is selling a studio 440 for 4k $ on Ebay, it seems crazy even they are quite rare and have an appealing sonic signature...
good luck