Looking to get into the recording industry...

[Mojo Man]

I did a search, but to no avail (if anyone knows of a preexisting thread like this, please direct me to it). I am by no means an engineer in any sense of the word, but rather an informed enthusiast with an unhealthy obsession. I entered the world of high-end home recording rather by mistake. I run a small operation in vintage gear sales, and I came across some vintage Neve 1084's that needed some work. Rather than fix them up and sell them right away, I decided to see what the fuss was all about since there seemed to be an air of mystique surrounding these boxes. Needless to say, it was the beginning of a lifelong affliction, the development of a severe proclivity for all aspects of recording.

Still, I find myself wanting more. Thus, I have been thinking of making a change into the professional recording world, though I am at a loss for what steps to take. I am young and inexperienced, a combination that is unappealing to say the least for potential employers. My question is this: how can I gain the necessary experience to become an engineer and learn the proper ropes of recording? Should I be looking for a collegiate program? Is an internship a good way to ease into the industry? I have been talking to various studios in the area, but few seem to be interested in allowing someone of my experience to come work. Any suggestions?

--
Wheels

[ianbryn11]

gets some bands into your studio and start recording....

[Raider]

The very first thing I do is search Amazon and buy a book.
I bought "mixing AUDIO" by Roey Izhaki which is almost a text book on the basics of recording.

To look at it another way, you need to understand Basic Electronics before embarking on a career (or education) to become an electrical engineer.

Be aware the recording industry and music industry in general are in turmoil right now, with the economy, and online delivery systems.

There's ALOT to absorb so don't expect to get it overnight.

[PoorGlory]

-There are next to zero potential employers.
-You will not get an internship with zero experience and zero knowledge
-Paying to attend a school for audio recording is hotly debated around here as to whether or not it's worth the time and money. What's not debated is the ratio of students who graduate from an audio school and make a living with their education, versus the students who graduated and never work in the field. Hint: very, very few will get a job that is related to this field.

Ask yourself: How many albums have you purchased in 2009? That will give you an idea of the kind of market you want to enter. No one wants to pay for music, but everyone wants to go to school to learn how to make it.

Music recording is a dying profession. That's one thing no one is debating.

[evangelista]

1. Record someone

2. Charge them for it


Congratulations!

[Fletcher]

[chuckles]... guess you'll have to figure it out the way the rest of us did. One of the nice things about this industry is that by the sheer nature of how difficult it is to break in, it helps keep the riff-raff out.

Unfortunately they have all kinds of 'kordin' skools that promise the moon and deliver blue cheese... but that's a topic to search while you're trying to get in.

If I were going to try to start today [which I wouldn't], I would probably start by hanging around bars that still have bands and trying to get a crap paying job in one of them... and then network from there.

Best of luck!! You're gonna need it.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

-There are next to zero potential employers.
-You will not get an internship with zero experience and zero knowledge
-Paying to attend a school for audio recording is hotly debated around here as to whether or not it's worth the time and money. What's not debated is the ratio of students who graduate from an audio school and make a living with their education, versus the students who graduated and never work in the field. Hint: very, very few will get a job that is related to this field.

Ask yourself: How many albums have you purchased in 2009? That will give you an idea of the kind of market you want to enter. No one wants to pay for music, but everyone wants to go to school to learn how to make it.

Music recording is a dying profession. That's one thing no one is debating.

Because musicians are recording themselves in their home project studios to save money, because they don't have as much money because people don't buy music anymore, they steal it.

Where am I learning many tips, tricks and techniques about recording?
Right here! From professionals kind enough to share. This kind of resource wasn't available when I started out with my Fostex 4 track in 1991.

[robertshaw]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

[chuckles]... guess you'll have to figure it out the way the rest of us did. One of the nice things about this industry is that by the sheer nature of how difficult it is to break in, it helps keep the riff-raff out.

Unfortunately they have all kinds of 'kordin' skools that promise the moon and deliver blue cheese... but that's a topic to search while you're trying to get in.

If I were going to try to start today [which I wouldn't], I would probably start by hanging around bars that still have bands and trying to get a crap paying job in one of them... and then network from there.

Best of luck!! You're gonna need it.

The key to success in the recording industry is the same as any industry Kiss A$$ and Kick A$$, work your butt off and hope for a lot off luck to come your way. Just be ready to have the skills to back it all up if you do get a break. Personally I'd rather play the lottery. I think at least my chances are better.

But you can make a living recording without too much trouble. Though the economy sux now when things get better you can solicit bands and try to get into some other work like video production or mastering/duplication to offset. Nothing is a given but lots of people do make a good living just work hard and stay hungry. Always keep in the back of your mind that there is always someone better at it than you so just keep trying to excel. Too many engineers today are arrogant are not very good and think they know more than they do. That attitude will only hold you back in the long run. Assume nothing, be humble, absorb all information possible and always try to do a better job than you did the previous time.

In the words of K.G. "Anything's Possible!!!!"

[Mojo Man]

Thanks guys. There's a lot of really good information here. So, what do you guys think is a good way of gaining the experience and knowledge needed to make a living in the industry? I know enough to hit record and mix a song or two for a local band, but is this the best way to get into things? My knowledge is so limited at this point I would hardly be able to build a reputation as a good recording engineer, and I might end up burning too many bridges in the process. Is there any way I can arm myself with the knowledge and experience necessary to survive in the music industry, or do I just jump in head first? I guess ultimately that's my decision to make. I realize the recording industry is a volatile market right now, and likewise I would really like to take the best approach possible to maximize my chances of success. Thanks again to all who have offered there insight and experience in the industry. Any and all comments are welcome!!

--
Wheels

[Darm]

You might thinking of doing some live work, I think that would be a pretty good place to start. It would also be a way of networking...
Start by unloading boxes, and make a way up to the FOH position, then you'll know a lot about sound, and you'll know a lot of bands to record.
People will ALWAYS go to the shows, and people will always need shows, no matter what

[fanriffic]

Originally Posted by Wheeler004

Thanks guys. There's a lot of really good information here. So, what do you guys think is a good way of gaining the experience and knowledge needed to make a living in the industry? I know enough to hit record and mix a song or two for a local band, but is this the best way to get into things? My knowledge is so limited at this point I would hardly be able to build a reputation as a good recording engineer, and I might end up burning too many bridges in the process. Is there any way I can arm myself with the knowledge and experience necessary to survive in the music industry, or do I just jump in head first? I guess ultimately that's my decision to make. I realize the recording industry is a volatile market right now, and likewise I would really like to take the best approach possible to maximize my chances of success. Thanks again to all who have offered there insight and experience in the industry. Any and all comments are welcome!!

--
Wheels

Although there's never been a worse time to get into the industry..as far as knowledge goes...there's never been a *better* time to learn..at least the theory..of any and everything...forums;like this,youtube and a shit-load more is out there for the digesting.

..I'd have given my right nut for all these resources when I was starting out.

mmm..Don't go offering your 'services' at this stage..will likely do your career more harm than good.

I wouldn't go the intern route..or college either..

My advice would be;spend a year researching,reading up...asking questions on this forum..get a decent DAW (Logic,Cubase,DP,PT-something standard) that you can experiment with and put some of the techniques you'll be learning about into practice.
With these programs you can learn 95% of what you need to know about EQ,Compression,mixing,routing,FX etc,etc.
A couple of mics,a basic soundcard/converter...experiment,experiment,research,research...repeat..
Listen to lots of music and try to analyse what is going on.....the golden ears CD set is a really great way to begin developing those analytical listening skills.

Don't give up the day job...

...then see where you are come christmas next year.

All the best,

F

[Michael_Joly]

Move to China. I'm not kidding.

China has created an urban middle class in less than a generation. I was there in October and was stunned at the changes I saw compared to when I was last there 20 years ago.

Because of the size of the youth population, the popularity of music, a burgeoning middle class and affordable technology the world is about to witness the 21st century Asian equivalent of the birth of rock n roll in the US and UK ca. 1955-1963.

You want a recording gig? Learn a bit of Mandarin (just to be polite, all the young urban people speak English anyway) and move to Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou and teach English while you're getting established.

Forget about cracking the nut in the West. Take a look at the US Dept of Labor's "Occupational Outlook Handbook" for projected job openings, competition expected and salaries ($30K / yr) if you don't believe me.

The music business in the West was built on a post-WWII middle class consumer culture with a huge youth population of music makers and music buyers that co-existed in a time with fewer media choices - thus the relative popularity of recording music. Those conditions do not exist in the West now. Basing a future career on a played out paradigm is not a good idea. Besides, the people in the game are struggling to stay in and don't welcome hungry mouths.

[TRCS]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Move to China. I'm not kidding.

China has created an urban middle class in less than a generation. I was there in October and was stunned at the changes I saw compared to when I was last there 20 years ago.

Because of the size of the youth population, the popularity of music, a burgeoning middle class and affordable technology the world is about to witness the 21st century Asian equivalent of the birth of rock n roll in the US and UK ca. 1955-1963.

You want a recording gig? Learn a bit of Mandarin (just to be polite, all the young urban people speak English anyway) and move to Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou and teach English while you're getting established.

Forget about cracking the nut in the West. Take a look at the US Dept of Labor's "Occupational Outlook Handbook" for projected job openings, competition expected and salaries ($30K / yr) if you don't believe me.

The music business in the West was built on a post-WWII middle class consumer culture with a huge youth population of music makers and music buyers that co-existed in a time with fewer media choices - thus the relative popularity of recording music. Those conditions do not exist in the West now. Basing a future career on a played out paradigm is not a good idea. Besides, the people in the game are struggling to stay in and don't welcome hungry mouths.

Strange you say that... Just yesterday I was telling my girlfriend we should move there for me to start a studio and her to teach english. Weird. China always has interested me...

[Michael_Joly]

Its really doable. China is pushing English literacy so there are teaching opportunities. There a Gearslutz member jkung, a client of mine, who is based in Beijing so you can start your audio networking right here.

The OP wants to get into the studio business. Its as simple as placing oneself where there are the most opportunities - not the least.

[dabigfrog]

pay me 25k per "semester" (aka 50k/year) you can intern for no pay at my studio.

learn how to make records.


see your future ; be your future ; cha cha cha ka ka ka ka ka

no seriously pay me 50k. we'll teach you.

[Makinithappen]

PoorGlory and Fletcher pretty much ended this thread. Good luck with your endeavors. .....

EDIT

Originally Posted by Wheeler004

I did a search, but to no avail (if anyone knows of a preexisting thread like this, please direct me to it).

I guess I missed this gem.

You DO realize there is this pretty much this EXACT thread posted once a week or so....

[BrandRecordingCo]

Whatever you do, do not go to school and pay big bucks for a degree in music/recording. I say this from personal experience. While school was fun, and I learned some, most everything I know and use I learned on my own from personal study and practice. Now I'm $50,000 in debt, and do not work in the audio field after being graduated a little over a year. I'm still looking everyday for my first job. Right now, I record local bands in my home studio when I can get the work and do my own music in my spare time, while taking on any other projects that may come along here and there. I should have went to school to be an engineer or something, and I would still know as much about recording as I do, but would be making lot's more money with a useful degree to buy fancy audio gear!

So, my advice and as someone said earlier, go get some books on recording, check out online sites for tips, and try them, research and practice. If you are a musician, record an album of covers you like or some of you own songs if you are a songwriter. This will help you practice everything from recording and arranging to editing to mixing and mastering. Once you feel you are learning, maybe try and get into a big studio where you live and offer to intern for free or just hang out...maybe they will let you. This will help you see a real studio in action and give you a feel, while getting your foot in the door. As you progress, start advertising more and freelance in local studios, and/or buy up some nice gear and set up an acoustically sound home recording rig.

Sorry to say, but you won't just walk in and make a living. You will either catch a break that will spark your career with lots of luck, or you will take audio work on the side as much as you can while working a real job to pay the bills. It would be nice if that real job was in production or something, but good luck. They are tough to find...I'm STILL looking!!!

[teo]

Originally Posted by Wheeler004

I did a search, but to no avail (if anyone knows of a preexisting thread like this, please direct me to it). I am by no means an engineer in any sense of the word, but rather an informed enthusiast with an unhealthy obsession. I entered the world of high-end home recording rather by mistake. I run a small operation in vintage gear sales, and I came across some vintage Neve 1084's that needed some work. Rather than fix them up and sell them right away, I decided to see what the fuss was all about since there seemed to be an air of mystique surrounding these boxes. Needless to say, it was the beginning of a lifelong affliction, the development of a severe proclivity for all aspects of recording.

How old are you?
If you can fix a 1084, that's something that could (I said could) get your foot in the door of a real studio right there. It's definitely more valuable than learning to "mix" at FS or SAE...

[toolskid]

music industry in UK is in pretty dire straits - I would avoid it like the plague if I was you...

[RockManDan]

how to make a million dollars in the music industry?

start with 2 million.

old joke, but unfortunately too true.

[shanabit]

Get a REAL Degree in something that will allow you to make a good living

Use THAT cash flow to fund what you love to buy gear and pay the bills

Study anything and everything you can about recording

Record anything and everything you can to gain experience

Dont waste your money on schools ( all the expensive ones) as all youll get is debt with absolutely NO guarantee of employment

Dont be the cleaning boy (Internship) in a studio for the arrogant, pompous "engineers" who feel you deserve to clean the toilet and get them coffee for NO PAY.

[fanriffic]

Originally Posted by teo

How old are you?
If you can fix a 1084, that's something that could (I said could) get your foot in the door of a real studio right there. It's definitely more valuable than learning to "mix" at FS or SAE...

thumbsup
+1

..decent tech skills will improve your prospects BIG time.

[J.S.Vega III]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

Move to China. I'm not kidding.

China has created an urban middle class in less than a generation. I was there in October and was stunned at the changes I saw compared to when I was last there 20 years ago.

Because of the size of the youth population, the popularity of music, a burgeoning middle class and affordable technology the world is about to witness the 21st century Asian equivalent of the birth of rock n roll in the US and UK ca. 1955-1963.

You want a recording gig? Learn a bit of Mandarin (just to be polite, all the young urban people speak English anyway) and move to Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou and teach English while you're getting established.

Forget about cracking the nut in the West. Take a look at the US Dept of Labor's "Occupational Outlook Handbook" for projected job openings, competition expected and salaries ($30K / yr) if you don't believe me.

The music business in the West was built on a post-WWII middle class consumer culture with a huge youth population of music makers and music buyers that co-existed in a time with fewer media choices - thus the relative popularity of recording music. Those conditions do not exist in the West now. Basing a future career on a played out paradigm is not a good idea. Besides, the people in the game are struggling to stay in and don't welcome hungry mouths.

It's what I did, but it's not quite as easy as you make out, Michael. Most of my work is with foreigners as my Chinese is ok but not good enough.

I also do live recording at one of the best venues here to counter that limitation, but budgets are close to zero despite all the good things happening... these kids are basically poor and the labels even poorer.

It takes time to get established, but I hope to be closer to where I want to be soon. I am optimistic.

[glenn Taylor]

What type of equipment do you record to?
GT,

[rockstheparty]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

-There are next to zero potential employers.
-You will not get an internship with zero experience and zero knowledge
-Paying to attend a school for audio recording is hotly debated around here as to whether or not it's worth the time and money. What's not debated is the ratio of students who graduate from an audio school and make a living with their education, versus the students who graduated and never work in the field. Hint: very, very few will get a job that is related to this field.

Ask yourself: How many albums have you purchased in 2009? That will give you an idea of the kind of market you want to enter. No one wants to pay for music, but everyone wants to go to school to learn how to make it.

Music recording is a dying profession. That's one thing no one is debating.

Yeesh! This is what we're all thinking, but it still hurts to see it written out so bluntly.

I don't mean to completely derail this thread, but... Given this, but also given that music isn't going to go away, where is the industry going? Are artists going to be sponsored by big corporations, used on commercials, etc? Are we going to be working for Nike and Coca Cola? Are the artists going to have to become the recording/mix engineers? Will the recording/mix engineer become part of the band? Will labels vanish, and the musicians go directly to the distributor?

I'm curious to everyone's thoughts...

[Mix Master]

It takes a massively ignorant leap of blind faith, which is suited for youth. Putting in 100 hour work weeks at 20 is a boatload easier than it is at 40(ish). I'm not suggesting at all that one needs to be a fool, but had anyone with any level of success know exactly what they were getting into, few would have dared.
There simply is no substitute for time served. It's a craft whose fluency doesn't come easily nor naturally. If you're passionate about it and grind it out, success will somehow find you

[Sander A]

Originally Posted by Raider

Because musicians are recording themselves in their home project studios to save money, because they don't have as much money because people don't buy music anymore, they steal it.

For me thats the reason I can make a living out of it. Basically what I do is cleaning up other peoples mess.
I'm no expert at all but (I don't know if I translate it right) In the land of the blind one eye is king