Is recording fun???

[leftunknown]

As you all may have figured out I am not a Recording Engineer in any form: So this question is to all my fellow Recording Engineers out there: Is recording fun?

[leftunknown]

I guess the reason I ask this is because all of the engineers I have dealt with and currently deal with do not seem happy. They just sit there in front of whatever console they are controlling at the time with a straight face and never sound very excited. I know they are concentrating, but damn, can't they crack a smile? Just a little one?? Please???????

[dasbin]

I hate to say it, but every older (35+) engineer I've met in person has been uber-serious and usually kind of a downer to be around.
Doesn't necessarily apply to the guys on this forum, but I've never met any of them. I have met some very successful local guys though, and never really liked any of them.

I've decided to try to use this to my advantage and include "young and fun atmosphere" in my studio's advertising.
Seriously, I think most people would rather work with a producer or engineer that they can horse around with and crack a beer with at the end of the day. It makes my work day far more bearable if I can have fun, too. Obviously a level of professionalism is required, but so is a human element.

Of course, I've worked with some pretty awkward and serious musicians, too... musicians aren't usually the "just want to have fun" type, no matter what their age. So who knows if it's the right approach or not.

IMO, we work in an industry that takes itself far too seriously. This is the entertainment business, after all.


As to "is recording fun"... well, it just depends on what you make it. It's almost always interesting, but that's something different. Other than that it's like any other job. If you're around good people and have a good atmosphere it's fun. If it's not, or you're too serious about it, it's not fun and everyone just gets stressed out.
I started doing this because I had notions about it being a complex and specialized process that was fun, interesting, paid well, and something to be proud of. Turns out many of those aren't true. In retrospect, sometimes I think I should have just opened a backpacker's hostel or something. But, I do have a good chunk of the "I love music too much" in me for that.
For pity's sake though, I wish the whole thing wasn't such a heavy ordeal to everyone involved....

[zimv20]

i have fun when progress is being made and the creativity (on both sides of the desk) is high.

i don't have fun when the band members argue with each other, when they're not prepared enough to be in, when gear breaks, when i make a mistake, etc.

[henryrobinett]

For me? No. But that's because I'm a musician who has turned to engineering, like a lot of us have, to vent my creativity and suppliment my income. It is recently apparent to me that it is not fun for me. Making my own music is fun, but to be treated like a second class person who depends, it is thought, on orders from other musicians who I can play circles around and know the process of recording and mixing better, is not fun. I need either an attitude adjustment, or a higher class of clients, or a better reputation behind the board or to stick to playing music and recording only myself.

But I always have a good time and am upbeat and fun. I'm not droll like the other engineers you mentioned. I do know what you mean . . .

[eligit]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

For me? No. But that's because I'm a musician who has turned to engineering, like a lot of us have, to vent my creativity and suppliment my income. It is recently apparent to me that it is not fun for me. Making my own music is fun, but to be treated like a second class person who depends, it is thought, on orders from other musicians who I can play circles around and know the process of recording and mixing better, is not fun. I need either an attitude adjustment, or a higher class of clients, or a better reputation behind the board or to stick to playing music and recording only myself.

But I always have a good time and am upbeat and fun. I'm not droll like the other engineers you mentioned. I do know what you mean . . .

your post makes me wonder just how many middle class engineers would MUCH rather be a musician. or rather they ARE musicians but this is the work they can get in the current environment. i can imagine suffering through sessions with uninteresting players and bands.

then again you could be teaching jingle bells to 10 year olds on the guitar for $40 an hour. like me.

[John Suitcase]

I enjoy recording a lot. I'm pretty open to band's suggestions, and if they have an idea, I never say no. I may say it'll take this that and the other, and x amount of time, but I never say no. I am a musician, and I play in a band for my own enjoyment, but I left a pretty easy business to be able to record full time.

The only part I don't really enjoy is trying to round up business now and again. I'd much rather be in an actual session! In fact, if all the guys who don't like it would quit, I think the world would be a better place. Of course, I think that's probably true of all jobs in general.

I'm a utopian at heart ;-)

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by leftunknown

Is recording fun?

HELL YES!

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by eligit

your post makes me wonder just how many middle class engineers would MUCH rather be a musician. or rather they ARE musicians but this is the work they can get in the current environment. i can imagine suffering through sessions with uninteresting players and bands.

then again you could be teaching jingle bells to 10 year olds on the guitar for $40 an hour. like me.

AHAH !!! I always thought you music teachers were a bunch of crooks !!!!!

[PRobb]

Originally Posted by Drumsound

HELL YES!

I just spent a day in a big, great sounding room with lovely gear recording a jazz trio. Drums, upright bass and a singer/ trombone/ ukulele player. (Makes sense somehow when he does it). All live, no phones. Don't tell the client, but on that kind of day I'd pay them to be there.

[Ninnyhammer]

Originally Posted by dasbin

I hate to say it, but every older (35+) engineer I've met ....

I must take exception to these sorts of "ageist" comments. fuuck

On the other hand, I agree with just about everything else you said.

I don't qualify as a pro engineer, but then again I've been recording myself and obsessing over the absurd minutae of sound for many years...and though I'm a hideous old crone of 43, I'm having the time of my life.

I have one delightful example of an experienced professional with a fabulously positive attitude to point you to -- Slipperman. This guy has been around for years, really knows his art, and is hilarious. You can check him out here .

Whether a person is happy or not has to do with attitude, making life choices that are authentic to whatever it is you want and are, and being at peace with those choices.

Great thread idea.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by dasbin

I hate to say it, but every older (35+) engineer I've met in person has been uber-serious and usually kind of a downer to be around.

hmm... i don't see that at all. in fact, i wholeheartedly disagree! names of fun guys from this forum would include dave martin (used to be around here), michael waegner, george massenburg, jay kahrs (he's not over 35 yet... but you get the idea), fletcher. other guys from around town would include bil vorndick, bart bush, brady barnett, seva, frank wells, jim kaiser, etc. etc. etc.

i think in order to be a good engineer, you have to have a sense of humor, and have to be a good hang. it makes 12 & 14 hours sessions go by a lot easier.

--jon

[djui5]

Recording is a lot of fun....


Mixing is funner!

[Jeff A. Roberts]

Happy 54 year old nut case engineer here. I will do just about anything to get things happy. Surprise puppet shows for singers, surprise pornography, hideous puns, torrents of praise for good takes, whatever it takes. And I'm NOT a frustrated musician, because I basically can't play anything.........

I like to record music well, which makes everybody happy.

[ArcCirDude]

It's an absolute kick in the ass....most of the time. Computer crashes piss me off to no end. I am, however, rather lucky in that I don't rely on my studio for my main source of income so I can be picky as to what projects I am willing to take. But yeah, I love it and that's why I'm good at what I do. I feel that whatever job you're doing, if you're not having a good time, it's time for a career change. After working twenty years as a freelance trumpet/piano player, I was tired of playing the same old (great, yet tired) tunes, so I got my masters and started teaching improv and music tech at the university here in town. Now I can limit my playing to my own jazz projects and my recording to interesting projects. You yourself are often the only thing standing in the way of happiness in your limited time on this big blue rock. And now, please feel free to kick the soapbox out from under my feet...

[leftunknown]

Originally Posted by djui5

Recording is a lot of fun....


Mixing is funner!

Hell yeah!! Now Mix Engineers ALWAYS rock!! They make the song bleed and that is one of my favorite parts of the whole process, so I agree with this!

You want to know what I hate?................

HOG Engineers....those people who think they can do it all...hence: Track, Mix, Master, and let's not forget produce...and then the occasional idiots who has to play something on the album as well, because yeah, the above is just not enough

[pan60]

fun

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by djui5

Mixing is funner!

see... that's fascinating to me. i absolutely LOVE to track. the best part of my job is getting to choose different signal chains based on the source, interact with the musicians, and hear the song come together one piece at a time. when i mix tracks other people have tracked, i have fun, sure... but i keep thinking, "i wish they had brightened that up a bit on the way in", or "why the hell did he compress the vocal like that?!". and the couple of times i've done mastering, i've just plain gotten bored. all the fun work is already done.

this post really didn't have a point, other than to say that we should each recognize our strong points, and send the work we're weak on to our fellow gearslutz!



--jon

[Curve Dominant]

I've noticed an interesting phenomenon in this regard:

Normally, when tracking a vocalist, guitarist, etc, I am dancing around, bobbing my head about to the beat, punching the air when the musician hits something cool, etc. I'm just like that, comes naturally...BUT:

Occasionally during a take there's something distracting or preoccupying me, like concentrating on something about the signal chain, or thinking about something else I'm hearing in the mix - it can be ANYTHING really - but I'm not moving around, no dancing or smiling etc...and when that happens I can FEEL the vibe go out of the musician, and the take they're playing loses something that it had before. Every time. The effect is quite noticable...no, it's OBVIOUS.

I really believe that one of my primary functions as a producer/engineer, is to keep the vibe UP while recording. Often I'm the only other person in the room with the musician/vocalist, and they need to have some sort of energy to respond to, to feed off of, like a "stand-in" for the audience they usually have at their live venues. And I actually like playing that role of "cheerleader" for the artist while recording them.

That's why the bigtime pros always say "it's not about the gear." It's not, it's about the vibe during the event. Just like at a live show, the "audience" in the studio can either make the vibe, or kill it, and one way or the other you hear that in the resulting recording.

[JonCraig]

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

That's why the bigtime pros always say "it's not about the gear." It's not, it's about the vibe during the event.

while "vibe" or "atmosphere" certainly plays an integral part of recording bands, i'm constantly fascinated when i get to do sessions with a-team musicians here in nashvegas. good session players have an incredible ability to perform with the same energy *and* consistency take after take. i could do jumping jacks in the control room, or i could stare at a hole in the wall... and (with a great session player) the resulting sound is the same.

am i discounting vibe? no, nothing of the sort. am i saying how awe-inspired i am by great musicians, who don't have to rely on an external stimulus to get a great take? you betcha.

the types of musicians we're talking about here are apples and oranges, so i'm not trying to start some sort of vibe flame war. just making an observation. i wish i got to record session players more often.

--jon

[Sqye]

Jonathan Perl always has a smile and twinkle in his eye - he's the MAN. Paul Kozel gets very serious, but also has a gteat sense of humour - both killin engineers, and great people!!!

They also run the facility at the sonic arts center.


http://sonic.arts.ccny.cuny.edu/staff.html

Also, JP just hosted an Apple Logic Training DVD!!

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by eligit

your post makes me wonder just how many middle class engineers would MUCH rather be a musician. or rather they ARE musicians but this is the work they can get in the current environment. i can imagine suffering through sessions with uninteresting players and bands.

then again you could be teaching jingle bells to 10 year olds on the guitar for $40 an hour. like me.

Yeah, well it is kind of funny. After investing all of this money in all of this gear, it was my wife that pointed it out to me.

But I do get impatient when the "artist" expects the engineer to put the magic there, opposed to playing it in the first place. If you can't play, work on learning how to play. Auto-tune is OK on the odd note, but when it gets used too much to mask a performance, . . . or when I'm expected to fix major timing fiascos. Forget it.

I love music, in no small part, because I love the musicians who make the music. The process of getting better is important too me as well. I still try and practice two hours or more a day. So the idea of passing off a lie bothers me. Engineers are playing too much of a role IMHO. I don't mean to hijack this thread as this is treading into different subject matter.

I record my band and other jazz musicians live and in the studio. This is a pleasure. Mixing that is a pleasure when I've been trusted to do it alone, and am given feedback on the roughs. But when I'm doing a price deal and a rock band is hyper sensitive to every nuance, yet they're not willing to pay for the work, but can complain all day about things, because they've visited harmony central a couple of times and think they have a leg up, but they didn't play it right in the first place, and didn't use the right amp (they thought it didn't matter - I thought it was the sound they wanted), and when you have to continually tell the guitarist he's out of tune, then complain that the track's out of tune because he refused to tune it,. . . then they figure they'd just want the tracks to mix it themselves because they have a PC and Cubase at home . . . and it becomes a disaster, . . . Man, I don't need the headache and aggrevation. And you know, these guys can't even PLAY with me. WTF am I doing???

My wife said I should do it any more. When i's good it's good and the money is good. But I'm a musician/composer/bandleader. It feels like a step down. And when I have these snot assed musicians just react to me as if "you're just an engineer" vibe, well you know **** you.

Now a musician/producer/engineer is not a step down at all. I like it when I do that. Feels more at home

[7 Hz]

Originally Posted by leftunknown

You want to know what I hate?................

HOG Engineers....those people who think they can do it all...hence: Track, Mix, Master, and let's not forget produce...and then the occasional idiots who has to play something on the album as well, because yeah, the above is just not enough

Guess Lee Perry, Prince, Mike Oldfield ect forgot to pick up your memo on this!

Anyway, thing is, I bet if you are a sucessfull engineer (good gigs, nice income, working with people you like, working with the best gear) the job is easy. The further down you go, the harder and worse it gets. Befor you know it, you are the producer, engineer, mastering engineer, session musician, cleaner, ect in a studio that does loads of demos for new bands and the like... some will be great, some will be awefull.

I think in this sense, an engineer is always limited by the people (producers, artists, studios) arround him/her, and therefore it makes sense if you are wanting to be a really sucessfull engineer to move to somewhere with lots of studios in a place you like the music coming out off. Not easy... right place, right time stuff.

[5down1up]

first its fun ,

next few years it will be raining a lot ,

and finally ... the suns back again


(damn wheres my umbrella)

[djui5]

Originally Posted by leftunknown

HOG Engineers....those people who think they can do it all...hence: Track, Mix, Master, and let's not forget produce...and then the occasional idiots who has to play something on the album as well, because yeah, the above is just not enough

hahahahahha

[Mertmo]

Is it fun?

BIG TIME!!!!!!

Yeah, there are suck moments, but all in all...
I would make records for free. (given that I like the people and the music --
wait a minute, I HAVE made records for free...!)

I love how every time it's different. All the way from me having no artistic
involvement beyond "I think you should tune before this take", or "I think you
might be able to do it better.", to the other side of the spectrum where the
artist trusts me to produce everything and play half the guitar or whatever.
It's always different and I love that.

I'm obsessed with making records. The fact that I get to facilitate my own and other musician's recordings and unleash them on the listening public fills me with joy.

And in regards to the studio process, I will now quote the great Lanois:
"Encouragement goes a long way in the studio."

One of the most fundamental truths of record production IMO.

[PRobb]

Originally Posted by 7 Hz

Guess Lee Perry, Prince, Mike Oldfield ect forgot to pick up your memo on this!

Add Trent Reznor to that list. But those guys are the exceptions.

[Eagertone]

two factors:

A) clients

and

B) clients

the reason some of you mention embittered older audio engineers is because they have dealt with more of the two factors listed above... the majority of whom are less than ideal. of course if you hit 'big time' maybe you get to record some real gems, but for the rest of us... it's a rare and treasured event (the talented artist that records with you).

despite the down moments and frustrations... all things considered, it beats the hell out of any other job!

[Curve Dominant]

Originally Posted by JonCraig

while "vibe" or "atmosphere" certainly plays an integral part of recording bands, i'm constantly fascinated when i get to do sessions with a-team musicians here in nashvegas. good session players have an incredible ability to perform with the same energy *and* consistency take after take. i could do jumping jacks in the control room, or i could stare at a hole in the wall... and (with a great session player) the resulting sound is the same.

Nashville session musicians do have a tendancy to play with uncanny consistency. That's why they are Nashville session musicians. Those guys are machines, and if ever in your shoes I would still be dancing in the control room.

Original artists in places like Philly, on the other hand, tend to sing and play on a more intuitive level. Although perhaps not capable of the consistency of a seasoned session musician, they are, when inspired, capable of providing flashes of brilliance no other musician could ever replicate.

So, yes, I agree, the session musician and the original artist are two distinct recording subjects.

It's nice to be able to have fun recording both.

[mesh boogie]

Originally Posted by Eagertone

two factors:

A) clients

and

B) clients

the reason some of you mention embittered older audio engineers is because they have dealt with more of the two factors listed above... the majority of whom are less than ideal. of course if you hit 'big time' maybe you get to record some real gems, but for the rest of us... it's a rare and treasured event (the talented artist that records with you).

despite the down moments and frustrations... all things considered, it beats the hell out of any other job!

i think this sums it all up right here