Plug-in Compressors really suck! Are EQ's better?

[GMR]

Everytime I put a compressor plug-in "Waves RComp or Crunchessor" at mixdown it kills the sound of my lead vocal. These Plug-ins really do suck IMO, so I pull out my 1176 and it gives me the sound I want. With the plug-ins I can't stop cringing Something just sounds off when I put them on!

So I was wondering are those URS EQ plug-ins better than the compressor plug-ins? I read good comments about them but I'd like to hear from the guys who actually use real outboard EQ's and has compared them to the plug-ins.

Should I start investing for my Great River EQ or Massive Passive now? or do these URS Plug-ins sound half decent? The only half decent EQ I had was in my Voxbox which I sold cuz I didn't love the pre! But I need a good EQ.

Thanks for your help

[gwailoh]

Hi, are you interested only in URS eq plugs, or also plugs from other manufacturers?

(If the latter, I've had good experiences with the MDW hi-res eq. I tend to use it mostly for high-pass and low-pass filtering, where it seems to do a great job of not imposing wacky artifacts on the unfiltered frequencies. Usually for audible sweetening I'll go out to an API 560 or 550B and print the result to a new track. I hope this is the kind of feedback you're looking for!)

[Jules]

Yes..

For me with Pro Tools

EQ's are bearable

Compression seems to still be pretty crappy on plug ins

I predict good compression plugs may soon come from

George Massenburg
Dave Derr
Cranesong
URS

COME ON GUYS!

In PT these seem to be the best of the bunch that I have tried so far....

Sony
UA
McDSP
BombFactory

[kats]

I can't take them at all. And I'm not talking about the last 5% either. I can hear a good OTB eq working at 1db whereas ITB it doesn't. I'm not a gear snob either, but honestly, I just don't think ITB eq comes remotely close.

[KurtR]

How about the 1176 plug-in?

http://www.uaudio.com/products/digit...pak/index.html

[borau]

IMVHO, It's rather the opposite.

I can bear too use a plug-in compressor or three, specially the UA(TDM) 1176, and LA2a, altough not competing with the magic of the corresponding hardware, they doesn't ruin audio either.

I cringe, however, whenever I have to use plug-in Eq's, they simple doesn't work as they should. The best (in the TDM world,atleast) are the URS stuff, and the Sony Eq.
But even with these I feel that I have to do atleast 3-4dB's of change, to get the result of barely touching a knob on a good analogue EQ.
Uneccesary to say, the sonic compromise of Eq, perfectly corresponds to using 4dB's of change.

I'm really uncomfortable with it.

I'm sort of even more uncomfortable with digital Hi-pass filters.

And why is it that I feel the urge to remove so much 330Hz on the master of every digital mix I do? Is it simply the lack of the tape head bump?

[84K]

Good Compressor Plugins:

McDSP
Sony
RVOX
R Compressor
Slightly Rude

They are all good if you use them correctly. You can not think of them like you think of analog compressors. I am not saying they are as good, but they are very useable.

[absrec]

I think the magic with software eqs is that you almost have to compress a little more going into the eq so you can hear the adjustments better, if that makes any sense. Compression and eq have always walked hand in hand, but ITB you have to use them a little different.

But I do agree that the outboard stuff takes the software to the cleaners!

[GMR]

Originally Posted by 84K

Good Compressor Plugins:

McDSP
Sony
RVOX
R Compressor
Slightly Rude

They are all good if you use them correctly. You can not think of them like you think of analog compressors. I am not saying they are as good, but they are very useable.

I work with cubase SX3 on PC.
Well there are 2 that I have (Waves shit) in there and to me on the lead vocal they fock up the sound. So I totally disagree with you 84K. On instrument tracks I use them if I have to but on the lead vocal I can't stand it. I compress going in a bit with my 1176 and at mixdown I need a few Db's of compression also.

I tried these plug-ins and would never be happy until I take them off and go back out and in to my 1176ln (not UA BTW). Then I'm happy and can even take off some eq that was needed when the plug-in was patched in.

If the plug in EQ's sound good, what I need is always a 12k on my lead vocal with the mic I use (E49) so I'm looking for an Eq that sounds good up there really. I use the sonalksis but I'm not crazy about it. Even when I add 2.5 db .

I'm open to any good plug-in, not just URS but by the responses I think I'll have to invest $$$ in a good outboard EQ. I heard good things about the Great River!

[matt thomas]

I've just bought all the URS plugs, they are FAR better then the waves stuff

If I was only going to a couple of URS I would get the API and Fulltec

I've never had the pleasure of using a real API but am considering buying some after using the plug!

All my out board eq's are neve and ssl, and I find the URS usable, I am sure I could record and mix a professional sounding album using only URS

narco

[juicemaster1500]

Point one; upsampling helps.

Point two; the learning curve is much steeper with most plugins than lets's say an 1176.

More buttons, more control.

[picksail]

Well I for one can make a Ren Compressor do most anything except for adding character.

Some of these plugs just require a little massaging. No big deal. You can make them work for you.

[GMR]

Originally Posted by juicemaster1500

Point one; upsampling helps.

Point two; the learning curve is much steeper with most plugins than lets's say an 1176.

More buttons, more control.

Less tone! Woolier sound! I'd rather have less options with great sounds "real 1176" than tons of option but crappy sounds "RComp".

IMO all these plug-in compressor suck compared to real outboard gear. I had a mix I was working on and the vocal track would never sound right whatever i did with the Plug in patched in, I tried both. And I was just compressing a few db's, then I got pissed and patched in my 1176 and it was like Whao all my problems were solved! I could even take off the Eq that I had patched in also! to me it made a big difference. That's when I stopped using compressor Plug-ins!

anyway these plug-in EQ's, you would trust on a lead vocal that is loud and upfront in the mix. I'll try the URS, worse scenario I will always be able to use them on intrument tracks!

[PhilE]

There is one plug compressor I have to stand up for... the fairchild I like.

[juicemaster1500]

Originally Posted by narco

I've just bought all the URS plugs, they are FAR better then the waves stuff

This is just a far to general statement, I have all the urs stuff pluss waves, and it's all good, it's probably easier to f5ck something up with the waves eq's, pluss the limited controls of the urs plugins can be helpful in not screwing stuff up..

I think the waves linear phase eq is very good, and I might pick up the q-clone too.. it sounds better to me than most of the urs stuff.. but it's a pain to use.

[norman_nomad]

Originally Posted by GMR

I record and my vocal tracks with a good vocal chain and I everytime I put a compressor plug-in "Waves RComp or Crunchessor" at mixdown it kills the sound of my lead vocal. These Plug-ins really do suck IMO, so I pull out my 1176 and it sounds perfect again. It gives me the sound I want. With the plug-ins I can't stop cringing Something just sounds off when I put them on!

The 1176 comp in general has a completely different character than either of those plugs. They're not my go-to plugs, but I've found both RComp and Crunchessor usable in mix situations. I also own a hardware 1176 as well as have the UAD plugs... you might want to try the UAD compressors... some of the best out there. I also like the Sonalksis.

Originally Posted by GMR

So I was wondering are those URS EQ plug-ins just as bad or is it better than the compressor plug-ins? I read good comments about them but I'd like to hear from the guys who actually use real outboard EQ's and has compared them to the plug-ins.

Well... if i dare make a logical leap here... if you're using two good compressor plugs and you claim that they "suck" and your hardware sounds "perfect" then you're probably going to have a very similar reaction to software EQ plugs...

Originally Posted by GMR

Should I start investing for my Great River EQ or Massive Passive now? or do these URS Plug-ins sound half decent. The only half decent EQ I had was in my Voxbox which I sold cuz I didn't love the pre! But I need a good EQ.

Thanks for your help

Sure... rent first.

[juicemaster1500]

Originally Posted by GMR

Less tone! Woolier sound! I'd rather have less options with great sounds "real 1176" than tons of option but crappy sounds "RComp".

Yes, I wouldn't use a ren comp if I wanted the sound of the 1176. That sort of goes without saying.

[cold c]

"These Plug-ins really do suck IMO" and "Something just sounds off" are not very specific descriptions of the problem. (Neither are "Less tone! Woolier sound!" or "patched in my 1176 and it was like Whao all my problems were solved!", please be more specific if you want specific answers.)

If possible, why not post your original sound and the target sound you want to get, so other users can attempt to do so with their own software and then describe the plugins/settings they used for the process? (This is usually what happens at kvr, for example in the recent crunchessor tips thread )

[84K]

Originally Posted by GMR

I work with cubase SX3 on PC.
Well there are 2 that I have (Waves shit) in there and to me on the lead vocal they fock up the sound. So I totally disagree with you 84K. On instrument tracks I use them if I have to but on the lead vocal I can't stand it. I compress going in a bit with my 1176 and at mixdown I need a few Db's of compression also.

Well, in that case you can run it through your outboard and roll with that.


But, the plugs can do the job IF you use them right (and if it was cut well).

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by borau

IMVHO, It's rather the opposite.

me too

[GMR]

Originally Posted by cold c

"These Plug-ins really do suck IMO" and "Something just sounds off" are not very specific descriptions of the problem. (Neither are "Less tone! Woolier sound!" or "patched in my 1176 and it was like Whao all my problems were solved!", please be more specific if you want specific answers.)

crunchessor tips thread )

If you read carefully, I'm not looking for answers for Plug-in compressors, IMO they don't sound as good, they don't give what I want to hear. When I have one patched to my lead vocal, I don't like what I hear! Simple really! Maybe my hearing is more accute to the minor details And I have focked around with them for years!

I think it is self explanatory, as soon as I hook up my 1176 to my lead vocal track, I like what I hear. There is no fussing around for me. the sound I want is there. I won't try to describe them with terms since terms are vague anyway and I use them too loosely sometimes.

Maybe I over exagerate my terms a bit, but I do hear these things, when I use Voxengo on my lead vocal, I hear something that just isn't quite right, maybe it's not as awful as I first said but something is not quite right and to me it just sounds better with real outboard for compressors! I plug it in and voila! That little annoyance that bugged me is gone!


My original questions was "are Plug-in EQ's as bad as these compressors". They have these URS EQ's which have the face of the NEVE and API and the Pultec, do they sound like the original? By the posts by certain posters that I trust their opinion, the answer seems to be close but not quite yet! Might be usable! I use to use the Pultec EQ in my Voxbox which worked before but I didn't like the pre, fortunately I didn't have to go thru the pre to use the EQ but I sold it recently, so should I even consider looking into a Plug-in EQ's or should I just buy outboard and skip fussing around with these plug-ins?

But I'm gonna get both, the URS and either a MP or the great river EQ. Problem solved

Thank you to all who replied with your help and opinions. After all this is all these are, our opinions. What works for one might not work for another

[cold c]

Originally Posted by GMR

If you read carefully, I'm not looking for answers for Plug-in compressors, IMO they don't sound as good, they don't give what I want to hear. When I have one patched to my lead vocal, I don't like what I hear! Simple really!

Yes thankyou I did read carefully, and I think your question is based on an unestablished (false) premise, "Plug-in Compressors really suck! Are EQ's better?" is a little bit like the logic used in the school playground type jibes like "did your mother x after she y" (where both x and y are crude unfounded insults etc.).

Originally Posted by GMR

Maybe my hearing is more accute to the minor details

Yes that is highly probable, but maybe you should post an audio example as I said before of an unprocessed and a hardware processed version of a sound, and allow people here to at least attempt to find you a solution.

Originally Posted by GMR

I won't try to describe them with terms since you don't like that.

?? I asked for a more specific description of the problem, even a hardware sound example of what you want to acheive with software. Other users may be happy to try and solve the problem based on some quite broad statements, if that is the way you prefer to "solve" problems then by all means take their advice. Sorry.

I don't want to insult the people here and their methods for giving advice, but I just thought the problems could be targetted with more diagnostic/ analytical approach to the problem. No problem if you don't want to do that.


Thanks anyway.

[3rd world order]

Originally Posted by KurtR

How about the 1176 plug-in? http://www.uaudio.com/products/digit...pak/index.html

different 1176 but.. i use the free bombfactory 1176 plug-in from time to time when i don't feel like piping something out to my outboard. it's OKAY for levelling out stuff... but i'm not expecting any "tone" from it and i certainly wouldn't BUY it.

I've used the McDSP stuff from time to time.. it's kind of fun because you can make it SMACK & PUMP. but again.. i use it like i'd use an effect pedal... generally in the nastiest way possible.

[84K]

Originally Posted by cold c

Yes thankyou I did read carefully, and I think your question is based on an unestablished (false) premise, "Plug-in Compressors really suck! Are EQ's better?" is a little bit like the logic used in the school playground type jibes like "did your mother x after she y" (where both x and y are crude unfounded insults etc.).



Yes that is highly probable, but maybe you should post an audio example as I said before of an unprocessed and a hardware processed version of a sound, and allow people here to at least attempt to find you a solution.

Great idea.

[max cooper]

I've been getting the feeling that ITB vs OTB summing isn't as important to me as plugin vs hardware compression and EQ. Even the URS EQ's that I have are starting to be used less and less. I'll think 'oh, sounds like I need a little cut at 250 or so, then I won't like it and I'll hunt around a little, then compare with no EQ and there it'll stay. Maybe it's a 'phase' I'm going through (pun partly intended.) I actually have an easier time with what my UAD compressors are doing.

[The MPCist]

My opinion is the exact opposite of yours. I would use a comp but not an eq.

I feel that plugin compressors like Sony Oxford and RVOX actually are better than using plugin EQ's. If it's an EQ, I will go for an outboard 95% of the time. Compressors seem to fare just slightly better than plugin EQ's so I might use an Oxford here and an RVOX there.

If you're knocking off a db or so, it shouldn't matter too much but if it's a sonic coloring I want or massive compression, no plugin will do.

BUT---if you think plug-in compressors realy suck then remember that they both come from the same mutha. If you hate it that much, just go 100% outboard.

[Sofa King]

Originally Posted by GMR

If you read carefully, I'm not looking for answers for Plug-in compressors, IMO they don't sound as good, they don't give what I want to hear. When I , the answer seems to be close but not quite yet! Might be usable!

I think both Waves and URS offer a demo.
If so, give it whirl and decide if they suck for yourself.

best
Sean

[dale116dot7]

Yea, my compressors plug in. They get hot when I do that though. It all started when I got a Distressor.... and then built a G1176... and a tube compressor.... and another.... Need more compressors... more gear.... more gear...

I've found I can tolerate digital EQ (whether plug-ins or in a digital board - it's the same thing) if its used very sparingly, and only active in the low end. But I find it makes the high end sound kind of funny to me. Need analog eq... more gear....

-Dale

[max cooper]

I meant to slap this up here too. It's a great explanation of EQ workings. It always helps me to know how something is doing what it's doing.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/EQPhase.html

[wwittman]

Put me down as another one who finds plug-in EQ TOLERABLE (But not preferable) while plug-in compression is just awful.

I only ever use it as a place-keeper until I replace it with the real thing later.