Help! Weird LA-610 pre issue

[FreshSkweez]

Hey yall,

I ran into a really strange problem at my studio a couple of days ago that has something to do with the pre in my LA-610 (mkI).

While trying to choose the right mic for a guitar part I plugged in AT4033, AT4040, AT4050, and AKG 414 (all in cardioid). For some reason that's beyond my understanding the only one of the bunch I got a decent level on was the 33. The rest of them were A LOT quieter (a 10+db difference) and the 4050 gave me a really wierd signal-to-noise. No pads or filters engaged on mics or elsewhere, eq flat, comp in bypass. Switching input impendance changed the sound as it should and didn't fix the problem.

I did a quick A/B using my board pres - the mics were fine. I got almost identical levels with 4050 being a tad quieter (which is totally consistent with its specified output).

The only thing that comes to mind is that it could be a bizzare phantom power issue (even though 4033 utilizes the same power the rest of them do ) but I'm not tech savvy so any ideas would be appreciated.

Calling all cars.

[drtechno]

have you tried a different cable?

I don't believe in built in phantom power, sometimes it can't deliver the proper current capacity, specially if I'm tracking way over in another room.

get a phantom power box, or if you are in a pinch and have one around, use a monitor board (xlr split type of course)

[FreshSkweez]

Originally Posted by drtechno

have you tried a different cable?

Of course :-)

[FreshSkweez]

Originally Posted by drtechno

have you tried a different cable?

I don't believe in built in phantom power, sometimes it can't deliver the proper current capacity, specially if I'm tracking way over in another room.

get a phantom power box, or if you are in a pinch and have one around, use a monitor board (xlr split type of course)

But if it really is a phantom issue how can 4033 be ok and the rest of them not? I assume their power consumption should be identical... Could I be wrong though?

[statixx]

just thought id chime in though i recently sold my 610 yesterday for a Grand. she will be missed! during the time in which i owned it i also owned both a ksm27 and a ksm32. The 27 did not have any problems with gain staging however the 32s gain output was signifigantly lower then the 27. (probably like 3 or so dbs lower) I just wrote it off to the fact that the 32 was a flat response microphone and didnt think anything of it becuase i didnt have any weird noise issues or anything like that but its just funny to hear another person say that they had a similar problem. Especially given the fact that i had a shure ksm27 and a ksm32 which should only be subtley diffrent and you own all those AT model mics which i would also belive are only suppose to be subtley diffrent from one another. I think that i heard a siginifgant diffrence in my two mics which is not so apparent when i use them with other pres that i own.

[FreshSkweez]

Originally Posted by statixx

just thought id chime in though i recently sold my 610 yesterday for a Grand. she will be missed! during the time in which i owned it i also owned both a ksm27 and a ksm32. The 27 did not have any problems with gain staging however the 32s gain output was signifigantly lower then the 27. (probably like 3 or so dbs lower) I just wrote it off to the fact that the 32 was a flat response microphone and didnt think anything of it becuase i didnt have any weird noise issues or anything like that but its just funny to hear another person say that they had a similar problem. Especially given the fact that i had a shure ksm27 and a ksm32 which should only be subtley diffrent and you own all those AT model mics which i would also belive are only suppose to be subtley diffrent from one another. I think that i heard a siginifgant diffrence in my two mics which is not so apparent when i use them with other pres that i own.

Ok. Now this makes it even more bizzare.

Thanks for the input!

I checked AT specs and 4033 requires 48v, 3mA whereas 4040 requires a bit over 4mA. I mean the difference is so insignificant I doubt this could be an issue. But for the sake of the argument lets say 610 generates enough current for the 4033 but not for the 4040, ksm27 and ksm32 are 5.4 and 4.6mA respectively. If we follow this logic ksm32 should be LOUDER.

Very weird.

Any technical geniuses out there?

[FreshSkweez]

I find it hard to believe that out of all the top-notch pros on this forum who know all ins and outs of their gear there isn't a single one who could offer an educated guess on the subject...

Bb-B-bump

[camus]

Have you tried emailing UA? Let us know when they reply... sounds strange to say the least.

[FreshSkweez]

I just sent them an email. It's Saturday though so let's see what they say next week.

TBC

[FreshSkweez]

In the meantime...

Bump!

[popmann]

Actually, it IS likely a phantom issue. The 4050 I had here breifly wouldn't even work with the LA610. Kinda made a garbled, noise mess. Same with trying to power a SansAmpDI from it's phantom.

I contacted UA. Said it was likely a faltering phantom supply. They volunteered to fix it for free if I'd send it to them. I frankly never had the time I could spare it...and those are the only two examples I've run into where it didn't have enough phantom juice. I don't actually OWN a 4050...and all my condensers it powers just fine. I've got the box still in a closet thinking at some point, I'll spare it long enough to have them fix it. Hopefully, they're still willing. I've now had it in service for years...only two things I've not been able to power with it.

[FreshSkweez]

Originally Posted by popmann

Actually, it IS likely a phantom issue. The 4050 I had here breifly wouldn't even work with the LA610. Kinda made a garbled, noise mess. Same with trying to power a SansAmpDI from it's phantom.

I contacted UA. Said it was likely a faltering phantom supply. They volunteered to fix it for free if I'd send it to them. I frankly never had the time I could spare it...and those are the only two examples I've run into where it didn't have enough phantom juice. I don't actually OWN a 4050...and all my condensers it powers just fine. I've got the box still in a closet thinking at some point, I'll spare it long enough to have them fix it. Hopefully, they're still willing. I've now had it in service for years...only two things I've not been able to power with it.

A-a-alrite! Exactly what I was looking for! Thank you man!
What condenser mics DO you use with the 610 if you don't mind me asking?

[FreshSkweez]

Well I got a response from UA... If you can call it that.

In a nutshel it was: 'Why the hell do we care you get different levels on mics with identical specs? You get a level, right? So the unit's functional. And don't try to compare it to other pres especially solid-state 'cause they're not tube...' (!)

Looks like this is gonna take a while...

[camus]

Originally Posted by FreshSkweez

Well I got a response from UA... If you can call it that.

In a nutshel it was: 'Why the hell do we care you get different levels on mics with identical specs? You get a level, right? So the unit's functional. And don't try to compare it to other pres especially solid-state 'cause they're not tube...' (!)

Looks like this is gonna take a while...

That is just... LAME. And this is coming from a guy that likes their stuff. Ugh.

Isn't there a UA support guy that hangs around here? Maybe he can chime in...

[statixx]

Originally Posted by popmann

Actually, it IS likely a phantom issue. The 4050 I had here breifly wouldn't even work with the LA610. Kinda made a garbled, noise mess. Same with trying to power a SansAmpDI from it's phantom.

I contacted UA. Said it was likely a faltering phantom supply. They volunteered to fix it for free if I'd send it to them. I frankly never had the time I could spare it...and those are the only two examples I've run into where it didn't have enough phantom juice. I don't actually OWN a 4050...and all my condensers it powers just fine. I've got the box still in a closet thinking at some point, I'll spare it long enough to have them fix it. Hopefully, they're still willing. I've now had it in service for years...only two things I've not been able to power with it.

your story sounds like mine. minor problems which didnt out weigh the fact that you loved what it did do for you. the point is there shouldnt be a problem. funny how none of us ua la 610 users reported this problem before and just kept on trucking! especially since we all have had the same problem!!

i loved my la 610 to death while i had it, but reading this thread more and more makes it a little easier for me to part ways with it.

i know someone from UNIVERSAL AUDIO has gotta be in the house???? anyone???? im interested to hear a explaination.

[hazelmossobrien]

I own 2 4050's and a silver face LA-610. I have never had phantom issues.

for what its worth I also used to own a 4040 and a couple 4033's...I don't remember using them with the LA-610, but I'm sure I did, and would remember a problem.

[FreshSkweez]

I invited UA support to participate in this thread and hopefully they'll have something interesting to say.

In the meantime I measured phantom power output of the 610. Stable 48v with no sign of malfunction. I haven't tried to with any of those mics in the chain though (to see if they drain it) due to sheer lack of time between sessions but my U87 was fine for guitar overdubs I was doing all evening.

TBC i guess

[FreshSkweez]

Apparently UA support is MIA

Anybody else wanna share 610 horror stories to attract their attention?

Bump!

[UAsupport]

Originally Posted by FreshSkweez

Well I got a response from UA... If you can call it that.

In a nutshel it was: 'Why the hell do we care you get different levels on mics with identical specs? You get a level, right? So the unit's functional. And don't try to compare it to other pres especially solid-state 'cause they're not tube...' (!)

Looks like this is gonna take a while...

WOW!! FreshSkweez!?... I am so sorry if you misunderstood my replies to you! And to everyone... UA Support's only goal is to try and resolve problems and help out our users...

Regarding this problem - I looked at the email history for your email support request:

The first reply I sent did say that different mics will have different gain characteristics and so they may require different gain levels on the preamp... also the solid state preamps used as a comparison would differ from the tube preamp in the LA610 and so would not be a direct 'Apples vs Apples' comparison.

The second email I sent specifically mentioned that phantom power could be a possible source for the problem...(quote):
This could be a problem with the Phantom power. What is the serial number for this LA-610 mk i ?
If this is a phantom power issue then we can service it ( I noted you have US address in your account ). How long have you owned the product? If it's been under a year then we can cover this under the one year warranty. If it's more than one year then we can service it at $75 an hour plus any parts.
( email sent November 16 2009, 03:23 PM )


I have not heard back from you regarding any of my questions?? Again gain could DEFINITELY be affected by a faulty phantom power circuit in the LA610 ( I would assume all these mics would have different phantom pwr requirements and sensitivities ). If the product is in warranty ( one year ) then we can certainly get it in to be checked out.



Please reply to the email we sent you or call us directly ( in the USA it's a toll free call ) and we can get this sorted out for you asap.


Universal Audio Customer Support
Monday through Friday, 9am to 5pm PST

Telephone Support
USA: 877-MY-UAUDIO [877-698-2834]
International: +1-831-440-1176


Regards,

Dan Becker

Customer Service
Universal Audio
Universal Audio | Analog and Digital Audio Products and Plug-Ins

[FreshSkweez]

Hey man,

I'm sorry if the post you quoted offended you. Obviously no offense intended.

It's just that I was expecting a more detailed technical response and the first one I got from you was sort of a 'get-to-know-you' one to see if I'm a newbie... which is totally understandable but again not what I was expecting.

The truth is I am extremely fortunate (considering the tough times we live in) to own/work in a facility that's booked 12 hours a day. A piece of gear craps out - I call my techs that very day 'cause neither I nor my other engineers wanna be stuck in a situation where they need it to get a sound but can't use it 'cause it's malfunctioning.

I happen to love LA-610 for a lot of things. I'm actually one of your most die-hard fans. Now, when I can't get it to work with some of my favorite mics I question what could be wrong. Silly things like bad cabling aside, from a logical standpoint it could be two things - output/input impendence (incompatibility) or insufficient phantom power (malfunction).

In all fairness I asked you whether this is a known issue and judging by this thread it is. I was the one who suggested a faulty phantom power supply (in my 2nd email) and you confirmed it could be. And I was the one to research each of those mics' power consumption specs to see if a faulty power supply causing this kind of issue actually makes sense. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that. Again I'm sorry if this sounds offensive in any way but you can't disagree with the logic.

I've been using this unit since 2005, so no warranty. It'd be easier for me to deal with it locally both time-frame-wise and financially. I was just hoping you'd point me in the right direction so I could give my techs a heads-up.

Thank you for joining the thread though. Hopefully whatever it yields my fellow LA610 users can take advantage of the info in the future. I really appreciate your attention to the problem.

Best,

Alex

P.S. The funny thing is my tech guy just called me. The phantom power supply is fine. They have no clue as to what it could be