Most Reliable Live Setup for Backup Tracks

[a zombie]

My band is almost finished with our first CD, we've put a ton of energy into making it sound really big, and we want our release party show to be equally awesome. Until now we have never used any backing tracks in our set. but in order to do our recordings any justice we need to find a way to cover the more basic repetitious parts of our songs to free us up to play the more exciting lead/rythym parts. Our music is rich with synths and very groove based with live acoustic/simmons drums and an 80's influence.

So basically i am wondering what the most reliable, and flexible system there is for using backup tracks is. It needs to be solid and of fairly good sound quality.

So far i have thought of using a tascam portastudio 4-track cassette deck with a FOH mix on 2 channels and a Click/monitor channel for the drummers in ear monitors. this seems like it would be very reliable but not very flexible.

I have also considered using a laptop but im nervous about the reliability and im not sure if there would really be any added flexability if we messed up a change etc.

any ideas on what might work the best?

[a zombie]

nothing?

[Geetarpicker]

This isn't very high tech, but I sometimes use backing tracks on an IPOD to "perform" at Guitar Clinics.

I have my backing tracks stored as 16 bit WAV files in an IPOD Nano, the one prior to the current model is the one I'm familiar with. These units will work with straight wav files which seem to net a little better quality than the mp3s. Then using Itunes you configure each song to be in it's own "playlist", that way when each song plays the unit stops instead of going to the next tune on it's own. It's a little fiddly to use, but OK once you get the hang of what you need to press to go back to the menu to call up the next playlist. I have two tracks, the click/count off track running to my inner ear mixer, and the "backing tracks" in mono. On the click side I have a quick verbal cue of what song it is right before the count off just so that if I hear the wrong tune announced I have enough time to kill it before it starts. The only issue I have is if the units is in standby too long it goes into a sort of sleep mode, and makes a slight audible click once it wakes up. But usually that's only if you wait a while. I use the NANO versions as they have solid state drives and no moving parts. I keep a second Nano as a backup. I made a bracket the holds the unit at waist height, plus I use an adapter on the bottom which gives a mini 1/8" stereo line out so that the level is fixed and consistent. I think using the regular headphone out would be to easy to bump the volume settings, so the adapter works to access the line out. The separation in the unit's audio is fine and there is no bleed of the click track side to the "tracks" side that goes to the PA.

There are better ways I'm sure, but this might be the most cost effective. Folks might know better which IPODS actually have better converters, and it's probably not the NANOs. That said I wanted to stay away from a hard drive based unit.

I hope that gives you some ideas. The limitation is only 1 track for your "tracks". I almost prefer it that way, as it gives the sound guy less to deal with.

GK

[RiF]

We used a Yamaha MD4s 4-track minidisc recorder to play backing tracks through tracks 1+2 and used track 3 for a click track to the drummer's headphones as well. Perfect setup. Easy access to the tracks, track naming, big transport knobs which can be operated by our drummer.

[gurubuzz]

Cassette tape
iPod
A band

in that order

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by a zombie

My band is almost finished with our first CD, we've put a ton of energy into making it sound really big, and we want our release party show to be equally awesome. Until now we have never used any backing tracks in our set. but in order to do our recordings any justice we need to find a way to cover the more basic repetitious parts of our songs to free us up to play the more exciting lead/rythym parts. Our music is rich with synths and very groove based with live acoustic/simmons drums and an 80's influence.

So basically i am wondering what the most reliable, and flexible system there is for using backup tracks is. It needs to be solid and of fairly good sound quality.

So far i have thought of using a tascam portastudio 4-track cassette deck with a FOH mix on 2 channels and a Click/monitor channel for the drummers in ear monitors. this seems like it would be very reliable but not very flexible.

I have also considered using a laptop but im nervous about the reliability and im not sure if there would really be any added flexability if we messed up a change etc.

any ideas on what might work the best?

Your music sounds like fun can we have a demo to listen to ???? please ???

[a zombie]

Originally Posted by gurubuzz

Your music sounds like fun can we have a demo to listen to ???? please ???

Hah thanks!

definetly!

The Tempers Music - official website of The Tempers

The Tempers on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

[a zombie]

Originally Posted by gurubuzz

Cassette tape
iPod
A band

in that order

so then for me it sounds like band+cassette tape is the winner

[gurubuzz]

Really, a laptop with an uncluttered OS will do the job fine, lots of international DJs rely solely on their Laptops for their whole set.

The days of crashing PC's and embarrassing dead sound of no music are almost history.

Check out a band call Amorphous Androgynous... They had three laptops on stage and Gary Lucas on guitar.

[a zombie]

I might do that eventually but new mac books are more than i can afford right now, plus i would need a 4 channell D/A

[Never1]

My band has a laptop with a digi 003 in a rack, and a cheap assed 6 or 8 channel behringer mixer.

Here's the layout:

-The backing tracks (piano, percussion, sound efx) are stereo out of 1-2. This goes to the FOH, via DIs

- The click track (out 3-4) goes to a pair of channels on the behringer mixer, which sits beside our drummer, next to the laptop/protools rig which he operates.

- the tracks also go to another pair of chanels on the mixer.

- The FOH or monitor guy (depending on the size of the venue) sends a monitor mix to a channel or two (mono or stereo) of the little mixer

-Our drummer has "in ears" and can blend the click, the tracks and the band monitor mix to his liking

- the click track has an accented count off for him, that he uses to count us off.

e.g. he gets a 1-2-THREE-FOUR and then counts us in. Count 3 and 4 are pitch shifted higher just incase he brain farts on the count while we're live. The beep beep BEEP BEEP is his cue.)

We're on a Macbook and the tracks session is on the internal drive. 100+ shows and no issues, so far. We DO have the session on a couple of thumb drives on our various Key chains, just in case, though.

[gurubuzz]

Originally Posted by a zombie

I might do that eventually but new mac books are more than i can afford right now, plus i would need a 4 channell D/A

The M-audio Fast Track Pro has 4 outs

[nadumr]

Ableton Live features a click that runs independently... set up your samples on as many tracks as you wish and separate them into sections of the song. If you miss a cue or get off the click or just want to vamp and jam, you can kill your tracks and then trigger the next section at your will. when you trigger a scene, everything comes in on the downbeat of the next bar, so you're always perfectly in time. I am currently MD for a major label artist and we use pro tools per the production manager's preferences, but it's incredibly rigid for when we want to improvise or change things up from night to night. I much much prefer Ableton Live.

[a zombie]

Originally Posted by nadumr

Ableton Live features a click that runs independently... set up your samples on as many tracks as you wish and separate them into sections of the song. If you miss a cue or get off the click or just want to vamp and jam, you can kill your tracks and then trigger the next section at your will. when you trigger a scene, everything comes in on the downbeat of the next bar, so you're always perfectly in time. I am currently MD for a major label artist and we use pro tools per the production manager's preferences, but it's incredibly rigid for when we want to improvise or change things up from night to night. I much much prefer Ableton Live.

could these commands be triggered by a set of midi drum pads so that the drummer wouldn't have to stop and press a button?

[morchid]

Originally Posted by nadumr

Ableton Live features a click that runs independently... set up your samples on as many tracks as you wish and separate them into sections of the song. If you miss a cue or get off the click or just want to vamp and jam, you can kill your tracks and then trigger the next section at your will. when you trigger a scene, everything comes in on the downbeat of the next bar, so you're always perfectly in time. I am currently MD for a major label artist and we use pro tools per the production manager's preferences, but it's incredibly rigid for when we want to improvise or change things up from night to night. I much much prefer Ableton Live.

+1 ableton is the most flexible software for live use i've ever encountered. and yes you can setup a drum pad via midi to trigger virtually any parameter in live. we have a click and some backing going out to the drummer and just the backing going out to the mains. works out well.

[gurubuzz]

Hey Man, I dig your Myspace tracks.



If you ever want someone to do a remix it I'd love to have a go. I can hear a space that it could go to. A very strange place.

[a zombie]

Thanks man, when we release our album its gonna blow those tracks away!

[Elevteros]

A couple of years ago I did on keyboard with my soprano partner and a guitarist over 20 gigs with a 75 minute multimedia show using 8 backing tracks in Logic 8, while playing some virtual instruments along with the tracks (B4, Miroslav, Arturia Mini, Garritan piano, Kontakt player, ESX24 - with Logic latency at 64) and streaming from an external HD a Quicktime movie synchronized in Logic on a well maintained and lean 17" Macbook Pro 2.16 (7200 rpm HD).
As the whole show was synchronized, all the plug-ins and tracks mutes, levels, etc were properly automated so as not to tax the CPU unecessarily.
EQs, mix fine tuning and effects were handled on my live mixer.

Daring, I know, but did not have a single problem!

[nadumr]

For the life of me, for a project that is starting from scratch, I can't ever imagine building a performance that can't be stopped once it's started. Ableton Live is just so flexible and programmable.

[a zombie]

Daring, I know, but did not have a single problem!

I would be nervous as hell, I've just lost so many awesome things because of computer crashes. It's a love hate relationship.

[Elevteros]

Originally Posted by a zombie

I would be nervous as hell, I've just lost so many awesome things because of computer crashes. It's a love hate relationship.

As I said, "daring"...
The fact is I have not lost a thing on any of my Macs since the late 90s!

[Kyle S]

i would say an HD24 with all the tracks printed onto it and a click track on one of the tracks. 24 tracks to use and you can still slow down/speed up the song if you want per show.

ive never used midi on one before but if not then youd have to press play and select each song. you might be able to automate all of that with midi, i dunno.

[a zombie]

Originally Posted by Elevteros

As I said, "daring"...
The fact is I have not lost a thing on any of my Macs since the late 90s!

Lucky!

[andychamp]

Lots of mileage on a Roland VS here.

[Dr Roundmenge]

+1 on the V-Studio - Horrible to work with and setup - but once locked in - the most reliable solution for live backing tracks I know of.

Also having each of the songs on their own individual buttons is a huge advantage - you can change the set at whim and no problem.

and finally physically S.O.L.I.D.

Its the Hummer of backing track setups - I've used one unit for 10 years in hideous conditions - failed - twice (as in needed reboot) I would say over 1000 shows in that time.

[dingbass]

the setup:
Windows laptop
M-audio firewire 410 (could use a fast track pro)
Winamp

I mix my backing track down to a 5.1 file stereo backing tracks R+L and the click on the centre track.
Pros:
The nice thing about this setup is that it is really stable and i can run the TRS outputs of the 410 straight to XLR's so we don't require di's. Also, there are an additional three tracks for running other backing items. I.E. can have two tracks of keys, a track of vocals, two tracks of guitar and the click (or any other variation of this) all in one file that just plays like a jukebox. Additionally, winamp can play 24/96 files so there is no quality loss.

Cons:
there is a lot of crap to carry and set up. While the system has worked flawlessly i am looking for a system that is more compact.

I had originally attempted to set this up on an old Mac Powerbook i had but was unable to find a program that would play 5.1 wav or 5.1 windows media files so i traded the mac for a nice thinkpad that works brilliantly.

[dingbass]

Originally Posted by nadumr

Ableton Live features a click that runs independently... set up your samples on as many tracks as you wish and separate them into sections of the song. If you miss a cue or get off the click or just want to vamp and jam, you can kill your tracks and then trigger the next section at your will. when you trigger a scene, everything comes in on the downbeat of the next bar, so you're always perfectly in time. I am currently MD for a major label artist and we use pro tools per the production manager's preferences, but it's incredibly rigid for when we want to improvise or change things up from night to night. I much much prefer Ableton Live.

When using ableton how do you switch from track to track? do you need to open a new project for every different tune or is there antother way? i've never used ableton.
thanks

[Farm sounds]

Alesis HD24 is solid. 24 tracks.

[nadumr]

Originally Posted by dingbass

When using ableton how do you switch from track to track? do you need to open a new project for every different tune or is there antother way? i've never used ableton.
thanks

the best way might be to load them all into one project