syncing seqs/arps "to" the drummer?

[brutze]

Anyone ever tried to syncing seqs/arps "to" the drummer live?

At the moment I'm battling with various options. I have a Kurzweil Expressionmate with tap tempo. It can also reputedly take trigger from a drum trigger.

Has anyone ever done this or used software like "intime" or any other methods?
I'm beginning to think click track is the way to go, but my soul tells me as always that click tracks are the work of the devil.:-)

Any thoughts?

[MarvinDog]

Originally Posted by brutze

... click tracks are the work of the devil.:-)

You're playing Rock 'n Roll-- you've already sold your soul to the devil. Time to fire up the click!

[brutze]

Originally Posted by MarvinDog

You're playing Rock 'n Roll-- you've already sold your soul to the devil. Time to fire up the click!

Are you the devil by any chance? Any chance to negotiate on the click track?

[synthoid]

It's worth going through each sound you want to trigger and to consider carefully what it needs at a minimum. Often you can arrange that every sound takes care of its own internal timing, free from MIDI clock and other external time references. For example, if there's a delay on a sound, you could set the delay interval in milliseconds, to make it independent of tempo. Then the only problem is to trigger the whole sound at the right moment on stage, i.e., to "play" it. Anyone on stage can do that: drummer, kbd player, etc. Someone just has to send the thing a MIDI note(s) at the right moment.

This won't work if the drummer gets too far off from the original tempo of course. But assuming that the drummer sets and holds the original tempo reasonably well, this is often more than good enough, and it makes it a lot easier to coordinate gear.

The sounds that are really tough to deal with are the ones that for some reason want to understand the actual bar/beat structure via MIDI clock. If you try to drive the MIDI clock from a drummer, you will end up with lots of glitches and bad stuff I think. In that case it's better to use a click so that the MIDI clock has a steady reference.

-synthoid

[hilander74]

I think just use a click if you're usings arp sequences.
Nothing worse than an arp sequence that isn't bang in time imho.
A decent drummer can still play around the click and add his own groove.

[brutze]

Thanks.
I'm still hoping to have the Keyboard player tap tempo in by hand just before the arpeggios start. I think drummers are happier without clicks to be honest.
Happy Drummer=Much better show.

I like the push and pull of live timing. But I also like Arpeggiators.
I'm doomed to burn I think.

Greets

[hilander74]

What's the arp sequence coming off? Programmed sequences or a synth?
Maybe you could add a little groove quantize to the arp and feed the drummer the arp audio instead of a click.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by brutze

Thanks.
I'm still hoping to have the Keyboard player tap tempo in by hand just before the arpeggios start. I think drummers are happier without clicks to be honest.

totally depends on the drummer. Most drummers used to playing with backing tracks much prefer having clicks - they can't get shouted at for going at the wrong tempo then!

[ludvista29]

I'm a drummer, and I would totally go for the click. If I ever have to run backing tracks, I would totally use a click. Also, this makes your shows a lot more consistent. If you really want everyone to be tight, set it up for the whole band.

[brutze]

Originally Posted by hilander74

I think just use a click if you're usings arp sequences.
Nothing worse than an arp sequence that isn't bang in time imho.
A decent drummer can still play around the click and add his own groove.

Hi. Posted at the same time.

You're probably right. Although in this case my arps are 24th note triplets and a bit mad.
So some randomness might be ok.
We shall see.

[juniorhifikit]

Beat Detective (in Protools - sorry haters) will generate a very accurate tempo map so you're midi toys can follow a squirrelly drummer, without changing his squirrelly performance.

[echoclerk]

Its not too hard to map the Tempo track of Cubase to the drummers timing to giv eyou midi that is in sync with the Audio.

but thats in the studio. not live.

[juniorhifikit]

Originally Posted by echoclerk

Its not too hard to map the Tempo track of Cubase to the drummers timing to giv eyou midi that is in sync with the Audio.

but thats in the studio. not live.

oops, we were talking live, as in, on stage? My bad

tap tempo in Ableton Live has worked for me on stage...

[brutze]

Hi
Yes I have to investigate LIVE anyway. They have their HQ 200m from my front door.

I'm going to be using a receptor live it has its own tempo control that can be controlled from any external source. So I just need to find the best tap function. Controller keyboard. Expressionmate. LIVE. Akai...who knows.
If none of this works its click tracks of satan for me

[drBill]

Originally Posted by juniorhifikit

oops, we were talking live, as in, on stage?

I have an old box from Aphex that proported to do exactly that - midi followed transients (like kick or snare). Never used it. Sitting in the garage. I'd sell it for $25.

Anybody want to experiment??

[brutze]

Its got to be worth $25.
I'm game. Although its going to cost more to post it and get it through customs than $25.

Is it called the Aphex "impulse"? Which model?

B

[brutze]

I recently bought a Kurweil expressionmate from the states and the import guys really terrorised me. Open it! What is it? what's it for? etc. 2nd hand out of date piece of kit and they charged me %19 plus a handling fee. Sick.

I was so glad that the thing works. Killer creative device actually.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by brutze

Its got to be worth $25.
I'm game. Although its going to cost more to post it and get it through customs than $25.

Is it called the Aphex "impulse"? Which model?

B

\

Aphex "Studio Clock". Never ended up using it. Designed to sync midi to drummers on tape or live from what I can remember. Seemed complicated to me.

[brutze]

sorry about the wait.
Do you have a manual for that thing? I can't find one online.

At the moment I've got two pssibilities in my posession

A ploytech 34One mk2 pedal (tap tempo midi clock)
and the Kurzweil expression mate.

We'll see.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by brutze

sorry about the wait.
Do you have a manual for that thing? I can't find one online.

Yeah, I think so.