Real Drums!

[musicbydesign]

I was all set to get a Roland Electronic kit but many drummers dislike them.
One even asked me if I would like to play a rubber guitar......hmmm.

Also those drum replacement packages are way too processed sounding to me.


Real drums can be nice sounding and Im asking you for advice on
what to purchase (5 piece kit that doesn't cost too much) and tips
on tuning and recording them.

Thanks, Daniel

Style: Usually Rock
Room Size: 10X12
Treated: Mostly

[Darm]

there you go
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/drums/

[vijsolo]

Check out this deal for Ludwig

Ludwig Pinnacle 5-Piece Drum Kit

Killer price!!


cheerz!!

[musicbydesign]

Originally Posted by vijsolo

Check out this deal for Ludwig

Ludwig Pinnacle 5-Piece Drum Kit

Killer price!!


cheerz!!

Looks nice, I will check it out. Since most complete kits come with usless
cymbals, I might build one from buying some individual parts. I know it will
cost more but it should be nice. Thanks Man.

Daniel

[Slikjmuzik]

In my experience, you can get great sounds from even inexpensive kits. I've seen, and heard, Tama Rockstars and Pearl Visions sound wonderful in, believe it or not, small bedrooms, with proper use of mic technique. I personally feel that a nice drummer who can play a kit appropriately to the song will get you sounds that are much nicer to use on a song than any synthetic kit. I've really only heard midi drumkits work really well in a church environment to be honest. I'm sure some guys out there love their Rolands and can make them sound amazing with their Oceanway Drums, but for the money you'll spend on that kit, as well as the Oceanway samples, you could really get a nice kit and nice mics. I tend to use a lot of mics placed for safety and then mute later if they're not necessary, but I also have an Aurora Lynx16 and pretty decent preamps by way of SSL, Focusrite, Vintech & TL-Audio. I use an AEA R92 as a single overhead along with 2 LDC mics for room mics and a plethora of other mics for the kit depending on the situation. I prefer the real player, although he must be decent, to the midi deal...but that's just me.

You can make either situation work if you really wanted it to, but without the experience to have a preference, out advice doesn't do you much good.

Best wishes my friend.

[rockstar_josh]

Look at PDP or Gretsch, they make some decent mid-range kits that will give great results with good heads & tuning.

Otherwise, shop used! I know you're in a small market, though... you may need to go to Dallas or Shreveport

[bockoclock]

+ 1 for Gretsch, best bang-for-your-buck.

[beanface]

+2 on Gretsch. You cant beat a well tuned kit in a good room. Beautiful.

[Jeff Braun]

I've built a few kits before. They sound great. If you're a first time builder I recommend having your bearing edges cut by a pro. Buy the same parts as SJC, OCDP, Shine, etc, and get it for half the cost. Here's some good links:

https://www.drumfoundry.com/Default.aspx?

GhostNote.net

-Jeff Braun

[cdog]

For off the shelf stuff the Yamaha Recording Custom is nice, solid.

Recording Custom

You could spend a fortune on drums, but you dont have to. It might be better to have 3-4 different sounding, funky old $600 kits than a really nice $2500 one.

[macr0w]

Used is the way to go in my opinion.

Look on your local Craigslist.

[Croaker]

go used and go for higher quality.
I scored on used too. I got a used Premier Signia 7 piece kit with 3 snares, 10 sweet zildjian cymbals, heavy duty stands and nice padded cases for 2 grand. The guy must of had it in his closet for years, there wasn't a nick on it. I was shocked when I received it.

As far as recording them goes that is gonna take a lot of practice. The room is going to dictate a lot of things. Do some research. Start with minimal micing and see what kind of sound you can get. There is a ton of information to be found on recording drums.
Make sure to use new heads and learn how to tune them. makes a huge difference. It is good to have a few different snares too.
good luck

[musicbydesign]

Thanks for the help guys, all of you. I know everyone really respects
real drums the most. Ive got plenty of samples for the non-rock songs
but certain songs beg for real drums and really sound best with them.

Thanks again!

Daniel

[leebridges]

you're recording drums in a 10x12 room? is the ceiling 8ft high? i wouldn't think any drums would sound good in a room that size....too many reflections.

[musicbydesign]

Originally Posted by leebridges

you're recording drums in a 10x12 room? is the ceiling 8ft high? i wouldn't think any drums would sound good in a room that size....too many reflections.

Yeh, I know it seems bad. The room has some treatment and the ceiling is 9ft. If I do this I will be getting more treatment to tame the room more.


Daniel

[vitreouswindows]

One frugal way to go is to purchase high quality drums (and/or vintage drums) that may have had a thing or two altered - this affects their perceived value (especially in the vintage market) but not how they perform musically. Cosmetics too can diminish a kit's value (mis-matched finishes, etc.) but not how it sounds. Make sure the bearing edges are good and that the drums are not out of round, that the lugs all function correctly, and then it's just about head selection and tuning.

Old-school heads/tuning would find Remo Ambassadors on tom (typically coated) and clear Diplomats on the bottom (for a heavier sound - coated Emperors on top and clear Ambassadors on the bottom) - but there are a plethora of options with heads. Tuning you might begin with tuning them appx. an interval of a third apart - the top head lower; or tune them about the same. Again, there are a host of tuning techniques that all work differently, though exploring them is often tedious for a non-drummer. Most drums have a range they enjoy - ie. too tight and they choke, too loose and they're drab - but with a little experimentation you'll find each drum's zone.

One of the better 'deals' on older kits would be Slingerland drums from the 70s - these were really well-made drums, but they're often not expensive on the used market. Gretsch can get expensive, as can Rogers, though they're often very nice kits (Gretsch round badge kits are pricey, and Rogers kits made in Dayton in the mid-to-late 60s are some of their nicest and not always priced much differently than other periods). Many of the Ludwigs after the 'Beatle boom' suffered from quality issues, but by the late-60s they were nice indeed (when Ludwig was sold to Selmer in the 80s there was a not-so-great stretch, but they rectified that and many of the current drums are excellent). There are many small makers that make fine drums as well, so many so that the choices make it complex to make a decision. Everything makes a difference, but head selection, tuning and the player have much to do with how a kit sounds; and for recording, the room plays a significant role in how it translates.

Best of luck with your search, and I'd encourage you to stay on the pathway of acoustic drums.

[musicbydesign]

Originally Posted by vitreouswindows

One frugal way to go is to purchase high quality drums (and/or vintage drums) that may have had a thing or two altered - this affects their perceived value (especially in the vintage market) but not how they perform musically. Cosmetics too can diminish a kit's value (mis-matched finishes, etc.) but not how it sounds. Make sure the bearing edges are good and that the drums are not out of round, that the lugs all function correctly, and then it's just about head selection and tuning.

Old-school heads/tuning would find Remo Ambassadors on tom (typically coated) and clear Diplomats on the bottom (for a heavier sound - coated Emperors on top and clear Ambassadors on the bottom) - but there are a plethora of options with heads. Tuning you might begin with tuning them appx. an interval of a third apart - the top head lower; or tune them about the same. Again, there are a host of tuning techniques that all work differently, though exploring them is often tedious for a non-drummer. Most drums have a range they enjoy - ie. too tight and they choke, too loose and they're drab - but with a little experimentation you'll find each drum's zone.

One of the better 'deals' on older kits would be Slingerland drums from the 70s - these were really well-made drums, but they're often not expensive on the used market. Gretsch can get expensive, as can Rogers, though they're often very nice kits (Gretsch round badge kits are pricey, and Rogers kits made in Dayton in the mid-to-late 60s are some of their nicest and not always priced much differently than other periods). Many of the Ludwigs after the 'Beatle boom' suffered from quality issues, but by the late-60s they were nice indeed (when Ludwig was sold to Selmer in the 80s there was a not-so-great stretch, but they rectified that and many of the current drums are excellent). There are many small makers that make fine drums as well, so many so that the choices make it complex to make a decision. Everything makes a difference, but head selection, tuning and the player have much to do with how a kit sounds; and for recording, the room plays a significant role in how it translates.

Best of luck with your search, and I'd encourage you to stay on the pathway of acoustic drums.

Good Info! Ive looked at alot of new kits but I might look for a 60's or 70's kit. Like you said, its so hard to decide there's so many options. Thanks again.

Daniel

[biggator6]

Go over to drumforum.org - introduce yourself... tell the guys you want a good kit for recording. You'll find one - cheap.

Old Ludwig, Premier, Rogers, Gretsch.. get an ugly kit (as mentioned above) - something that has little collectible value but sounds great.

I picked up my main kit (Premier Signias) for about $500.. a STEAL for a kit that was over $3k new.. grabbed a few snares (you can get those cheap, too.. an ugly supraphonic or acrolite.. winner!) and good cymbals, and voila.

[musicbydesign]

I will check that out

Anyone heard of Custom Classic Drums?

Sigler Music | Custom Classic Pro Birch 5 Piece Drum Set - Sigler Music Center

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Originally Posted by musicbydesign

I was all set to get a Roland Electronic kit but many drummers dislike them.
One even asked me if I would like to play a rubber guitar......hmmm.

Also those drum replacement packages are way too processed sounding to me.


Real drums can be nice sounding and Im asking you for advice on
what to purchase (5 piece kit that doesn't cost too much) and tips
on tuning and recording them.

Thanks, Daniel

Style: Usually Rock
Room Size: 10X12
Treated: Mostly

One suggestion, if you go used, DO NOT worry about the nicks and chips and stuff. Look at the hardware to make sure it is still in good shape (make sure the hoops/rims aren't warped, make sure the lugs aren't all rusted, etc).

The owner of the studio I worked at just bought a 7 piece Premier Signia kit. It was all banged up from being on tour for years so the owner got it at a pretty good discount, but when we set it up it sounded amazing!!!!

Come to find out... this drumset is the second Signia kit ever made, and was on tour with Paul McCartney for 12 years, was used on John Paul Jones and Jimmy Pages solo albums, was on tour with Ray Charles for several years.

And, in the end, you can't really hear the scratches and nicks in the paint when recording the drumset anyway... :-)

[opegas]

I definitely agree to go get a used set. Scratches and dings and stuff are fine, if you think they are really bad be sure to check if there are cracks in the shells. Remember all those crazy musicians that kick over or dive into the drums.

[musicbydesign]

Thanks guys, yep there's something about an older kit that can just sound way nice.
I guess because its like burning in speakers. When they are new they are tight
and harder sounding, when broken in they are smooth....


Daniel

[rk.]

I think the Tama Superstar kits are very good in the mid-low end price bracket. Or if you could get a second hand Starclassic kit that is even better.

[steelyfan]

Look into a used Camco set. Camco's are just legendary in recordings history, used alot in the 70's on a monsterfull of classic albulms. A divine sound, aged liked smoked whiskey. They're vintage and have alot of style and are the pinnacle of a boutique drum set (this IS GS ). Deals come around.

I had a set, and when I would talk to other drummers in casual conversation about drums, and they found out I had some Camcos,
they would get this dreamy look in their face. LOL! ....almost uncomfortable actually. A nastalga thing, and era .

I play a Fibes kit now, custom made for me in Austin tx. They're beautiful sounding drums, and are less known than alot of the big names. They're in ALOT of Tx. studio's. I like the obscurity of'em. Something different.

Steely

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by musicbydesign

I was all set to get a Roland Electronic kit but many drummers dislike them.
One even asked me if I would like to play a rubber guitar......hmmm.

Also those drum replacement packages are way too processed sounding to me.


Real drums can be nice sounding and Im asking you for advice on
what to purchase (5 piece kit that doesn't cost too much) and tips
on tuning and recording them.

Thanks, Daniel

Style: Usually Rock
Room Size: 10X12
Treated: Mostly

I've always had drummers put together kits for me. Most great drummers are gear hounds, and their wives are always trying to get them to unload all the spare kits that are junking up their house. I had John Ferarro set me up, and he put together a kit of old Gretch maple drums, mounted the toms on rims, and tossed in a mismatched set of cymbals that just sound great. He put on the right heads, and gave it all a tuneup, and it sounds fantastic.

-R