Jay Maas
#31
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #31
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

haha yeah man, low overhead and knowing what to do with your tools = staying in business.
Alexi
Thread Starter
#32
9th November 2010
Old 9th November 2010
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,247

Thread Starter
Hey Jay,

thanks for the superquick answer. How long have you been using the Rooster for guitars?
I checked out the new Bane record as well, sounds incredible.
Theres something about your guitar mixing i really like, the guitars always have a very nice texture to them...do you use any kind of reverbs on the guitars when mixing (or a subtle delay)?

I have thought about that before, when i heard the last verse record...


so great that you share all your knowledge


cheers
#33
10th November 2010
Old 10th November 2010
  #33
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

I've had the rooster since last Feb which means it wasn't actually on either the Bane or the Verse records.

I think most of the texture you're speaking of is honestly good mic placement, no phase issues, and most importantly good tone / players / song writing.

The verse record came out well because those guys wrote great songs that were arranged really well. Same thing goes for Bane actually. Both of those bands were really open to me taking a little bit of a production role as well, I feel the "map" of the song if you will or the construction of what is playing when has just as much to do with placing things in the mix as notching out freq's in the eq does. Come to think of it, I think it has way more to do with it than notching eq haha.

Delay on guitars for me only happens with leads / cleans, if i want that effect for the heavy stuff I start doubling. Of course that can be a slippery slope, so it's always best to consider if the part needs it and why.

There is def a bit of CSR reverb on the bane guitars though. I don't have anything I do every time in all honesty I probably thought.. "I wonder if it would be cool to put reverb on these guitars" and presto it lived there.
Alexi
Thread Starter
#34
20th November 2010
Old 20th November 2010
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Alexi's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,247

Thread Starter
Are you still mixing on your JBL monitors? Are you still happy with them?
Whats the name of these monitors again? What do you use as a 2nd reference?

greetings
#35
20th November 2010
Old 20th November 2010
  #35
Taking Down your Network
 
Boschen's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Library of Babel
Posts: 1,718

Awesome thread.

Jay, thanks for sharing details.
Best of luck with your projects.
#36
23rd November 2010
Old 23rd November 2010
  #36
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

Yeah still using JBL 4328's. I'm still happy with them, there are def better monitors out there but I've got my head wrapped around these pretty well so for now / probably a while these will be the guys.

I don't have any 2nd referencing at the moment. I've had it in the past and personally didn't find it enormously beneficial.

I'd love to try out some other things, focals / high end adams maybe though. It's funny how sometimes you'll stumble into something that is a game changer.
#37
21st January 2011
Old 21st January 2011
  #37
Gear interested
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1

So stokedd i found this thread...

Jay,

I'd been admiring your work for quite some time... First, when I hung out with some dudes in a band that was recording with you over this past summer. The band, His Day As Come, are good friends of mine and I love how their EP they did with you came out.

I know the kids in His Day Has Come took pride in their own amps, and I was wondering if that's what you used on the recording. I love the guitar sound you got on that EP and was wondering how you got that.

Did you use their amps, or something you have at your place?
Do you remember any specifics about the mics/mic placement you used?
Any delay, reverb, or double tracking???

I'd love to know exactly how the sounds were created if you wanna go into it.
#38
4th March 2011
Old 4th March 2011
  #38
Gear interested
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 25

Hey Jay,
I know you´re busy touring at the moment. Saw you guys @ Hamburg a few days ago. Great show and by the way I love the new record. Received the vinyl yesterday ;-)

I´m realy interesed in your snaresound and maybe we can talk a little bit about that?!

In some posts before you mentioned that you only use samples very very slightly in straight parts of the songs. So what kind of procressing ( NY-Comp. Layering etc. ) you make to archiv an open but thight snaresound.

And by the way......Andy is a absolute pro drummer. Hi has some realy delicious grooves and fills on the new record.

Wish you guys all the best.
#39
4th March 2011
Old 4th March 2011
  #39
Lives for gear
 
fastlanestoner's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,743

Never heard of this guy until now. Anyone who's this passionate about this field is a-ok in my book!

Gonna go check out some of your records now, Jay.

Cheers, and thanks for being so informative!
#40
14th March 2011
Old 14th March 2011
  #40
Gear interested
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 25

Hey fellas,
anybody who want do discuss the snaresound on the Defeater record?

What do you guys think about the signal chain?! Jay says that he uses the 421 on top and only compresses a little this one. That`s realy all? So makes the Distressor this punchy sound?
No layering, group fx, ny-comp. etc.?
#41
30th March 2011
Old 30th March 2011
  #41
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

Hey sorry for the delay on the replies!

Ok so the His Day Has Come thing was just a great project. I don't know if it's because they are from the mid west and have manners or what, but they put a lot of trust into me and that helped a ton. A lot of times the pushing and pulling over sonic creative control can lead to mediocrity.

I'm pretty sure we did use their gear if i remember right. I have cool stuff here, but if the guys seem fairly switched on about tone and have made an effort to acquire pieces of gear they like then I'll always start by using their gear first. The player / amp relationship in the moment is really important I feel (the main reason I don't love the whole re-amp trend).

Typically I don't use multiple mics. I've tried it a thousand times because that's what "everyone does" but no matter what you say, multiple mics on any source creates at least SOME kind of phase issue, however minor it may seem. In my experience the phase crapola often outweighs the positive frequency benefits. But that's just me, and I know I'm in the minority.

It was likely a 121 into my thermoinic culture rooster, eq a touch to taste, and MAYBE the distressor but i can't remember and that band doesn't have any ******** CHUG parts that spike the low end so there is a good chance i didn't use the distressor.

Mic placement was pretty basic. slightly off center a couple inches back. everyone knows the deal with that, no re-invention of the wheel there.

I think I had the main rhythm player track a lot of it. With bands like that I'll do Main guitars for both the Left and Right, each one of those tracks is supposed to resemble how it would be live, even if only one guitar player is laying down both parts.

Then I do what I i'll fondly refer to as the "tard track." Which essentially is a stripped down mostly root chord thrid track i tuck down the middle under the bass. I feel like this can be the "connective tissue" between the left and right making my mix sound less like a oddly unconvincing wide isolation experiment where i have manically locked each guitar player in different speakers never to return.

I also like it when one dude rocks all the rhythm for the whole record. because then there is less picking nuance bullshit where one skinny jeans clad band dude looks at the other and says "well i played it this way at practice, how come you didn't tell me then..." blah blah... shutup.

I don't always get my way on this one, but in on the his day has come stuff i believe that i did. I want to record that band again.


oookkkk....


defeater snare sound time. i'll shoot for less long winded and ranty on this one.

Pearl 6.5 x 14 aluminum ref series drum. This thing is a monster. We went through literally over 10 snare combos before decided this was the winner AGAIN. (we used it on our lost ground EP as well).

Tune it low.

Do not dampen your top head with anything, if you have to do this. you're screwing the pooch and need to get your drum tuning game one.

A little ring is cool, it's what connects the hits and turns it into an instrument with it's own body / life / and soul and not a dumb lazy wooden (or metal) turd.

a minimum of 35% of my drum sound are the room mics. These are croosh. basically, i hate phase issues. they ruin everything. but if you are trying to make someone feel like they are hearing a drummer in a real "place" and not listening to a snare next to their face, then you need mics at varying distances from the kit to give it that 3rd dimension that takes us from playing Super Mario for original NES, to playing mario galaxy 2. like i said. croosh.

at this point, provided your drums sounds good when you hit them. your drummer doesn't suck (generally he does), and you have your head wrapped around phase... shit should sound good already in the control room with just some minimal panning. I don't eq, i don't compress, i don't do a damn thing while i'm tracking drums. Post processing is just that, POST. If what you hear sounds like shit, then stop. figure out why and don't say "it's cool i'm going to trigger that rack tom anyway."

why?

because you are screwing yourself out of being able to use those natural actually believable mics that are further away from the kit. So then you'll end up on GS reading a bunch of knuckle heads telling you to high pass your rooms and overheads at like 800k so you can get all of your "body" from the close mics / drum triggers (DUDE THEY SOUND SO REAL!). imho, that's ********.

ok, so things sounds good in the control room. hell yes. now, the rest is about maintaining what you have created AND the takes AND the composition. Just because Joey Homeboy spent 12 hours a day for the last 7 months writing these siiiiiiick drum parts, does not mean they don't suck. they probably do suck. they are probably all about how far he can get his wang into his sweet vented limited edition triple stripe sparkle orange county drum that his boy who works at guitar center got him a sweet deal on, when he should be doing his job.

Sometimes he just needs a tweak or two, sometimes you need to straight up re-invent, sometimes the drummer knows what's up and handles his business. But it's your job to drink a **** ton of coffee and make sure he's on point.

The drum composition drastically effects your ability to mix the drums. I know that sounds weird, but it does. When the puzzle pieces aren't fitting together right, no DAW trickery will every get you to the promise land.

I do think 421's are awesome on top snare. The whole which mic "bleeds" more thing is dumb to me. they all bleed and that' a good thing. remember that every mic hears everything that is going on, just to different degrees. we should be WORKING with that, because it's reality and not trying to fight physics. So yeah, maybe a 421 has more bleed, but i find that bleed to be less annoying that a 57 personally. Think of Bleed as a girls. Bleed IS coming to your drum party, period. Now, do we want fugly "i wouldn't hit that with a bag over my head" bleed or do we want "She's got curves but if I have a beer and dim the lights it's do-able" bleed? NEITHER are ideal, but lets at least have as few fuglies at the party as possible. And IF they have to be there, lets as least put them work work.

Make me a sandwich, bleed.

Pretty sure I couldn't ask for a better ending to my rant.
#42
30th March 2011
Old 30th March 2011
  #42
Gear addict
 
lostwars's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Near Boston, MA
Posts: 418

This is a beautiful thread.
#43
30th March 2011
Old 30th March 2011
  #43
Gear addict
 
FredYeah's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 499

It sure is. Awesome dude!
#44
30th March 2011
Old 30th March 2011
  #44
Gearslutz.com admin
 
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Joined: Apr 2002
Location: A Yank in London, UK

#45
30th March 2011
Old 30th March 2011
  #45
Gear nut
 
Cadde's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Hamburg , Germany
Posts: 105

yeah , great read , cool sense of humour !

nice guy it seems !



MORE !
#46
30th March 2011
Old 30th March 2011
  #46
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

haha thanks guys. i get so fired up about this stuff. n3rd 4 lpyhe.
#47
31st March 2011
Old 31st March 2011
  #47
Gear maniac
 
xhavepatiencex's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: portland, or
Posts: 184

hardcore in non-hardcore places
Quote
1
#48
31st March 2011
Old 31st March 2011
  #48
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 82

One of the best things I have read on gearslutz thumbsup
#49
31st March 2011
Old 31st March 2011
  #49
Gear Head
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Quebec City
Posts: 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by xhavepatiencex View Post
hardcore in non-hardcore places
Word.
#50
31st March 2011
Old 31st March 2011
  #50
Lives for gear
 
mr jkn's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 589

Such a inspiring read. Jay's very punchy mixes reminds at least me that mixing in the box is not a bad thing in itself. And that recording in a cramped basement isn't either :-)
Makes a weekend warrior like me happy and inspired to further pursue the art of recording. Very cool thread!
#51
3rd April 2011
Old 3rd April 2011
  #51
Gear interested
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 25

Hey Jay,
thanks for the detailed and enjoyable Snaresound story.thumbsup
#52
3rd April 2011
Old 3rd April 2011
  #52
Gear nut
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 127

Hey Jay, this is John from Man, the Reformer. Still loving the crap out of our song you recorded! I just came across this thread and I definitely found it enlightening. I've been doing my homework on some of those plugs you used on our stuff and they def sound great. The Brainworx shredspread seems like it would be perfect for the way I like to handle guitars too. I took down the names of alot of the plugs but what was the name of that dynamic EQ you were using? I was an airhead and only wrote Dyn EQ haha, not too specific.

by the way, so the rest of you slutz know Jay's sense of humor is even more priceless in the studio
#53
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #53
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

Duuuude you guys gotta come back and do more songs. Im glad that one is working out for you though!

The shredspread is cool, however I do not "spread" I only shred. And I also recommend "shredding" in moderation. It has all these other features as well like automating panning etc which is all part of the spread aspect built I do all that by hand. I tried out the waves vocal rider which is kind of a similar concept except for levels instead of panning and felt the same way about it. Ya just can't beat doing it by hand (that's what he said?)

I was demoing the gliss eq by voxengo which is the dynamic eq you speak of. Its good and the analyizer is great but if you're looking to save bucks you can pull off similar tricks with any multiband comp.

Lastly, while writing down the plugz I used is nothing short of adorable, remember its about getting your head right before throwing a bunch of plugins at something. Plugins are guns, you can use them to kill the bad guy but if your aren't trained you WILL blow your ****ing head off. So yes, throw a million plugs on your track because only experience will truly teach you what not to do, but don't throw money at something unless you:

- know why you need it
- have a sick trust fund (if so, let's hang out more)
- making irresponsible financial decisions gives your world of warcraft paladin +2 punk and +5 cred.

Sent from my MB860 using Gearslutz.com App
#54
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #54
Gear interested
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 13

This thread is great. I love how much detail Jay goes into everything.

Jay mixed my band and saved my life. Would definitely recommend recording or getting your band mixed by him to anyone considering. He will never disappoint.
#55
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #55
Lives for gear
 
rumimusic's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 549

Hey! Jay it's Kia! Long time since Kobe & All Her Kings huh? Glad to see you're working!
Kia
#56
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #56
Gear maniac
 
Matt@Oracle.'s Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 171

Just wanted to say thank you to Jay for contributing, Lost Ground is definitely in the top 5 of my favorite sounding mixes.

And to top it off, I saw Defeater last week when they played in Perth, Australia and it was one of the most amazing performances I have ever seen. It seriously moved me emotionally which is something I haven't experienced in a live show before.

I'd love to know what Jay is using for his vocals, and any tips to get the vocal sounding as upfront, and honest as it does on Lost Ground. It also seems fairly dry but in a good way.
#57
4th April 2011
Old 4th April 2011
  #57
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

Kia! Long time! What have you been up to? Paul is in a new band called modernist you should check out I think they have a band camp.

Vocals for me are usually a great river me-1nv or a shadow hills mono Gama depending on the vocalist. I use my rooster if I feel like destroying a screamer with the cool tube stuff in there. I did a quick session for a band called "old wounds" where I did ungodly front end distortion with it. After that its almost always into a distressor. Often with hp filter in both the dectector and audio paths.

Thanks for the kind words on defeater and lost ground. That mix definitely has the power but I think I got more nuance out of the new record. Curious to see how I feel about them in a couple years when I hopefully think they are crap due to continued improvement.

Sent from my MB860 using Gearslutz.com App
#58
5th April 2011
Old 5th April 2011
  #58
Gear nut
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by xparkerx View Post
Plugins are guns, you can use them to kill the bad guy but if your aren't trained you WILL blow your ****ing head off.
well said. I def agree 100% but I just like to research everything anyway if its some tools Ive never heard of. One more thing, are you down with parallel compression? Your drums sound wicked punchy and everything and its a pretty standard tech but I know how you hate phase and sometimes when I do that it tends to mess with my drum sounds. Although Im pretty sure this is due to plugin latency... your thoughts?
#59
6th April 2011
Old 6th April 2011
  #59
Gear nut
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Boston

I've messed with it. And I have my eye on the A Designs Nail which I know rocks that Mix knob. But so far, it hasn't changed my world.

Maybe I'll get the Nail and come back on there and sing a different tune! ha, I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time I did a complete 180 on a technique (or the last)!
#60
9th April 2011
Old 9th April 2011
  #60
Lives for gear
 
rumimusic's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 549

Quote:
Originally Posted by xparkerx View Post
Kia! Long time! What have you been up to? Paul is in a new band called modernist you should check out I think they have a band camp.

Vocals for me are usually a great river me-1nv or a shadow hills mono Gama depending on the vocalist. I use my rooster if I feel like destroying a screamer with the cool tube stuff in there. I did a quick session for a band called "old wounds" where I did ungodly front end distortion with it. After that its almost always into a distressor. Often with hp filter in both the dectector and audio paths.

Thanks for the kind words on defeater and lost ground. That mix definitely has the power but I think I got more nuance out of the new record. Curious to see how I feel about them in a couple years when I hopefully think they are crap due to continued improvement.

Sent from my MB860 using Gearslutz.com App
Producing at Waterfront Studio in Hudson, NY these days. You should come visit, you'd dig this place. Its a real trip. Was so cool to see you get a shoutout on the forum!
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