Joey Sturgis
Old 26th October 2009
  #1
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Joey Sturgis

this guy puts out some slick sounding metal CDs. anyone know what DAW he runs, or just generally some gear he uses? i cant really find any info on what he uses anywhere, and i'm pretty curious. i know he uses steven slate drums because I can hear them ha. but beside that ive no idea! you here joey ?? haha
Old 26th October 2009
  #2
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okay so i found a post of his on an online forum that says his rack consists of:

central station
rme 800
mackie onyx 800
pod xt (but i use pod farm)
monster power

Jesus this man knows how to make modest gear sound amazing....

so...what DAW Joey ????
Old 26th October 2009
  #3
Gear nut
 

he records and mixes in cubase with a lot of wav plugins. he used to use ozone on guitars, but you can hear that's not really there anymore

you can easily emulate the sturgis sound as it's really nothing special. it's just making snippets of guitar and splicing, replacing EVERYTHING with gogs, and doing a lot of EQing to the line6 diamondplate guitar sound, especially in the 4k range.

i think his productions have actually detracted from what music is supposed to sound like. every band he "produces" ends up sounding the same because he has no real core recording talents, just a lot of sitting behind a computer and tweaking.

i mean, the end result sounds punchy and full, but there's no difference in production style from anything because he's found one set of rules that works for one style of music, and just copy paste copy paste copy paste.
Old 26th October 2009
  #4
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Quote:
he records and mixes in cubase with a lot of wav plugins. he used to use ozone on guitars, but you can hear that's not really there anymore

you can easily emulate the sturgis sound as it's really nothing special. it's just making snippets of guitar and splicing, replacing EVERYTHING with gogs, and doing a lot of EQing to the line6 diamondplate guitar sound, especially in the 4k range.

i think his productions have actually detracted from what music is supposed to sound like. every band he "produces" ends up sounding the same because he has no real core recording talents, just a lot of sitting behind a computer and tweaking.

i mean, the end result sounds punchy and full, but there's no difference in production style from anything because he's found one set of rules that works for one style of music, and just copy paste copy paste copy paste.
i agree with you to an extent. definitely not going to go as fas as to say he has "no core recording talent" though...not about a person that is successful and has clients booked up the butt for the next year. and regardless, there is definitely a market for this sound. his mixes translate this genre beautifully to the masses, and theres is no better way get the point of a song across than that.
Old 26th October 2009
  #5
He definitely has core talent, or else no one would work with him. His sound is a little boring and ITB, but as far as ITB goes, he does it well. He does the sound all the kids want these days (unfortunately).

The only thing about him that bugs me, and it bugs me a lot, is that he does everything. He produced, engineered, mixed, and mastered everything on the newest Devil Wears Prada CD. Its always beneficial to have another set of ears on something, at the very least in the mastering stage.
Old 27th October 2009
  #6
Not rippin on the guy, but he has definitely filled a niche. I couldn't record that music time and time again. Most of those bands are so cheesy (e.g. attack attack), but I guess that's what the kids like.
Old 27th October 2009
  #7
oh God, Attack Attack is atrocious...
Quote
1
Old 27th October 2009
  #8
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totally attrocious

and, you're right, i mispoke when i said "no recording talent" because to an extent, he's still recording, but he's becoming like, a metal DJ or something, making edits over and over and over and not doing anything as far as choosing the right mics, placements, instruments, for the job etc.

i know it's a sign of the times, and that's fine. his clients and my clients kinda seem to float back and forth, as in i'll work with a lot of people he has worked with, or people i have worked with end up in his studio, and it's just a strange occurence, and the bands we work with always end up sounding TOTALLY different from each other depending on which was the newer material.

it's cool that he's found a way to make the digital domain work for the manufactured sound, but it will die out eventually... i hope anyway :-)
Old 27th October 2009
  #9
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he has made a name for him self in the metal domain, especially with the devil wears prada.
Old 27th October 2009
  #10
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Quote:
totally attrocious

and, you're right, i mispoke when i said "no recording talent" because to an extent, he's still recording, but he's becoming like, a metal DJ or something, making edits over and over and over and not doing anything as far as choosing the right mics, placements, instruments, for the job etc.

i know it's a sign of the times, and that's fine. his clients and my clients kinda seem to float back and forth, as in i'll work with a lot of people he has worked with, or people i have worked with end up in his studio, and it's just a strange occurence, and the bands we work with always end up sounding TOTALLY different from each other depending on which was the newer material.

it's cool that he's found a way to make the digital domain work for the manufactured sound, but it will die out eventually... i hope anyway :-)
haha yeah thats kinda true he is a "metal DJ," at least in that he engineers masters and produces his cds entirely. this definitely bothers me a bit. but who is gonna turn down a label who is willing to pay you the dough for it and likes the way you do it?

thats cool you've entered that market, I have a sort spot for "scene metal" like the devil wears prada and others when its well written.

& attack attack's tpain style singing vocals are extremely lame...they are cool guys though, i got to do a short stint on the warped tour this past summer and they were fun to hang with
Old 27th October 2009
  #11
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Harry Hughes's Avatar
 

FWIW Joey has also said that he prefers to use the Dual Tone feature of POD Farm now. I use POD Farm personally and dual tone really helps significantly for heavy rhythm guitars, making them fuller and giving them more attack. Dude has great ears and has practically honed his POD Farm skills to a science, there is no denying that.
Give a lot of people the POD Farm plug in and they wont come close to his guitar tones.
Honestly I don't listen to a lot of his work, and I can say without hesitating that Attack Attack represents a side of metalcore I truly despise.

Yes, he quantizes all the drums, but he is working with metalcore, deathcore and post hardcore and it's not the kind of music that goes for a particular old school, loose vibe, it's all about the tightness and precision (in the studio at least anyway, I can't say for sure how all those bands are when playing live).
He does however mic up cymbals, so it's not like he has zero knowledge of using those kind of tools and I've always been impressed by the amazing results he gets from such a minimal amount of gear.
Most people can't get half as good with 5 times as much gear, proving it's 90 per cent the man, 10 per cent the machine.
Old 27th October 2009
  #12
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I definitely wouldnt consider him an addition to engineering purists haha
but theres def something to be said for his editing skills

and while we're on the subject of engineering in the metal world.

I just wanna say that ion dissonance's "Minus The Herd"
and The Black Dahlia Murder's "Miasma" are my favorite metal mixes ever. :D

check em out!
Old 27th October 2009
  #13
Having done a few metal/hardcore EPs (more of the latter, yet both unfortunate), I find that drum editing, while relatively easy, is really time consuming, and actually does take some skill, watching transients dont get chopped and whatnot.

On that note, how do other ITB people approach editing in today's genres?
Old 27th October 2009
  #14
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Joey has built his reputation and career up from literally nothing but his own skill at making younger bands sound really good for that style. Sure you can dog some of those ridiculous bands like attack attack, but his clients are coming to him for the sound he has created. I mean seriously, it seems like every CLA mix is also identical because thats HIS sound and thats what the clients want, but he uses that million dollar room of outboard gear while Joey mixes ITB on Cubase with minimal rack effects and krk's. Lets not forget the number 1 spot on itunes he recently garnished. I admire Joey for creating such a high profile career in nowheresville, Indiana (only a couple hours from where I went to college at Purdue). Look up some recording videos of various bands at the Foundation. It looks like basically a converted garage. So much for ocean way drums rooms or capitol records echo chambers. I will say, however, that his mixes do lack a lot of artistic ambiances and technique that Underoath proved can exist in post-hardcore/metalcore on Lost in the Sound of Separation. Overall, I give Joey 2 thumbs up for the progression he has made over the years. There are such leaps between each TDWP album.
Old 27th October 2009
  #15
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Quote:
Joey has built his reputation and career up from literally nothing but his own skill at making younger bands sound really good for that style. Sure you can dog some of those ridiculous bands like attack attack, but his clients are coming to him for the sound he has created. I mean seriously, it seems like every CLA mix is also identical because thats HIS sound and thats what the clients want, but he uses that million dollar room of outboard gear while Joey mixes ITB on Cubase with minimal rack effects and krk's. Lets not forget the number 1 spot on itunes he recently garnished. I admire Joey for creating such a high profile career in nowheresville, Indiana (only a couple hours from where I went to college at Purdue). Look up some recording videos of various bands at the Foundation. It looks like basically a converted garage. So much for ocean way drums rooms or capitol records echo chambers. I will say, however, that his mixes do lack a lot of artistic ambiances and technique that Underoath proved can exist in post-hardcore/metalcore on Lost in the Sound of Separation. Overall, I give Joey 2 thumbs up for the progression he has made over the years. There are such leaps between each TDWP album.
you said it man
Old 27th October 2009
  #16
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Great post pfosk.
From the latest I've read he has switched to Adam A7 monitors though now.
He used to use Behringer Truths too.
Old 29th January 2010
  #17
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I feel That You all have said it quite well, and the reason this kid is asking about JOEY Sturgis is because he listens to his work and he does fall into this category of "KIDS these Days" judging from his picture.

Dont get me wrong, I fall into that category if you will too, im just 24 and listen to a lot of his work as well. I love the sound for that genere and that is his style. I as well record bands in that genere and take a similar approach, Triggers, ezdrummer(dfh), Podx3, edits, NO AUTO TUNE. but i usually layer real amps in, as well as room mics, real overheads. outboard gear !

I agree his approach has no variation from one band to the next, if it was not for the lead singers of the bands he works with and i could only hear the instruments i would not be able to tell any difference either.

As stated he has filled a niche, ( what i belive to be dead in the next 3-5 years) but who knows if this becomes the new form of being an engineer than maybe my style will become niche and i will become a "HOT PRODUCER" because I use outboard gear !
Old 23rd February 2010
  #18
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Joey...

I just listened to Devil wears Prada...weird name, anyways. Joey is filling a void with young hardcore bands and developing a sound and a scene. His rates are really low and the records are made really fast. Sonically it is what it is, this is more about the music to me, not the gear. It is all about the vibe.
All scenes in music start in a crappy little room. From Motown to the Philly sound, from Grunge to Metal, records are made everyday with what little gear people can pull together.
I think in this instance we should cut Joey a break. Starting and providing a sound for a scene is a great move that will hopefully turn into more gear and a better bigger room.






Quote:
Originally Posted by pfosk View Post
Joey has built his reputation and career up from literally nothing but his own skill at making younger bands sound really good for that style. Sure you can dog some of those ridiculous bands like attack attack, but his clients are coming to him for the sound he has created. I mean seriously, it seems like every CLA mix is also identical because thats HIS sound and thats what the clients want, but he uses that million dollar room of outboard gear while Joey mixes ITB on Cubase with minimal rack effects and krk's. Lets not forget the number 1 spot on itunes he recently garnished. I admire Joey for creating such a high profile career in nowheresville, Indiana (only a couple hours from where I went to college at Purdue). Look up some recording videos of various bands at the Foundation. It looks like basically a converted garage. So much for ocean way drums rooms or capitol records echo chambers. I will say, however, that his mixes do lack a lot of artistic ambiances and technique that Underoath proved can exist in post-hardcore/metalcore on Lost in the Sound of Separation. Overall, I give Joey 2 thumbs up for the progression he has made over the years. There are such leaps between each TDWP album.
Old 17th April 2010
  #19
Gear Head
 

hey guys, joey here

i dont have a lot of time to comment or say much in response to what all has been said in this thread, but i will address a few things

when i started out i used a very minimal amount of poor gear, and to be honest the results weren't that great. now days this is the basics of what i have...

Mac Pro (dual 64 bit processors, 16 cores total, 8 gigs of ram, 2 terrabytes of storage space)
Pro Tools HD 8.0.3 cs2 with 192 i/o +A/D option card
API 3124+, Great River ME-1NV, Presonus DigiMax (for triggers) lightpiped
RME FireFace 800 (for interfacing with old cubase projects)
Mackie Onyx 800 (trying to sell this, actually haha)
Central Station (upgrading to dangerous box soon)
Adam A7's
and lots of other random shit

Most of my sound is achieved via editing and take no prisoners style editing. In other words, I really care about precision and execution as the forefront of my production. I dont really work with bands who have a vibe at all. A lot of these bands even start the whole song creation process with a sequencer and ez drummer, so its bound to sound programmed from the get go. With so many people creating robotic esque music, its hard for me to put any sort of natural feel into music that didn't already have it in the first place. I get the same complaints from a lot of people, and I've worked towards fixing them. Thing's I've already address

1. drums sound too fake, and too similair

First off, I allow every band to choose their samples. Some bands don't even know what they want so I choose for them. In blind listening shoot outs, a lot of drummers pick the exact same snare and kick combination. I also mic up drums at least once per record in my own willingness to find natural drum tones. and I also do this if the band wants me too. 90% of the time we don't come up with a sound that is satisfactory. This comes with the turf of recording in your home. Another thing that comes with that turf is the shear fact that most of the music these bands are making does not call for a natural drum tone type of sound. You can argue with me all you want there, but its true. Even fall out boy has replaced snare drum, people. And a lot of the people I work with would consider them to be a natural sounding rock band.

2. auto tune

I used to suck with this tool, I don't now. If you care to argue, I am willing to challenge you. It will greatly depend on the record of choice. This is because measures have only recently been taken to achieve the realism and natural sound of pitch. In the past, I've avoided the extra work. But now I put a lot of time into pitch correction, and my new albums show it.

3. Everyband sounds the same

This is not true. Alot of people take this shot at me from the view of 2 or 3 records only. Listen to my entire discography. You'll find LOTS of different sounding records. A few worth mentioning here:
1. Oceano - Depths
2. A Plea For Purging - Depravity
3. We Came As Romans - To Plant A Seed
4. Before Their Eyes - Untouchable
5. Lets Get It - Digital Spaces EP

all 5 of those sound completely different from one another.

My advice to beginners is to focus on getting great performances, and using editing only to make them sound as best as possible. Even natural performances can have editing to make them sound more in the pocket. People like Brady Barnett and Kenny Giora have shown this many times. Gear is only as good as the button pusher.
Quote
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Old 17th April 2010
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeymusicguy View Post
My advice to beginners is to focus on getting great performances, and using editing only to make them sound as best as possible. Even natural performances can have editing to make them sound more in the pocket. People like Brady Barnett and Kenny Giora have shown this many times. Gear is only as good as the button pusher.
Well said, Joey! Welcome to GS.
Old 17th April 2010
  #21
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Great to have you here Joey! I feel like some people also dont understand how horrible hardcore/metalcore sounds without edited drums and other instruments. The music needs to be locked dead on to a click for it to sound good.
Old 17th April 2010
  #22
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sweet, joey got a gs acount! probably to escape the "¯\(°_o)/¯ pod tact?" of sneap forums
Old 17th April 2010
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s34nsm411 View Post
sweet, joey got a gs acount! probably to escape the "¯\(°_o)/¯ pod tact?" of sneap forums
Old 17th April 2010
  #24
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thanks for chiming in joey!

is it true you use mostly pod farm for guitar tones? or do you use them in conjunction with real heads etc.

thanks
Old 18th April 2010
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneider View Post
thanks for chiming in joey!

is it true you use mostly pod farm for guitar tones? or do you use them in conjunction with real heads etc.

thanks
in the very early days, i recorded real amps. go back to releases like never again, or prada's beautiful discord and check it out. i also tried a hybrid of real amps for the amp, and then cab simulation via plugin... for that check out every bridge burned - Aun Aprendo

honestly, it sounded horrible, which is why i took the amp simulation route. at the time i was looking for something more convenient and systematic. a way that i could create and store tones. something you can't do even with the best of tube amps, because lets face it, analog is unstable and chaotic. which we all know is part of the sound, but at the same time, a fly could take a shit on your mic and you've lost your magical tone. i also wasn't very smart as an engineer back then, so i got crap results. so because of the switch to amp simulations, experimentation, and just practice... it just sort of stuck. i got better and better sounds using things like pod xt pro and pod farm, and just going with the flow. every once in a while i'd experiment, but i'd always end up going back to line 6. at this point, i could be a line 6 sales man, and that doesn't mean i'm proud of it... but lets be realistic. label is giving me 14 - 25 days to pre pro, engineer, mix, and master 10 - 13 songs at times. lets look at all points of view here:

1. album has a strict deadline
2. band isn't prepared, sometimes coming in with only 2 or 3 songs with a 10 song quota
3. lots of improvisation choices are made on the spot... band hasn't rehearsed or is learning the material for the first time while recording

when you look at it like this, you're hindered in several areas; but first and foremost TIME. with limits on time, we will have to dedicate more of it to the actual tracking and editing duties. this leaves less time for creativity in the tone of the sounds, like guitar tone creation.

i have a re-amp box, but i'm not paid to use it, if you know what i mean.

if anyone gave a shit about their guitar tone, they'd be paying me for a day to find it. but no one is. instead everyone expects something magical out of nothing, which is typical america. people... welcome to americanized music factory that we're having to become. i bet these label owners eat dinner together and laugh about the fact they just made 50+ grand out of a CD that costed 8 grand (do not quote me out of context)

when you look at it like that, then who gives a ****? they don't, and i'm not being paid to, and not given time to, so how can i?

given all of that, i definitely still try as much as possible to make it interesting SOMEHOW, even if i don't have a magical natural drum tone, or the heaviest guitar tone ever made. no one cares!

at any rate, thanks for the warming welcome. it seems like anywhere i post i start some sort of shit storm because i'm some how flagged as the king of crab core or this hipster scene bull shit. sorry guys, if i could roll around in real, even vibey productions all day i would, but its not knocking on my door.

i have a a lot of expenses so i've gotta grab the cash while i can! i'm sure this shit will all blow over some day when myspace.com goes offline, and wearing your tour pass on your side is illegal; then we can all go back to recording the kitchen sink to make the next war drum sound.
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1
Old 18th April 2010
  #26
Hey Joey, by any chance, are you doing the new Abandon All Ships record? Those guys are from my home town.
Old 18th April 2010
  #27
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BLUElightCory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeymusicguy View Post
i have a a lot of expenses so i've gotta grab the cash while i can! i'm sure this shit will all blow over some day when myspace.com goes offline, and wearing your tour pass on your side is illegal; then we can all go back to recording the kitchen sink to make the next war drum sound.
Ha, I love it, I think we're in the same boat. How sick are you of bass drops?
Old 18th April 2010
  #28
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quick question.....with Cubase, what did you do to edit the drums? Did you use triggers and just use the midi, or slice by hand?
Old 18th April 2010
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam guaiana View Post
Hey Joey, by any chance, are you doing the new Abandon All Ships record? Those guys are from my home town.
Not that I know of.
Old 18th April 2010
  #30
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUElightCory View Post
Ha, I love it, I think we're in the same boat. How sick are you of bass drops?
Hate them. They're no longer a way to make a part stand out because everyone has them therefore you have to have them just to be in the race.

So dumb.
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