What did you guys think of the new Trident Monitors

[RCM - Ronan]

What do you all think of the new monitors from Trident at AES with the swiveling mids and tweeter? To me it was one of the most interesting new things at the show and no one seems to be talking about them.

They sounded good as far as one could tell on a show floor, but I will actually have to hear them in a studio to know if its a brilliant design or gimicky, but its certainly new and interesting.

[ProsdocimiRec.]

well we were right there, they sounded very interesting but, yes, I'd like to listen to them in my control room ...
I also liked the KRK 6" ... another monitor I'd like to try in a quiet place...

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by rcm

What do you all think of the new monitors from Trident at AES with the swiveling mids and tweeter? To me it was one of the most interesting new things at the show and no one seems to be talking about them.

They sounded good as far as one could tell on a show floor, but I will actually have to hear them in a studio to know if its a brilliant design or gimicky, but its certainly new and interesting.

I don't know if it's a "brilliant design", but it's not a gimmick. It serves several purposes:

1. It isolates the critical mids and highs from the bass enclosure.
2. When swiveled, It eliminates the "edge diffraction" problems (in most flat-plane speakers).
3. it allows precise directivity without moving the whole enclosure.
4. The long "tube" volume allows for a lower midrange crossover point.
5. It lets the engineer swivel the speakers (for producers that stand behind the console).
6. It eliminates direct wire connections/strain, and the contacts are self cleaning.
7. Using "truncated" frames allows for closer mid/high spacing, reducing phase problems.
8. Putting the mids and highs on the inside of the enclosure (rather than in the middle, or the outside) eliminates Doppler and Intermodulation Distortion caused by mid and high interactions with the woofer and port.

In addition to endorsements from Al Schmitt, Ed Cherney, George Augspurger, and Ted Perlman (who HAVE heard them in a quiet studio), you can add Chuck Ainlay and Frank Filipetti to the list.

[mixerguy]

they look cool, and i hope to demo them sometime

to the original poster RCM - i watched your AES coverage show on your recording show website - excellent!

[TRW]

Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst

I don't know if it's a "brilliant design", but it's not a gimmick. It serves several purposes:

1. It isolates the critical mids and highs from the bass enclosure.
2. When swiveled, It eliminates the "edge diffraction" problems (in most flat-plane speakers).
3. it allows precise directivity without moving the whole enclosure.
4. The long "tube" volume allows for a lower midrange crossover point.
5. It lets the engineer swivel the speakers (for producers that stand behind the console).
6. It eliminates direct wire connections/strain, and the contacts are self cleaning.
7. Using "truncated" frames allows for closer mid/high spacing, reducing phase problems.
8. Putting the mids and highs on the inside of the enclosure (rather than in the middle, or the outside) eliminates Doppler and Intermodulation Distortion caused by mid and high interactions with the woofer and port.

In addition to endorsements from Al Schmitt, Ed Cherney, George Augspurger, and Ted Perlman (who HAVE heard them in a quiet studio), you can add Chuck Ainlay and Frank Filipetti to the list.

Hey Harvey, good work with the list of endorsements, must mean there are good things to come from these.

I have one or two questions RE diffraction.

Surely the little triangles exposed in the top and bottom plates when rotating the HF/MF unit cause massive amount of vertical reflection and edge diffraction (diffraction at higher MF)?

Why not have these inside edges cut off to allow and open top and bottom when rotated?

The rotation appeared pretty low torque (easy to move) in the SOS video I saw, how do you fix the MF/HF unit in place so that both monitors remain focused on where you set 'em? Is there some kind of lock?

Looking foward to hearing them!

-T

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by TRW

Hey Harvey, good work with the list of endorsements, must mean there are good things to come from these.

I have one or two questions RE diffraction.

Surely the little triangles exposed in the top and bottom plates when rotating the HF/MF unit cause massive amount of vertical reflection and edge diffraction (diffraction at higher MF)?

Why not have these inside edges cut off to allow and open top and bottom when rotated?

The rotation appeared pretty low torque (easy to move) in the SOS video I saw, how do you fix the MF/HF unit in place so that both monitors remain focused on where you set 'em? Is there some kind of lock?

Looking foward to hearing them!

-T

I thought that too, but when we measured it, we found the overhang to be insignificant as far as any serious contributions to edge diffraction or standing waves. George Augspurger spent about two hours listening to the prototypes at Village Recorders and he is very sensitive to reflections. He didn't find any problems. The fact that George Augspurger actually liked them was a welcome bonus, since he's a VERY critical listener. His endorsement is the one that I treasure the most. Of course, all the other guys ain't exactly chopped liver either.

There's no lock and yes, they're pretty easy to move, but they pretty much stay where you move them. Doesn't seem to be a problem in actual use. You can probably stuff a piece of foam in the bottom or top to lock 'em in place. Not exactly an elegant solution, but it would work fine if you really wanna lock them in place. I thought about adding stops or an angle finder, but after playing with the prototypes for many hours, we decided it wasn't necessary and would just increase the cost needlessly.

[TRW]

Fair do's Harvey!

Really interesting piece of work. I like the idea of some of these new 3-ways that are coming to market and given George's reputation, his endorsement definitely has my interest high!

How much will these run in the UK?

Thanks
-Tom

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by TRW

Fair do's Harvey!

Really interesting piece of work. I like the idea of some of these new 3-ways that are coming to market and given George's reputation, his endorsement definitely has my interest high!

How much will these run in the UK?

Thanks
-Tom

That's up to PMI, but I'm guessing around £2150 (USD $3,500) for flat black and £2450 (USD $4,000) for Piano Gloss Black. They will be made in both the U.S., and in the UK. Please keep in mind that these are all just guesses on my part.

[Jax]

Very cool and well thought out design.

But why does the port above the LF driver look like it's been firing cannon balls?

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by Jax

Very cool and well thought out design.

But why does the port above the LF driver look like it's been firing cannon balls?

LOL !!! These are prototypes # 3, 4, 5, and 6. The actual finished production units will look a whole lot better. Brent Casey at PMI did an incredible job of getting both sets done in time for the show - with almost no lead time. The special 6" closed-cell tubing isn't even available in California; we had to ship him enough tubing from Texas to make the units.

[TRW]

Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst

That's up to PMI, but I'm guessing around £2150 (USD $3,500) for flat black and £2450 (USD $4,000) for Piano Gloss Black. They will be made in both the U.S., and in the UK. Please keep in mind that these are all just guesses on my part.

Nice. Hopefully they will hit that mark and be as good as I hope they are!

Thanks Harvey.
-Tom

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by TRW

Nice. Hopefully they will hit that mark and be as good as I hope they are!

Thanks Harvey.
-Tom

I think you'll be pleased when you hear them.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by TRW

The rotation appeared pretty low torque (easy to move) in the SOS video I saw, how do you fix the MF/HF unit in place so that both monitors remain focused on where you set 'em? Is there some kind of lock?

Here's an update from the production team:

"The final design will have about 1/8 inch thick felt in a donut shape on the top and on the bottom of the rotating tube. There will be just under 1/8 inch clearance resulting in compression of the felt and resulting clutch action."

[PDC]

Originally Posted by rcm

What do you all think of the new monitors from Trident at AES with the swiveling mids and tweeter? To me it was one of the most interesting new things at the show and no one seems to be talking about them.

They sounded good as far as one could tell on a show floor, but I will actually have to hear them in a studio to know if its a brilliant design or gimicky, but its certainly new and interesting.

Did they say anything about the SP ribbon mics?

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by PDC

Did they say anything about the SP ribbon mics?

I did not get any info about that at the show. Not to say that there was nothing new report, but I did not hear anything.

For anyone that can not figure out what the heck we are talking about with the swivel of the new monitors, here is a short clip of them in action.

http://www.homerecordingbootcamp.com...ntmonitors.mov

[The MPCist]

I'd rather that the logo/name wasn't so prominently on the face of it..... Great idea though and will check these out some time as well.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

I'd rather that the logo/name wasn't so prominently on the face of it..... Great idea though and will check these out some time as well.

For what it's worth, I agree with you about the nameplate. I plan to talk to Derek at PMI about making the nameplate smaller and a little more elegant.

[Jim Williams]

Any test results? I would like to see a waterfall plot of the speaker with different mid/tweet positions to determine the effects of moving them.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Any test results? I would like to see a waterfall plot of the speaker with different mid/tweet positions to determine the effects of moving them.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

I would love to see that, too. When we have time to do that, I'm sure we'll publish the results. So far, all I've determined that MIGHT happen is a small dip at 320 Hz, if it shows up at all.

[TRW]

Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst

Here's an update from the production team:

"The final design will have about 1/8 inch thick felt in a donut shape on the top and on the bottom of the rotating tube. There will be just under 1/8 inch clearance resulting in compression of the felt and resulting clutch action."

Sounds great! Thanks for the update.

Can you divulge any of Mr. Augspurgers thoughts in any detail?

-T

[hank alrich]

Originally Posted by rcm

What do you all think of the new monitors from Trident at AES with the swiveling mids and tweeter? To me it was one of the most interesting new things at the show and no one seems to be talking about them.

They sounded good as far as one could tell on a show floor, but I will actually have to hear them in a studio to know if its a brilliant design or gimicky, but its certainly new and interesting.

I haven't heard them but I can tell you this: they were designed by Harvey Gerst, and Harvey is not interested in gimmicks. If he designs something, whatever features it exhibits, he attempts to identify problems with existing designs and provide features which address those problems. He's a straight-up human of the first order.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by TRW

Sounds great! Thanks for the update.

Can you divulge any of Mr. Augspurgers thoughts in any detail?

-T

First words upon seeing the HG3's were: "That's very clever." After Al Schmitt and Ed Cherney left, George had us move the speakers further apart, and we elevated the back ends of the speakers by about 1/4". He played several test records, and one track he played had a percussion instrument George used as an imaging test, which the HG3's passed with flying colors.

George, like me, has a lot of problems with the current crop of near field designs. After about 1-1/2 hours of serious listening and moving the speakers around to different positions on the console, he felt that these speakers were really well balanced and gave us the quote we used.

George Augspurger is one of the most critical listeners I know; he hears everything, and his endorsement of the Trident HG3 speaker is one of the quotes I truly treasure.

[Kris]

Originally Posted by hank alrich

I haven't heard them but I can tell you this: they were designed by Harvey Gerst, and Harvey is not interested in gimmicks. If he designs something, whatever features it exhibits, he attempts to identify problems with existing designs and provide features which address those problems. He's a straight-up human of the first order.

Very cool. Was anyone else involved in the design?

What else have you designed Harvey? I look forward to hearing these.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by Kris

Very cool. Was anyone else involved in the design?

What else have you designed Harvey? I look forward to hearing these.

In the 50's and 60's, I worked at JBL and designed the D110F, D120F, D130F, and D140F. After I left JBL, I did make some suggestions to Ed May about the JBL 4310 and 4311 studio monitors during their design stage.

Late 60's and 70's, I worked at Acoustic Control, designing new speakers and amps with Russ Allee and designed the Black Widow guitar during that time.

Late 70's to early 80's, I was head Technical writer for Tandy, writing manuals and programs for the Radio Shack computers.

In the late 80's I worked at International Music Company where I designed some guitar amps for Ross, Jackson, and Charvel, Ross PA speakers, and The Mic (which was the basis for the CAD E200 microphone).

In the early 90's to the present, I started Indian Trail Recording Studio with my son Alex.

As far as the HG3's design, initially, no one else was involved in the actual design, except for Alan Hyatt (who commissioned the speakers), and Russ Allee (a brilliant designer/engineer who I've worked with for 40 years).

I built the first prototypes here in Texas, brought them to California where Russ and I worked on the basic crossover and amplifier design (mostly all Russ, with a few suggestions from me), and then, Alan and crew finally listening to the prototypes.

For the AES show, add Brent, Barry Justin, Jarrod, and Derek (all at PMI) for making the show prototypes a reality.

So the actual initial concept is mine, but the reality is all of the people mentioned above.

.

[Kris]

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[Obitheincredible]

I really want to get a pair!

[TRW]

Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst

First words upon seeing the HG3's were: "That's very clever." After Al Schmitt and Ed Cherney left, George had us move the speakers further apart, and we elevated the back ends of the speakers by about 1/4". He played several test records, and one track he played had a percussion instrument George used as an imaging test, which the HG3's passed with flying colors.

George, like me, has a lot of problems with the current crop of near field designs. After about 1-1/2 hours of serious listening and moving the speakers around to different positions on the console, he felt that these speakers were really well balanced and gave us the quote we used.

George Augspurger is one of the most critical listeners I know; he hears everything, and his endorsement of the Trident HG3 speaker is one of the quotes I truly treasure.

Absolutely, this is a huge recommendation. Did I miss a quote from George? I didn't see any...

Thanks.
-T

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by TRW

Absolutely, this is a huge recommendation. Did I miss a quote from George? I didn't see any...

Thanks.
-T

Sorry, here are the quotes:

[TRW]

Thanks! Nice quote, how long until demo pairs are available?

-T

[Harvey Gerst]

Alan Hyatt will know that better than I.