patchbay weirdness with MS, any thoughts?

[zarembo]

Hi, I will try to make this clear and concise as possible.

doing MS with 2channels of mic pre.

using TT patchbay which works just fine.

I patch M to one line input and

Split the S at mult at patchbay and return to two line inputs.
one cable is flipped so I have 1 side signal, and 1 side polarity reversed.

From here I bus the three lines to appropriate tracks on tape and voila!

just what I want

OKAY--

I was trying to be crafty and thought?

"Why can't I just come out of the mult with the two sides and go right to tape?"

Okay so from the pre I put the M right to tape--no prob. There's the M signal.
From the mult I put in one S to tape, and okay, there it is.

Then I put the OTHER S from the mult (doesn't matter which one, S or phase flipped S) and THEY BOTH CANCEL OUT.

Cancel out as in I have two signals hitting tape (M and S1) and ready to see the third but when I insert the patch the other S signal disappears which = no side info at all getting to the tape input.

Works great when I bus to tape through line inputs.
Sometimes it would be nice to not have to hit the board on the way in for this.

Any ideas?

Thanks you guys thumbsup

[muziqfreek]

hi dude!!! M&S stuff... fun fun fun!!!!what are you recording ? OH's / Vocals? (not that it makes any difference to the technique used just being nosy on my part!!!) .....hmm right.......... you only need to send the 2 signals (1 M & 1 S) to tape (DAW, MTRS, RADAR whatever) & you do your mult/split thing offa the tape return path......

enjoy...peace!!!

Matt

[zarembo]

Thanks so much for the tip.
I appreciate your suggestion.
You've helped me change my way of thinking on this matter.

But I still wonder what's causing them to cancel out?

So far I've been using Soundelux u99 or e250 for mid and e49 for side into api 3124.

Mostly recording a person singing/playing nylon string at the same time.

I usually mic him with two mics and have gotten so tired of this comb-filtery slishy sound that I can seem to minimize but never quite get rid of utilizing the 3:1. And when I put the IBP across it, it does the IBP thing IMO which sounds still strange but maybe not as strange as before (works much better for me on bass amp vs di, snr vs oh, etc).

What started my MS mania was getting to record a group of 10+ voices/different instruments/performers in the room together.

I'm hoping to post some samples with permission of the artists.

I have an Amek 9098 pre but I don't always care for the sound/image of the MS decoder in it compared to just doing it in the TAC Magnum console.

peace