Yamaha NS10m Studio monitors and Amplifier thread

[headspin]

Originally Posted by jampottt

Hi Guys,

I'm looking into getting a pair of NS10's. I currently use Tannoy Reveals, and although I haven't had many problems with them, I'd really like another set of monitors, and almost bough a pair of NS10's as my first set, figured that many people can't be wrong!

What's the best way to learn a pair of NS10's? Just listening to loads of music you're familiar with?

I'll only be using them for mixing.

Is the P2500 a good enough amp to power them with?

Thanks

That's plenty of power for NS10s. I use an Adcom amp with less power and it's fine. NS10s aren't the type of monitors you want to crank up anyway. They don't sound "good", they're fatiguing, they're not for judging bass... But they're great for focusing on mids!

Here's an article that puts NS10s into perspective: http://www.emusician.com/news/0766/m...success/146798

[foolhardy]

I purchased a pair of NS10m's from Japan on ebay and the left monitor had a broken woofer, the magnet was broken off of the speaker. The magnet itself wasn't broken and I can, with great difficulty (due to the magnetic attraction), get it almost perfectly aligned back on the speaker but the cone doesn't move which means that it isn't perfectly aligned inside what I think is called the voice coil. Nothing appears to be damaged at all other than the magnet not being on the speaker. Is that fixable at all or should I just trash it?

The seller refunded $100 towards replacing the woofer.

Also, when I uninstalled the bad woofer I found the inside stuffed with yellow insulation. I know WHY people do this but my question is is this "stock" or did someone add the insulation themselves?

Thanks for the help.

[Retrospekta]

Originally Posted by jeremyglover

euro dudes, what speaker cables are you using?

euro dudes???

[Retrospekta]

Hi there, great threat!!

I found somebody who sells the Yamaha NS10M STUDIO + yamaha A100A. Now and only after reading the whole threat, I am not sure if I should get this amp or not... nobody seems to use it... need some urgent help on it as I need to make a decision in a matter of a couple of days.. or they are gone.. thanks a lot

[KennaOkoye]

Jeez we understand what amps you guys like! bryston, bryston, P2200

Now for us regular consumers in the 250 to 500 range.... What's a good amp that does the trick. THANK YOU!!!

[IAMGI Services]

We just purchased a Bryston 4B ST practically brand new for $999 for our NS10M Studio's coming in and I have a specific question for those who have actual experience with this (not just hearsay).

Wanted to know sound comparison specifically between the Bryston 4B ST (NOT 4B OR SST VERSION), Yamaha P2200, and Yamaha PC2002M amps? Like how do these 3 amps compare sonically?

What differences did you hear between these amps, since I still can get a pair of NS10M Studio's WITH a Yamaha PC2002M amp for $1000 for everything thing if I choose.

[MREVOL]

Hey guys, sorry to ask because I did do some searching but im a little confused. If I want to buy a pair from eBay what should I be looking for? Ns10 or the ns10m? What is the general consesus of model to buy? Also, what are a couple good amps to look at that won't break the bank.

Very thankful if someone can save me hours of researching.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by MREVOL

Hey guys, sorry to ask because I did do some searching but im a little confused. If I want to buy a pair from eBay what should I be looking for? Ns10 or the ns10m? What is the general consesus of model to buy? Also, what are a couple good amps to look at that won't break the bank.

Very thankful if someone can save me hours of researching.

See if this article helps you out.

The Yamaha NS10 Story

[MREVOL]

Ok read through 90% of it but still am left with the question. What model do people prefer?? Ns10m??

Also, what power amps get a lot of love for the ns10's from people on here.

Thanks

[Crash]

Originally Posted by MREVOL

Ok read through 90% of it but still am left with the question. What model do people prefer?? Ns10m??

Also, what power amps get a lot of love for the ns10's from people on here.

Thanks

Probably the NS-10M studio, but they all sound fairly odd. You probably can't go wrong with any of them if you are looking to buy a pair. As for amps, it has been discussed quite a bit, eve earlier in this thread. I personally use an old Altec that is way overwatted for the application. A lot swear by the Yamaha P2200.... there are a lot of options that will work for the NS-10.

[MREVOL]

Sorry but is it better to get the older vertical ns10m or newer horizontal ns10m?? Anyone ever a/b them?

[tono]

Originally Posted by MREVOL

Sorry but is it better to get the older vertical ns10m or newer horizontal ns10m?? Anyone ever a/b them?

metoo

[Crash]

During the NS10's 23-year life Yamaha manufactured a number of different versions (or perhaps just used a number of different logos):

The NS10 started life as a (not very successful) hi-fi speaker: and the original NS10M shipped with cloth grilles, hence the grille-mounting sockets you find in the corners of this model (absent from the NS10M Studio that followed).

NS10M: The original domestic hi-fi speaker designed for vertical orientation (its front panel logo reads correctly with the speaker mounted with tweeter above woofer). This is the speaker that was too bright for Bob Clearmountain, leading him to resort to tissue paper over the tweeters — although, of course, it had to be the right kind of tissue paper.
NS10M Studio: Some time after Yamaha got wind of the NS10M's popularity as a nearfield monitor (and around nine years after the original product launch) a version badged 'NS10M Studio' was produced. This version was designed for horizontal orientation (the logo and connection panel text were turned through 90 degrees), incorporated a redesigned tweeter and crossover to address the HF tonal balance issues, featured a more rugged cabinet design without grille-mounting sockets, and had improved connection terminals.

Others: Web searches on NS-10 or NS10 will reveal some variants. There are versions badged NS10M Pro, NS10MX, NS10MC, NS10MT, and a miniature version that was sold in a 5.1 home-theatre package called the NS10MM. I've been unable to establish whether the NS10M Pro and NS10MX offer anything different (my guess is that they don't, but if anybody out there knows anything about them I'd love to hear it), but the NS10MC appears to be an NS10M Studio with a front grille, and the NS10MT appears to be a magnetically shielded and vertically oriented NS10M Studio with symmetrically arranged drivers and, wait for it... a reflex port. Aaaargh!

There are also obviously NS10-inspired products out there, by which I mean nearfield monitors with black cabinets and white cones. In the absence of any independent technical appraisal I'd be very wary of purchasing one on the assumption that it will offer anything like the performance of the genuine article. If you really want a pair of NS10s, eBay is probably your only real option, and you should expect to pay anything up to £350 for a pair in good condition.

I stole all of the above from here:
The Yamaha NS10 Story
This is a cool NS-10m info page as well:
http://www.ns-10.net/

I have never A/B'd them but I am sure there is probably not a lot of difference in them. You either love them or hate them no matter which model of NS-10 it is.

.

[lostwars]

Forget about worrying about which amp to pair them with. Get what you can afford with at least 100w per channel.

Listen to as much music as you possibly can on these monitors. Listen to rock and pop. Listen to metal. Listen to classical. Listen to CDs. Listen to MP3s.

You will be able to hear almost immediately why these monitors were the standard for so many years. You'll also be able to hear bad mixes stand out and great mixes come through with transparency and flavor everyone talks about.

Then listen to your mixes on them. TRY TRY TRY NOT TO IMMEDIATELY MAKE CHANGES BASED ON WHAT YOU HEAR. These monitors are not magic. They don't make a crappy mixer the next CLA. They force balance and discipline. They don't make your mixes better, they make you better.

I know this sounds like more BS but in my opinion you listen to 1000 professional mixes on these monitors, the mixes of your peers (right?). After you have spent this time with them you'll know how they behave, and you will mix accordingly.

Not the worst investment I ever made but the best in terms of teaching me what my weaknesses were.

For the record I bought my pair off ebay a few years ago for $400. Had them paired with a Yamaha A100a until it died then on a whim had to get a ART SLA-1. I made a few mods tot he SLA but its been solid ever since.

Treat your room then get these.

[IAMGI Services]

Originally Posted by MREVOL

Ok read through 90% of it but still am left with the question. What model do people prefer?? Ns10m??

Also, what power amps get a lot of love for the ns10's from people on here.

Thanks

100% NS10M Studios. The vertical ones (NS10M) are brighter/more harsh than the Horizontal ones (NS10M Studios).

Meaning on Horizontal NS10M Studio's, no need for Bob Clearmountain's legendary tissue paper technique.

**Also the words on the NS10M Studio's are printed horizontally and not vertically.

[Kubilay]

Originally Posted by KennaOkoye

Jeez we understand what amps you guys like! bryston, bryston, P2200

Now for us regular consumers in the 250 to 500 range.... What's a good amp that does the trick. THANK YOU!!!

Hafler P3000 Transnova is a GREAT step up from the budget range a la Alesis. Not sure if they still make them? But there's a few on eBay around $300 used. I think I paid $450 or 500 new about 8 years ago, perhaps?

Hafler - Product Details

[Systanatic]

Ns10m Studio with gx7 qsc amp any good?

[Armando Lampara]

Originally Posted by Systanatic

Ns10m Studio with gx7 qsc amp any good?

I'm in the same dilema, I just started to think on buy some monitors.
I use to have some M-audio and now i want to go big, the problem
is that I'm in my room not in a studio and I wonder if i need some near
field or some mid field be cause anyway is just want' em for me I am deciding
between the HS50M if you recomend nearfield or the HS80M if they
can become nearfield.

Any advise

[tono]

I was on vacation at the time i got my NS 10m so no studio work. what I did was listen to a number of several mixes a million times. what i realized was that, music from the 80's really sounded good on these speakers (compared to later production mixes) despite the fact that they are harsh sounding. My favorite was this crappy sounding snare drum in the 80...they sounded good on NS10m. I'm not sure, just my opinion.

[Tube World]

Originally Posted by Andreas G

While I agree that one should get a grip on reality, the never ending controversy with this speakers always is:

They sound horrible but they are stellar for mixing. I like them for mixing.

But with so many monitors out today that were not available when the Yamaha's came out, there are better options. Many monitor designs today have a forward sound to them that allow you to hear the mid freq's so you can adjust the compression and EQ certain tracks well. The good news is you don't need to put tissue on the tweeters and you will actually have much improved bass. I have actually listened to the new Yamaha HS50's Tannoy, and JBL's (in the same price catagory) and all sound much better than the old NS10M's, and provide a more accurate information. Plus they offer a mid range push. Now all this does not take away that you can still use NS10M's which can offer you information on the mid's that they always have done. The point is there are much better solutions in today's world...and it all comes down to your personal perference on taste of monitors.

[Cloudsplitter]

I use the ns10m studio version with a QSC amp and they sound great.

[shortstory]

Wow- lots of opinions on here. I'm going to state my own opinions as well and you can take them as you wish but here goes:

I can't see how the NS10M's vary from the Studio versions aside from one is vertical & one is horizontal (which is just the writing); the drivers (tweeters & woofers) are exactly the same. I am not aware of any structural/cabinet difference.

The drivers will need to replaced at some point anyway, so you may as well do it immediately; some mixers replace the drivers twice a week- I tend to need to replace them once a month.

Do not use NS10M speakers horizontally (unless your mix position moves up & down, which most mixers do not- we move side to side); the idea is to keep your ears in a good relative position to BOTH the tweeter & woofer as you move left to right, so the speakers should be vertical.

The yellow insulation inside is normal & a must.

The spkrs are rated at 150w- so 100w amp (per side by the way- not total) is NOT enough and you will end up replacing your drivers more often in my experience. In fact I recommend 200w per side to help handle the transients efficiently.

As for efficiency- a QSC amp is not a good choice. You should invest in a DC capacitance amp (which QSC is not). The large caps store power for transients.

However- you do not necessarily need a Bryston. You can also buy a very high quality home stereo amp. I use a twin mono-block (which just means two independent mono amplifiers for each side) B&K EX442 amp that has 200 watts each side and it sounds beautiful. So look for home stereo guys selling quality 'stereophile' amps that are minimum 150w, but preferably 200w per side; and you will be happy. The amp is what makes them usable (or not! -there's nothing worse than trying to mix on bad sounding NS10s because of a lame amp or drivers that need replacing).

As to the poster asking about buying on eBay- buy the cheapest you can find and replace the drivers immediately (you have no idea how abused they are by the previous owner)- they are $100 each. As long as the cabinets are not cracked, you're better off with all new drivers as the drivers are easily abused & start to sound crap very quickly.

Lastly- the reality is- setting up a pair of used NS10s is going to run $350-500 for the initial spkrs; plus another $400 assuming all 4 drivers are replaced immediately; and another $600-800 minimum on a quality used home stereo power amp of 200 watts per side. So it's not a cheap installation, and they are not cheap to maintain (you have to replace drivers regularly).

Otherwise you're wasting your time & money because they will sound like crap and you'll blow your drivers repeatedly if you under power them or use a cheap power amp. You'd be better off investing in a different monitoring set-up.

[Andreas G]

Originally Posted by Tube World

But with so many monitors out today that were not available when the Yamaha's came out, there are better options. Many monitor designs today have a forward sound to them that allow you to hear the mid freq's so you can adjust the compression and EQ certain tracks well. The good news is you don't need to put tissue on the tweeters and you will actually have much improved bass. I have actually listened to the new Yamaha HS50's Tannoy, and JBL's (in the same price catagory) and all sound much better than the old NS10M's, and provide a more accurate information. Plus they offer a mid range push. Now all this does not take away that you can still use NS10M's which can offer you information on the mid's that they always have done. The point is there are much better solutions in today's world...and it all comes down to your personal perference on taste of monitors.

It is a personal preference thing. Absolutely!

But I think you should definitely MIX on speakers to judge their qualities as mixing monitors not just listening which sounds better. To me it's about what a speakers causes me to do and how it will translate to other systems. My second pair of speakers are Geithains which I would describe as much more better sounding with a flat response from top to bottom, yet a lot of time I spent on NS10s.

[rksguit]

Originally Posted by foolhardy

I purchased a pair of NS10m's from Japan on ebay and the left monitor had a broken woofer, the magnet was broken off of the speaker. The magnet itself wasn't broken and I can, with great difficulty (due to the magnetic attraction), get it almost perfectly aligned back on the speaker but the cone doesn't move which means that it isn't perfectly aligned inside what I think is called the voice coil. Nothing appears to be damaged at all other than the magnet not being on the speaker. Is that fixable at all or should I just trash it?

The seller refunded $100 towards replacing the woofer.

Also, when I uninstalled the bad woofer I found the inside stuffed with yellow insulation. I know WHY people do this but my question is is this "stock" or did someone add the insulation themselves?

Thanks for the help.

I have heard of this happening during shipping,and just recently read,a seller,almost saying,don't be surprised if the monitors arrive "with the woofer magnets displaced-from the back of the speaker"!!!

I may be in the market for a pair[I previously recorded in a studio that had a pair,and actually thought they sounded ok],and what would one do,if upon delivery,the magnets had ejected?

Anyone?

RK

[Basslik]

Please forgive me, but in lame-man's can someone break this down for me?, I don't understand stand the 90 to 100 watts rms part, and turn down the gain, it seems you would have to turn up the amp's gain to reach 100rms?


Quote:
Under powered distortion is what will kill your speakers the fastest. I would run those speakers with 90 to 100 watts rms into them but you turn down the gain on the amp. This will give you a cleaner signal than cranking the gains on a lower powered amp.

[Basslik]

Originally Posted by Basslik

Please forgive me, but in lame-man's can someone break this down for me?, I don't understand stand the 90 to 100 watts rms part, and turn down the gain, it seems you would have to turn up the amp's gain to reach 100rms?


Quote:
Under powered distortion is what will kill your speakers the fastest. I would run those speakers with 90 to 100 watts rms into them but you turn down the gain on the amp. This will give you a cleaner signal than cranking the gains on a lower powered amp.

OK?

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by Basslik

Please forgive me, but in lame-man's can someone break this down for me?, I don't understand stand the 90 to 100 watts rms part, and turn down the gain, it seems you would have to turn up the amp's gain to reach 100rms?


Quote:
Under powered distortion is what will kill your speakers the fastest. I would run those speakers with 90 to 100 watts rms into them but you turn down the gain on the amp. This will give you a cleaner signal than cranking the gains on a lower powered amp.

The gain controls don't affect how much power the amp has. That power is there no matter where the gains are set. All the gain knob determines is how much voltage it takes to reach a certain output. Thus, if you have a low output on your source, you turn the gain all the way up and if the output is really hot, turn the gain down. Ideally, you should set it up so that the output is set at an optimum gain for signal to noise concerns and then the gain on the amp is adjusted to where it is right for the speakers and listening conditions. This would be so regardless of the power capabilities of the amp.

Where it gets dangerous is that when the amp runs out of power and you turn it up to hear it at a loud level, the amp can start clipping. When the amp clips, there is a period of time where it's telling the speaker to stay at maximum excursion, which is essentially a moment of DC. At that point, the voice coil is just getting a constant voltage and is acting more like a filament of a lightbulb than a voice coil of a speaker. This can melt your voice coil. With a more powerful amp, it won't reach clipping. The danger here is that you send it too much power and the driver exceeds its mechanical limits and goes into overexcursion. If it's really overpowered, you can also light up the voice coil, but usually the coil has flown out of the magnetic gap already and suffered other bad effects.

So, at the end of the day, it's best to have a lot more power than you need, but be careful to use it wisely.

HTH.

[Basslik]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

The gain controls don't affect how much power the amp has. That power is there no matter where the gains are set. All the gain knob determines is how much voltage it takes to reach a certain output. Thus, if you have a low output on your source, you turn the gain all the way up and if the output is really hot, turn the gain down. Ideally, you should set it up so that the output is set at an optimum gain for signal to noise concerns and then the gain on the amp is adjusted to where it is right for the speakers and listening conditions. This would be so regardless of the power capabilities of the amp.

Where it gets dangerous is that when the amp runs out of power and you turn it up to hear it at a loud level, the amp can start clipping. When the amp clips, there is a period of time where it's telling the speaker to stay at maximum excursion, which is essentially a moment of DC. At that point, the voice coil is just getting a constant voltage and is acting more like a filament of a lightbulb than a voice coil of a speaker. This can melt your voice coil. With a more powerful amp, it won't reach clipping. The danger here is that you send it too much power and the driver exceeds its mechanical limits and goes into overexcursion. If it's really overpowered, you can also light up the voice coil, but usually the coil has flown out of the magnetic gap already and suffered other bad effects.

So, at the end of the day, it's best to have a lot more power than you need, but be careful to use it wisely.

HTH.

edwinhurwitz, thank you very much for the explanation, I Got very lucky this morning.
I just picked up a mint YAMAHA P2200 for my NS0's, so what I have leftover is two amps?. One is a highly regarded BGW 250D amp, which users of this amp list includes Warner Brothers, Abbey Road, Universal Studios, Disney World, and I also have a ALESIS RA300.

I want to keep one for my Event unpowered 20/20's, both work great and about the same wattage, I just hoping someone can tell me which one or the other is a better match for my Events?

Thanks and edwinhurwitz

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by Basslik

edwinhurwitz, thank you very much for the explanation, I Got very lucky this morning.
I just picked up a mint YAMAHA P2200 for my NS0's, so what I have leftover is two amps?. One is a highly regarded BGW 250D amp, which users of this amp list includes Warner Brothers, Abbey Road, Universal Studios, Disney World, and I also have a ALESIS RA300.

I want to keep one for my Event unpowered 20/20's, both work great and about the same wattage, I just hoping someone can tell me which one or the other is a better match for my Events?

Thanks and edwinhurwitz

Either should be fine. I would just listen to them and see which seems like the better match. Certainly they both have plenty of power. There are those who will say that one power amp sounds pretty much like another within their rated power. I'm not going to get involved in the dispute beyond saying that my experience tells me that I hear differences. It sounds to me like you've got more of an opportunity than a problem!

[Basslik]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

Either should be fine. I would just listen to them and see which seems like the better match. Certainly they both have plenty of power. There are those who will say that one power amp sounds pretty much like another within their rated power. I'm not going to get involved in the dispute beyond saying that my experience tells me that I hear differences. It sounds to me like you've got more of an opportunity than a problem!

Thank you for your valuable time, and have a great week.