Dangerous LT vs. Dangerous 2 bus regular

[DeyBwah]

Bump, also curious for testimonials.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Disco D

one of these is in my top tier of next purchases. does anyone who have a 2 bus regular wish they could have saved 1300 for something else? does anyone who have the LT wish they had +6 and an output level control?

They both have an output level control.

[DeyBwah]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

They both have an output level control.

So the only difference is the +6 switches? For a difference of around $1200?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by DeyBwah

So the only difference is the +6 switches? For a difference of around $1200?

And all the XLR inputs and outputs vs Dsub.

I'm not the best person to be answering this but from what I remember, there shouldn't be a sound difference.

[DeyBwah]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

And all the XLR inputs and outputs vs Dsub.

I'm not the best person to be answering this but from what I remember, there shouldn't be a sound difference.

Thanks Kenny. Still seems like such a huge jump in price for those minor differences. I'd almost rather go with 2 d-boxes and double my monitoring outputs, headphone cans.

[Kenny Gioia]

Send them an email. I'm sure that they'll be most helpful.

[Chris Muth]

Originally Posted by DeyBwah

So the only difference is the +6 switches? For a difference of around $1200?

Hi Guys,
The differences are subtle but definitely there. They are:

2Buss has a stepped attenuator instead of a potentiometer for level control. The attenuator sounds a bit clearer to me, as it should. It is exactly repeatable and the gain tracking is a bit better than a pot too. It is also quite a bit more expensive.

The 2Bus runs at a higher rail volatage which gives it about 3 dB more headroom, significant for larger setups.

The 2Bus's hardwired XLR connectors save you several terminations from using a breakout cable. Less connections can sound clearer.

The 2Bus is sturdier to flexing and bouncing around. Better if your rig is on the road a lot. The switches on 2Bus are also more sturdy than LT. If a unit is going to take a beating, the 2RU version is definitely the better choice.

The topology, board layout, and materials are similar so they do sound like they are in the same family. For most users, my guess is that people given 2 mixes run through the different boxes with exactly the same setup would not be able to identify which one was which. They both sound fine, just a bit different.

We made the 2RU version first and still offer it because many people prefer that format. The LT version was designed to do basically the same job for a bit less so I pared down the features and made it less expensive to make with the least amount of compromise for those that can't afford a 2Bus or need the 1RU design to fit a particular space.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit and...

Cheerios,

Chris Muth
Electronic Design
Dangerous Music, Inc.

[DeyBwah]

Originally Posted by Chris Muth

Hi Guys,
The differences are subtle but definitely there. They are:

2Buss has a stepped attenuator instead of a potentiometer for level control. The attenuator sounds a bit clearer to me, as it should. It is exactly repeatable and the gain tracking is a bit better than a pot too. It is also quite a bit more expensive.

The 2Bus runs at a higher rail volatage which gives it about 3 dB more headroom, significant for larger setups.

The 2Bus's hardwired XLR connectors save you several terminations from using a breakout cable. Less connections can sound clearer.

The 2Bus is sturdier to flexing and bouncing around. Better if your rig is on the road a lot. The switches on 2Bus are also more sturdy than LT. If a unit is going to take a beating, the 2RU version is definitely the better choice.

The topology, board layout, and materials are similar so they do sound like they are in the same family. For most users, my guess is that people given 2 mixes run through the different boxes with exactly the same setup would not be able to identify which one was which. They both sound fine, just a bit different.

We made the 2RU version first and still offer it because many people prefer that format. The LT version was designed to do basically the same job for a bit less so I pared down the features and made it less expensive to make with the least amount of compromise for those that can't afford a 2Bus or need the 1RU design to fit a particular space.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit and...

Cheerios,

Chris Muth
Electronic Design
Dangerous Music, Inc.

Thanks Chris!

I knew there had to be a reason for the price difference beyond connectors and switches... 3dB more headroom.. now I want the 2Bus! Dang it!!

[DeyBwah]

How would you describe the "difference" in sound, however subtle? Is it just the 3dB difference, or the actual tonal character?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Chris Muth

Hi Guys,
The differences are subtle but definitely there. They are:

2Buss has a stepped attenuator instead of a potentiometer for level control. The attenuator sounds a bit clearer to me, as it should. It is exactly repeatable and the gain tracking is a bit better than a pot too. It is also quite a bit more expensive.

Chris Muth
Electronic Design
Dangerous Music, Inc.

I wonder if it would be worth bypassing that pot for those who never touch it.

I know when I tried the unit, I had little need for it.

Thanks.

[Chris Muth]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for your interest! The extra headroom won't show up unless you are slamming the thing or have dozens of tracks going, pretty hotly. If you were to listen to them side by side in a mastering room, you might think the Big Boy was a touch smoother. This could be because the 2RU uses stacked metal film capacitors as opposed to ceramic caps for IC power rail bypass. Film caps are nice but they are 'through-hole' as opposed to surface mount and add a bit of expense to the overall board cost. It was a bit of work to shave the cost down significantly without screwing it up! I think I did OK there. All the other items I listed before also contribute to the sound. Every item is unique and adds a distinct character to the sound. Such is the way of gear!

Having said that, I believe that the differences are very subtle and someone using either unit will get the results desired without pining for the other one.

You could bypass the pot. My reason for not bothering to do so is that it is nice to get the level to the A/D just right and when your mix is all done and good, you may wish to turn the master up or down a bit to hit the converter (or compressor, etc.) just right. This ability would outweigh getting rid of the pot, in my opinion. It is a Bourns high performance unit and not cheap in its own right...

I try my best to design stuff that you will really like and that will last a long time, regardless of which unit it is.

Thanks again for your interest! cm

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Chris Muth

You could bypass the pot. My reason for not bothering to do so is that it is nice to get the level to the A/D just right and when your mix is all done and good, you may wish to turn the master up or down a bit to hit the converter (or compressor, etc.) just right. This ability would outweigh getting rid of the pot, in my opinion. It is a Bourns high performance unit and not cheap in its own right...

I try my best to design stuff that you will really like and that will last a long time, regardless of which unit it is.

Thanks again for your interest! cm

Oh. Yeah. I totally see the purpose of the pot. I wouldn't suggest that you didn't make it with the unit. I was just wondering for guys like me (who don't use the pot) if there would be a benefit (sonically) to not having it.

Although, the way around that is to pull all the faders back in the mix. Which would be OK if mixing ITB, but should change the way this unit sounds. So, it's probably best to just use this pot and hit the summing box the way that it sounds best.

I'm using the Folcrom with a TG2 mic preamp so my master volume is the preamp. Which I adjust to 0 in, 0 out so that recall is always perfect. Which is also how I set up your unit in my testing.

Thanks for the explanation.

[-JK-]

Originally Posted by Chris Muth

The 2Bus's hardwired XLR connectors save you several terminations from using a breakout cable.

Hi there! Sorry for being a little off-topic, but what do you mean with terminations? The number of connections in the signal path? That would only be one more with the LT, wouldn't it?

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by DeyBwah

How would you describe the "difference" in sound, however subtle? Is it just the 3dB difference, or the actual tonal character?

I reviewed both both units back in 2004 and reading my article now I remembered the 2bus sounding slightly more "open", but the difference was very subtle compared to the 2bus LT.
Both units sounded great and offers a big improvement compared to working ITB. Generally producing more dynamics, wider stereo panorama, more defined mid, punchier lows and more open high-end. Basically more of everything. :D
Remember that the digital converters plays a pretty big role in the setup and you need decent DACs and a really good ADC to capture all the benefits of analogue summing.

The +6dB buttons on the bigger unit comes in handy for creating extra headroom in the digital domain by for example adding 6dB on the drum bus. That way the digital outputs of the drum bus can be set 6dB lower rendering more even digital outputs.

If your DACs have individual volume trims then it's possible to achieve similar results by boosting just the drum bus outputs, I've found +4dB to be a good starting point. Lowering the "effects" outputs by 10dB evens out the digital outputs even more and might add a little extra stereo width and definition to the FXs.

I didn't buy a Dangerous unit back then but it made me go back to an analogue mixing console and later a summing box, Vintage Design SU1. But I'm thinking of getting a really transparent summing box as well, maybe a 2bus LT.


Cheers
Frederick

My Studio

[Sam an huel]

The +6dB buttons on the bigger unit comes in handy for creating extra headroom in the digital domain

After reading that message by Paul frindle it sounds like a really good idea and a nice feature.

PSW Recording Forums: Reason In Audio => DAW & Desks: Is ANYBODY actually still mixing on their desk?

[Pro-Audio-LA]

One thing to consider is the added cost of cabling up the 2Bus given that it is XLR. This is not much, but definitely something to consider. Also easier to plug and play with just 2 DB25's for the 16 inputs. They both sound fantastic, though!

Jared

[DMichaelJohnson]

The Dangerous "inter family" integration is pretty slick too. I am impressed with how nicely the 2 bus LT integrates with the D Box: 8/16/24 summing channels depending upon how converter inclined one is. The thought of each piece's design is brilliant enough in its own right, but the integration of one piece with the next...at whatever level one enters the Dangerous arena...is just incredible. Great stuff...

[wave rider]

These examples of the LT and the regular 2 buss sound very different.

Analog Summing Mixers - YouTube

Is this normal? I like the regular 2 buss in this example a lot better

[wave rider]

Bump

[TjTminds]

Originally Posted by Chris Muth

Hi Guys,
The differences are subtle but definitely there. They are:

2Buss has a stepped attenuator instead of a potentiometer for level control. The attenuator sounds a bit clearer to me, as it should. It is exactly repeatable and the gain tracking is a bit better than a pot too. It is also quite a bit more expensive.

The 2Bus runs at a higher rail volatage which gives it about 3 dB more headroom, significant for larger setups.

The 2Bus's hardwired XLR connectors save you several terminations from using a breakout cable. Less connections can sound clearer.

The 2Bus is sturdier to flexing and bouncing around. Better if your rig is on the road a lot. The switches on 2Bus are also more sturdy than LT. If a unit is going to take a beating, the 2RU version is definitely the better choice.

The topology, board layout, and materials are similar so they do sound like they are in the same family. For most users, my guess is that people given 2 mixes run through the different boxes with exactly the same setup would not be able to identify which one was which. They both sound fine, just a bit different.

We made the 2RU version first and still offer it because many people prefer that format. The LT version was designed to do basically the same job for a bit less so I pared down the features and made it less expensive to make with the least amount of compromise for those that can't afford a 2Bus or need the 1RU design to fit a particular space.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit and...

Cheerios,

Chris Muth
Electronic Design
Dangerous Music, Inc.

you've sold me on the 2bus lt!

[DMichaelJohnson]

A very, very happy 2 bus lt user here... As I've posted earlier, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the Dangerous stuff. I currently have the D Box connected to the lt and recently got the bax... Customer service and their personal reponsiveness is aweome too.