Mellotron: the greatest thing ever!

[Norman Lindsey]

yes mellotron is cool but noisey . i used one years ago for a session . brought a tear to my eye .

[Bob Ross]

I agree whole-heartedly with the OP! Mellotron is one of the most distinctive sounds in rock music; something about the space it occupies gives it away instantly. It doesn't sound like anything other than what it is, but man is it a cool sound.

Been thinking of grabbing the GForce M-Tron virtual plug-in (because I don't have any room for a real Mellotron, thank you). Anyone tried these...and liked them?

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Been thinking of grabbing the GForce M-Tron virtual plug-in (because I don't have any room for a real Mellotron, thank you). Anyone tried these...and liked them?

As a Mellotron, Birotron and Novatron afficiando and owner for 25+ years, I gotta say...

Nothing is like the real deal.

I could go on about it for a day.

So I won't.

Best regards,

SM.

[eligit]

Originally Posted by slipperman

As a Mellotron, Birotron and Novatron afficiando and owner for 25+ years, I gotta say...

Nothing is like the real deal.

I could go on about it for a day.

So I won't.

Best regards,

SM.

like i was sayin, i can't image a synth that could possibly sound like this error prone extremely eccentric mechanical/analog device.....it is just it's own thing.

[echorec]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Been thinking of grabbing the GForce M-Tron virtual plug-in (because I don't have any room for a real Mellotron, thank you). Anyone tried these...and liked them?

I don´t own a Mellotron but I have used them quite a few times. I must say that the M-Tron is very useable, although not as wonderful as the real deal.

[cfjis]

It is true....
I've yet to hear a synth really nail the Mellotron.
Such a cool and funky instrument.... especially with JPJ behind it.

[max cooper]

I got to see the Mellotron in Jimmy Iovine's office once. I woulda paid even more attention had I known at the time where it had been!

Also got to check out Jon Brion's Chamberlin at Ocean Way. Super cool machine, that!

If I could own a working example of either, I could be happy.

[daede]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

Been thinking of grabbing the GForce M-Tron virtual plug-in (because I don't have any room for a real Mellotron, thank you). Anyone tried these...and liked them?

For $99, I think it's about as comprehensive and useful as you're gonna get.

Short of buying the real deal, I don't think you'll find anything better.

[gainreduction]

There is (or was...) an Akai format CD-rom, "Mellotron", that has every key of every sound recorded. Every note/sample is full 8 seconds long and when it ends you hear when the tape stops. Most patches you can select tuned (great) or original... (close to unuseable). Sounds like the real deal because the Mellotron you can sample 'coz it's.., yeah.., samples anyway

Best way of having a mellotron in the box. Buy it, it's great !

[Disco D]

I got to use a real mellotron yesterday for the first time. while it didn't end up on the final track, it was still pretty ****ing incredible. Then we ran the output of it thru the filters on an Arp 2600. Yow.

[jomo1234]

The AKAI format CD mentioned is the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD....probably the best repro of it out there. With the right synth technique you can really create some very convincing tracks. If you're REALLY desperate for the real thing, go to mellotron.com and look into the remakes. I HAVE tried one, and they are actually reliable and much quieter than the originals....now if they would only remake a reliable Optigan, I'd be REALLY happy.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by slipperman

As a Mellotron, Birotron and Novatron afficiando and owner for 25+ years

I didn't think *anyone* besides Rick Wakeman was a Birotron owner.

[thenoodle]

Yeah, I'm an owner too since 1973....Let's see...

jammed tapes, cleaning the 35 heads, using the (ha-ha) tuning knob constantly as you play, not daring to run the 1/4" output anywhere but straight to a compressor first, the cost of each roll of replacement tape loops, stringing the loop on that idiot rack and using those two idiot screws to fasten the tape to the end of the rack, having to randomly lift fingers off notes and then try not to hit the same note again until at least 1 second later to give the tape time to rewind, jammed tapes, tapes gouging midway under the roller...oh did I mention jammed tapes?

The best Mellotron idea I ever came up with was to sample my racks a couple of decades ago and then put a lamp on top of the mellotron and stick it in a corner of the studio. Oh and I always thought my idea to put rolling casters on the two legs was a great one too.

Once I HAD my racks sampled, then it was "ahh, the best Mellotron is a sampled mellotron". Which is true. The samples ARE the real thing. I look over at the lonely mellotron/lamp table and think "no way am I gonna go plug that in again". I do not miss those days at all.

The libraries..some of them..are the way to go....and none of those "pre-compressed, "pre-tuned" libraries that suck all the magic out of the sound.

[Dopamine]

Does anyone know how the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD (used w/ a soft sampler) would compare to the M-Tron?

[84K]

Go to:

www.mellotron.com

they sell a great sample CD. They also remake the m400. We are ordering one for a new studio!!!

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

Once I HAD my racks sampled, then it was "ahh, the best Mellotron is a sampled mellotron". Which is true. The samples ARE the real thing. I look over at the lonely mellotron/lamp table and think "no way am I gonna go plug that in again". I do not miss those days at all.

The libraries..some of them..are the way to go....and none of those "pre-compressed, "pre-tuned" libraries that suck all the magic out of the sound.

What about the new and improved Mellotron?

http://www.mellotron.com/mkvi.htm

[thenoodle]

Here's the problem with the "new and Improved" Mellotron (besides the $5,200 price)...

The mechanism is the same rack-roller-head as always. New/improved probably refers to the sound path or electronics..which only goes so far..and..as one who has seen this before, the "real" Mellotron keeps getting re-introduced every decade. There was one in the 80's, one in the 90's..and now this. But they're always the same mechanical structure.

So as I say, here's the problem...

The individual tapes/notes will often-occasionally-sometimes jam. Eventually to where a tape..one note for example..will get caught in a way where it will "crinkle". WHICH..puts a crease in the tape..and even if in one spot, the crinkle will cause the tape to forever glitch-garble-or otherwise sound messed up like a piece of tape will when eaten by the thing playing it (remember cassettes when they'd jam?).

SO....you then have to live with one less note (ok, I've got 34 more) or buy a new tape loop to replace the crinkled one.

Which costs how much?

The "new & improved" mellotron site doesn't say. It lists entire racks etc, but not individual spools of tapes...from what I see. So how much will that cost? It used to cost me $25-$30 per tape..and that was thirty years ago. Remember, this isn't your run-of-the-mill track format. It's three-track tape. An odd animal, even in the early days.

It could be that the new/improved Mellotron guys don't really want to print the cost of replacement spools....it's like printer ink. THAT'S where the big bucks are. You crinkle a Mellotron tape, ya gotta buy a new 3-track loop. Cha-ching (for the manufacturer). And those tapes WILL screw up....often. I guarantee it.

I kept my Mellotron very clean and adjusted...just like I did on 2" tape machines. But the technology is tape-roller-heads which = jams. In it's heyday with me, I had to order two or three replacement notes every couple of months. It adds up. Mellotrons have to eat (like your kids). And what do they eat? Tape.

I don't miss those days. My mellotron and it's "now-safe" samples will never jam on me again.

[monsterz]

Originally Posted by gainreduction

There is (or was...) an Akai format CD-rom, "Mellotron", that has every key of every sound recorded. Every note/sample is full 8 seconds long and when it ends you hear when the tape stops. Most patches you can select tuned (great) or original... (close to unuseable). Sounds like the real deal because the Mellotron you can sample 'coz it's.., yeah.., samples anyway

Best way of having a mellotron in the box. Buy it, it's great !

The M-Tron, if I am not mistaken, also uses 8 second samples of every note from every tape bank. Its a really great VSTi, enabling access to a massive library of Mellotron sounds as well as sounds from The Chamberlin, Birotron and Mellotron MK2. Highly reccomended.

[RCM - Ronan]

Having mixed a lot of tracks with real and fake mellotrons (including old King Crimson) I have yet hear any of the sample versions to sit in a track or have the same soul as the real deal. Some of the sampled things are OK, but they never seem to have the bigness or spirit of a real mellotron.

[max cooper]

Anyone seen the Memotron?

http://www.manikin-electronic.com/en/index.html

[TedF]

I tried to lift one once.......

I've still got a bad back!

[Kenny Gioia]

Nothing like the real thing.

But is anything?

[eligit]

interesting discussion. it's looks pretty much like i thought. these things are a gigantic pain in the ass in a working studio. but even you sample users probably find that besides the practical angle (which is HUGE) that it's like comparing digital to analog only more so. because it is the same things that make that mellotron vibe that make it about to malfunction..i just love the grit and semi-out of tuneness. and then when it goes totally out of wack it's like comic relief. it's like this funky organic creature, all those tape players running along more or less together....

[Sounds Great]

It is funny how sometimes things that are a pain in the ass are still worth the effort. I find this to be the case quite often.

[Jim Williams]

Used them a lot in the early 80's. I got pretty good at the maintanence thing. Fresh tapes, demagnatized heads and plenty of head cleaner would get you through the session. Also, don't overlook the experienced operator. Just like a Hammond organ, you need to live with it for some time to get good at using it.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[thenoodle]

We actually had a fairly long Mellotron thread going on at Northern last week. For me, having used both real and samples, the thing is..imo...there is no difference between the two unless the samples have been monkeyed with to "clean them up". A raw mellotron sample (warbling, 8 second length etc) will be the same as hitting a key on a real wooden mellotron. There is NO dynamic control on a mellotron. No volume differences if you hit keys softer or harder. A raw sample is the same....exactly the same.

The other condition is playing technique. And recording/routing technique.

From watching/hearing newbies play mellotron parts, there are a number of auditory cues that the player "ain't playin the real thing". But this is all wrapped up in technique, not NECESSARILY where the sounds are coming from.

For example, if you blindfold someone who is relatively familar with real mellotrons and you have someone come in and trigger samples.....

If that person plunks his/her hands down on an 8-note chord and the notes don't randomly warble...AND the notes hold out longer than 8 seconds or so...BINGO...NOT REAL MELLOTRON....OBVIOUSLY SAMPLES.

BUT...keep that expert blindfolded, and play those samples in the spider technique (like real Mellotrons HAD to be played) AND be triggering raw samples....THE EXPERT CAN'T TELL. Well..as long as you don't have him in earshot of where he/she would expect to hear the "zipping" noise as the tapes rewind down in the cabinet.

And finally...run the sampled mellotron sounds through a mono compressor ..then ddl..raw sound hard left...60ms hard right..through a reverb with 2-4sec reverb...play parts in spider technique...Viola...you'll fool the expert again.

It's playing technique and the way the samples are "left alone" in their initial state that will produce a beautiful, magically flawed, authentic mellotron part...from samples.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

I didn't think *anyone* besides Rick Wakeman was a Birotron owner.

You sayin' it's a BIG FISH STORY!!!?????

DON'T MAKE ME FIND AND KILL YOU.

HOHOHO.

Nope.

It's true.

I had Birotron #007(of the 11 total that were originally constructed), on and off again, for almost 2 decades. It was bought and sold between the same 4 guys multiple times in that time period. I personally used it on a ton of records and live performances in that time.

The one we had was originally made for Klaus Schultze, and was brought back to the US in 1979 by his former assistant Craig Wuest. I was recording it and working on it within a week of the time it hit the States.

In fact, some my earliest memories of studio work revolve around that box, and, hilariously, include the first time I ever heard the term "Boat Anchor" applied to a peice of equipment.... seems my old boss HATED the thing with a passion, as it had a continuous low level 60hz hum on the output and was notorius for being very finicky in a host of other respects.

Just letting ya know.

Best regards and wishes,

SM.