Anybody here close-mic cymbals instead of using overheads?

bionic brown · 30th August 2009

I've always worked with overheads until recently when I had to mix a session that only had cymbal mics rather than overheads.

I was rather impressed by the sound. The music was an old school r&b / al green type of sound. I realized that close-miking of the cymbals took out a lot of the room reverb, which lent itself to the genre style anyway.

The drums were also greatly dampened. Everything was super dry. After running the drums through a 15ips impulse response and some compression, I got some really fat, punchy and dry sounds.

I had to do some minor eq on the crash, rolling off the low frequencies and that worked out well. I panned the crash left and the ride right. Really good separation between the mics. I guess had I been going for an open sound, the close mics on the cymbals wouldn't have worked, but for this particular style, it worked out really well. The bleed from all the mics combined gave me enough "glue" to bring the kit together. (I would upload an excerpt, but the band would kill me).

I want to try out this close-miking on cymbals. I've heard that dynamics or ribbons are best because the transients and high end would be distorted if using condensers. I'm not sure what the engineer that tracked the session used on cymbals, but it sounded cool. I'm thinking about trying some nifty old SM57's on cymbals on my next session.

Any suggestions?

dbbubba · 31st August 2009

I once did a metal project where Metalblade Records shipped in some engineer from L.A.
This guy mic'd all of the cymbals (four.)
He used my 414s and maybe some AKG 451s (I just recall the 414s flat and low.)
I liked the sound to a degree.

I tried it later, but because we had such a great room I didn't want to loose it.
The close cymbal mics require a really nice cymbal set.

I also recall Vinnie Paul of Pantera having some under the cymbal mics that some company had given him.
I did a live to radio mix of the band right when their first release came out and he wanted me to try them.
THANK GOD I had my usual SM81s up as regular OHs!
I remember that the under cymbal mics were VERY harsh and clangy!

bionic brown · 31st August 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbbubba

I once did a metal project where Metalblade Records shipped in some engineer from L.A.
This guy mic'd all of the cymbals (four.)
He used my 414s and maybe some AKG 451s (I just recall the 414s flat and low.)
I liked the sound to a degree.

I tried it later, but because we had such a great room I didn't want to loose it.
The close cymbal mics require a really nice cymbal set.

I also recall Vinnie Paul of Pantera having some under the cymbal mics that some company had given him.
I did a live to radio mix of the band right when their first release came out and he wanted me to try them.
THANK GOD I had my usual SM81s up as regular OHs!
I remember that the under cymbal mics were VERY harsh and clangy!

Yeah, I don't think I could go for the under the cymbal mics. I know that harmonics radiate differently from the cymbal when struck. The odd harmonics go horizontal and the even harmonics go vertical. So you have to strike a balance along that arc.

But distance is a factor, I'm guessing 8-12 inches will do the trick without the cymbals having a phasey, doppler effect from movement. I just need to know that dynamics will be the best choice.

Mertmo · 31st August 2009

I've done this a bunch, I like it.

But it's usually my kit which is simple. Mostly what I've done is U87 on left side for hat and crash together. TLM 103 on the right for the ride cymbal. Most times it sounds
pretty damn fantastic to me.

Sadly, I do not have access to those mics anymore.

bionic brown · 31st August 2009

Yeah, I tested it out.

I miked the cymbals individually and put up X-Y stereo overheads as well. I found that at 8-12 inches away, the crash did give me a "wavy" effect (the ride was fine). The overhead had a very smooth sustain. But honestly, the close miking works for the style. I think I'm going to adopt this technique when working on funk/r&b projects.

allencollins · 31st August 2009

Ive done it but don't like it. The attack is too aggressive and often too metallic
sounding. Though I have not experimented extensively. I'm sure with the
right mic and placement it could sound good.

Mike Brown · 31st August 2009

I always mic the hat and ride (usually with KM84i's) as "just in case" for the mix engineer while tracking. You *really* should be picky about the sound and phase with the overheads... but I hardly ever have to use them in a mix.

I have done just cymbal micing before but it only works out really well when you have a drummer who will play all the drums then do an overdub with just the cymbals. Then I edit out the "other" mics when their cymbals arn't struck so its just close mic & rooms.

30th August 2009	#1
bionic brown Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 181 Thread Starter	Anybody here close-mic cymbals instead of using overheads? I've always worked with overheads until recently when I had to mix a session that only had cymbal mics rather than overheads. I was rather impressed by the sound. The music was an old school r&b / al green type of sound. I realized that close-miking of the cymbals took out a lot of the room reverb, which lent itself to the genre style anyway. The drums were also greatly dampened. Everything was super dry. After running the drums through a 15ips impulse response and some compression, I got some really fat, punchy and dry sounds. I had to do some minor eq on the crash, rolling off the low frequencies and that worked out well. I panned the crash left and the ride right. Really good separation between the mics. I guess had I been going for an open sound, the close mics on the cymbals wouldn't have worked, but for this particular style, it worked out really well. The bleed from all the mics combined gave me enough "glue" to bring the kit together. (I would upload an excerpt, but the band would kill me). I want to try out this close-miking on cymbals. I've heard that dynamics or ribbons are best because the transients and high end would be distorted if using condensers. I'm not sure what the engineer that tracked the session used on cymbals, but it sounded cool. I'm thinking about trying some nifty old SM57's on cymbals on my next session. Any suggestions?

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31st August 2009	#2
dbbubba Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 7,099	I once did a metal project where Metalblade Records shipped in some engineer from L.A. This guy mic'd all of the cymbals (four.) He used my 414s and maybe some AKG 451s (I just recall the 414s flat and low.) I liked the sound to a degree. I tried it later, but because we had such a great room I didn't want to loose it. The close cymbal mics require a really nice cymbal set. I also recall Vinnie Paul of Pantera having some under the cymbal mics that some company had given him. I did a live to radio mix of the band right when their first release came out and he wanted me to try them. THANK GOD I had my usual SM81s up as regular OHs! I remember that the under cymbal mics were VERY harsh and clangy!

31st August 2009	#4
Mertmo Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 942	I've done this a bunch, I like it. But it's usually my kit which is simple. Mostly what I've done is U87 on left side for hat and crash together. TLM 103 on the right for the ride cymbal. Most times it sounds pretty damn fantastic to me. Sadly, I do not have access to those mics anymore.

31st August 2009	#6
allencollins 3 + infractions, forum membership suspended. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rosedale Cemetery Singing Beach, MA Posts: 4,873	Ive done it but don't like it. The attack is too aggressive and often too metallic sounding. Though I have not experimented extensively. I'm sure with the right mic and placement it could sound good.

31st August 2009	#7
Mike Brown Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 3,188	I always mic the hat and ride (usually with KM84i's) as "just in case" for the mix engineer while tracking. You really should be picky about the sound and phase with the overheads... but I hardly ever have to use them in a mix. I have done just cymbal micing before but it only works out really well when you have a drummer who will play all the drums then do an overdub with just the cymbals. Then I edit out the "other" mics when their cymbals arn't struck so its just close mic & rooms.