Analog mix bus compressor worth it for digital mixing?

[musictech]

I used to like mixing with a little bit of mix bus compression, back in the analog days at the big studio I worked at, and even in the early days of digital when I still mixed through analog consoles (using Sony 3324/48 or even ADATs as the digital tape decks).

Now days, in my project studio at home I'm using Nuendo as my DAW and using UAD-1 plugs quite a bit on individual tracks and groups during mixing, but am doing the actual mix bus summing through my Yamaha O2R96 board, which I like. BUT, I'm missing being able to strap a decent compressor across the mix bus while mixing.

I'm mostly doing pop, RnB, Hip-Hop, and even some modern jazz. No classical music or purely acoustic music for the most part.

I'm happy with my mixes and am usually OK with the way things turn out by saving all mix buss compression for the mastering stage... but, there are times when I feel I need to go back and tweak the mix after compression and limiting at the mastering stage doesn't give me quite what I had in mind.

I'm currently not interested in doing multiple busses and analog summing that way. Don't want to invest in that many converters and a summing box and such for my small project studio (only track individual instruments here, and use bigger studios in the area when I need to record drums or large groups).

So, I'm considering what it would be like to get one nice analog stereo compressor that I could use both for tracking and for a mix bus compressor, and then upgrade to some nicer A/D and D/A coverters and be able to run out through those during mixing and record back into the DAW.

Do you think it's worth it? Or will the extra D/A and A/D conversion negate (or overwhelm) any possible benefits of that process?

If it is worth it, what would be a good mix buss compressor for my project studio for the types of music I mostly do?

Anyone else doing this?

Or maybe I should try mixing totally in the box in Nuendo and using something like the UAD-1 Fairchild for mix buss compression?

Steve

[bpatural]

Use a good analog compressor on your buss...it helps a lot. I put a C2 on mine and liked it so much that i started using outboard compressors for everything i could on my PT mixes. The 2buss compressor makes it sound much more exciting to me.
-brian

[u b k]

absolutely... more analog high end is better.

the best part of using an analog mix comp is hitting the transformers just right. can't get that in the box, not even close.


gregoire
del ubik

[CorkyTart]

Even though you dont want a summing box, you should get one anyway. I recently got a mixdream and its amazing. I go out of Nuendo, hit the mixdream and if I want to put comp, eq and mlimiter on the master bus (aka mastering) it takes the mix from sounding really good to the holymother****er level.

[musictech]

The lust for those boxes is definitely there.... if I read too much here on GS, I just want to buy more stuff I can't justify quite yet.

I'd love to save up for a summing box some day to see how much difference that makes... but, I think just stereo in and out with a good mix bus compressor would be a good start.

Which compressors are you liking for what types of sounds/music?

From the limited amounts I've read, I would lean towards the C2 or maybe the 1968 Merc Edition?

Thanks!

Steve

[TedF]

I have to say Steve, that once you try a good optical compressor on your mix bus, you will want to leave it in circuit for everything. It's not so much the obvious compression effect, it's more the 'glueing' effect that you get with even very slight compression if it's done properly. (There has been another thread on this one.)


I regularly do listening tests on what's available in the way of compressors in the digital world, and while a lot of the so called 'emulations' do sound like the originals, they don't have the warming and glueing effect of good analogue; the reasons are many and complex; mostly to do with what happens to the analogue signal during transients.

The idea of mixing outside the box has to be a good one for several reasons, and this use of an analogue compressor on the mix is one of them.

Ted Fletcher
www.tfpro.com

[SnakeCained]

Hi I have a very similar set up with Nuendo and under version 3 I insert a SSL G384 on the 2 buss which raises the game quite a bit!!

I would love to try a Culture Phoenix for the valve feel too......

Oh and a Chandler TG!

and while we're there how about a 33609 from Neve.

[RoundBadge]

It's worth it..
like Mr. Fletcher said ..glue etc..
its nice to add some nice analog flavor through a real bus comp..a little compression can go a long way for a lot of stuff
If I can help it,I'll never use a plug in on the final 2 mix ever agian,especially L2 type limiters.Yuck.I'll let the ME get it louder.
Hardware all the way
many,many choices,many lovely flavors!
I need more!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by SnakeCained

I would love to try a Culture Phoenix for the valve feel too......

Highly recommended.
I've been mixing through one all night..

can't wait to get my mits on the Shadow Hills one.

[jdunn]

So I can have your Phoenix when the Shadow Hills arrives?

[Jay Kahrs]

I haven't found many plug-in compressors that are serviceable, let alone amazing enough that I'd want to run my whole mix through one.

Besides, if you go back to analog for a 2-mix compressor you can record the mix at a higher sampling rate like 24/96, and send that to the mastering lab. That alone is usually worth the benefits in tone and extra data.

[musictech]

Thanks for all the great replies guys!

I'm convinced that I need to give it a try, now just have to convince the boss (wife) that it's something I really need, and start setting aside some extra cash in the gear fund.

Would the Drawmer 1969 be a good choice for this? Figured I could use it for tracking as well since it also has pres.

I don't think I'll ever be able to convince the boss I need to spend $4000 or so for a summing box (let alone the extra high-end D/A converters needed), but would something cheaper like the Folcrom unit going through the Drawmer 1969, or even the Great River NP2V, be still a noticeable improvement?

The Nicerizer looks great and I've been reading all your comments about it, but don't think I can justify something like that for quite some time (but my own product lines I produce are growing, and so it may happen sooner than I think).

Is it a HUGE difference between something simple like the Nicerizer and the Folcrom? Has anybody tried out the new Speck 16 stereo channel line mixer which can be used as a DAW summer? That's very reasonably priced for that many channels.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by jdunn

So I can have your Phoenix when the Shadow Hills arrives?

[u b k]

Originally Posted by musictech

...would something cheaper like the Folcrom unit going through the Drawmer 1969, or even the Great River NP2V, be still a noticeable improvement?

Is it a HUGE difference between something simple like the Nicerizer and the Folcrom?

"yes" to the first, "sort of" to the second.

lots of us here talk about 'vast' differences, things being 'not subtle', the improvement 'enormous', and they are... but only within the microcosm of engineering and extremely discerning ears.

the tone of the nicerizer was something i'd been chasing for what felt like a very long time; other products did the summing thing beautifully, but they lacked a specific old school vibe. when i found it, when i heard it, i was floored. it is not something your average listener would ever be able to hear. it is something your average engineer probably could; it is something your above-average engineer would find very apparent. whether anyone likes it is a different story, but the difference is there and how big it is depends solely on your ears and tastes.

as i so often repeat in these waters, this is a game of inches where the inches add up. one piece of gear may make only a subtle difference; 6 pieces of similar ilk and the difference is hefty. a couple of racks full and manna falls from the heavens.


gregoire
del ubik

[echorec]

I mostly mix on a console but sometimes I need to mix ITB for various reasons.

This is what I do to make it less in-the-boxy (with great results):

1. Send the mix out and then back in to my UA converter through a Neve 33609 (early discrete version, very highly recommended - much nicer than the SSL comp).

2. Use an outboard reverb or two (PCM60 & 70). Aux send from the DAW and the returns back in the computer.

[Mystical]

If you have some nice 2ch pre-amps then check out the fulcrom... it's pretty afordable.

[jho]

YES

[musictech]

Thanks again for all the great replies.

So far, the only stereo mic pre I have is the RNP. I have the GR MP1NV, but it's only one channel, so it won't help with the Folcrom.

What would be a good complement to the GR pre-amp with a different sound that I could use for tracking as well as for make up gain for the Folcrom at some point in the future? Or, should I just get a second MP1NV? (are MP1NV units fairly well matched?)

Steve

[jho]

Originally Posted by musictech

What would be a good complement to the GR pre-amp with a different sound that I could use for tracking as well as for make up gain for the Folcrom

Flamingo