SE reflection filter with 44 BX

[pianodano]

I have bought the reflection filter and intend to try it with my RC44bx. I would guess that mic weighs in at maybe 8 to 10 pounds. The microphone is flawless and in new condition hence I am very concerned with the possiblity of the stand tipping over. The heaviest stand I have is a Atlas studio boom stand. But because of the way the mic is supported on the fillter which changes the center of gravity I don't trust even the cast iron Altas stand. Any suggestions for using the SERF with a really heavy mic ?

Danny

[badboymusic]

I hang mine upside down.

[radiospace]

I've got a 44bx up on a Reflexion filter right now. I'm not the least bit worried about the stand tipping over. What I'm worried about is the whole byzantine Reflexion filter contraption coming off the stand... or even the metal failing in the arm that the mic sits on.

[radiospace]

Slightly off topic, but how close would you dare let a vocalist sing to a 44 BX (with a Stedman pop filter in place)?

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by radiospace

Slightly off topic, but how close would you dare let a vocalist sing to a 44 BX (with a Stedman pop filter in place)?

I have a Steadman also and have found that somewhere between 8 to 12 inches works. There is no proximity effect with a 44bx so there is no point in getting closer that I am aware of.

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by radiospace

I've got a 44bx up on a Reflexion filter right now. I'm not the least bit worried about the stand tipping over. What I'm worried about is the whole byzantine Reflexion filter contraption coming off the stand... or even the metal failing in the arm that the mic sits on.

. What's your verdict on the SERF ? Does it help a bit to keep room sound out?

[radiospace]

Originally Posted by pianodano

. What's your verdict on the SERF ? Does it help a bit to keep room sound out?

I didn't test with/without so it's hard to say how much the SERF was doing, but I wasn't getting a ton of room so it must have been doing something. More importantly, it didn't collapse.

FWIW I have it on a boom stand, but (obviously) am not using the boom. Instead the boom is completely retracted and pointing straight up in such a way that the counterweight is about knee-high and exactly opposite the SERF. With this arrangement it acts as a balance to the weight of the microphone, which is perhaps why the stand tipping over was not at the top of my concerns.

I will be doing some more recording with the setup later today and I'll try to test with/without the filter and will let you know if anything is learned.

Sandbag!

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by radiospace

I didn't test with/without so it's hard to say how much the SERF was doing, but I wasn't getting a ton of room so it must have been doing something. More importantly, it didn't collapse.

FWIW I have it on a boom stand, but (obviously) am not using the boom. Instead the boom is completely retracted and pointing straight up in such a way that the counterweight is about knee-high and exactly opposite the SERF. With this arrangement it acts as a balance to the weight of the microphone, which is perhaps why the stand tipping over was not at the top of my concerns.

I will be doing some more recording with the setup later today and I'll try to test with/without the filter and will let you know if anything is learned.

Thanks for the info and please keep me posted on what you think.

FWIW, I tried a bit of a test vocal track last night using the SERF, 44bx and a UA6176. Originally I was pretty sure that the 44 wasn't going to work in this particular song so I had 4 or 5 other mics to try also. But man. I just have to say the SERF keeps (most of) the reflections out of the vocal and what a nice sound I was left with from the 44 thru the 6176. For sure there is some noise because of the amount of gain required on a 44bx but I can get that out during the quiet passages, no problem.

Finally, a intimate vocal sound that just sits right in the mix, without a concentrated or grating point source type of sound and all those reflections. That's something I have never been able to convincingly achieve with any amount eq, reverb or anything else.

It seems vocal does not easily get overbearing in order to be able to understand every word and even if it does get a bit loud during a part or expressive word or phrase, it doesn't become objectionable at all. The vocal does not seem to require an inordinate amount of work, ie punches and takes to sound right either . It just gives a pleasing sound as is and unaltered and fills out the sound field like it a vocal should. It just works, imho. Amazing.

I put the SERF on a On Stage stand with the 3 big fold out legs and the 44 on a Atlas studio stand. The Atlas stand can tuck right under the other stand and allows for a lot of positioning. I had considered a couple sand bags but I was worried about sand leaking out onto the hardwood floors.

[radiospace]

Originally Posted by pianodano

Thanks for the info and please keep me posted on what you think.

I've tested with/without scenarios with the SERF on other mics before and never heard a noticeable difference, even when trying really hard to focus on any anomalies. So I was completely shocked when I pulled down the SERF last night and re-recorded a vocal part with the 44. Sounded like a completely different microphone (and a better one!). Sure, there was too much room in the recording, but it was like the singer had suddenly been cured of a head cold. (It almost literally sounded like that).

Now the 44bx I was using is quite different on its two sides. One is really bright and present and the other is smooth and velvety. It might be that the goodness of this particular microphone lies in a harmonious balance between those two sides (including room reflections) that is being negated by the SERF. Whatever the reason, the mic sounded better from both sides without the filter up. It just goes to show you, don't ever take anything for granted, how it's gonna work. I'd tested the SERF so much on other mics (including fig. 8 pattern) that I was pretty confident that it couldn't make that much of a difference on a mic, but that was wrong.

My other observation about the 44bx is that it doesn't seem to like EQ, or at least it doesn't seem to like the EQ's I have at my disposal. What I mean is, it sounds like what it sounds like, and anything I try to do to it to change that one way or the other seems to only hurt the mojo that's there to begin with. Fortunately what it sounds like is pretty great.

[mslim]

Originally Posted by pianodano

I had considered a couple sand bags but I was worried about sand leaking out onto the hardwood floors.

If you use a motion picture grip style sandbag you most likely won't have to worry about the sand leaking out.

http://www.modernstudio.com/
American Grip Inc.
MSE - Matthews Studio Equipment

The bummer is paying the shipping on sandbags if you don't live in the LA area. If you live in a metropolitan area, you might find a local Matthews dealer.

Most manufacturers will ship you the empty bags and you can fill them locally but then you need to find a shoe repair or awning guy to stitch them for you.

I keep a couple of sandbags in my car for ensuring that gear doesn't shift around. They are invaluable in the studio as well for making sure that cheap stand with the expensive mic doesn't take a nose dive.

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by mslim

If you use a motion picture grip style sandbag you most likely won't have to worry about the sand leaking out.

http://www.modernstudio.com/
American Grip Inc.
MSE - Matthews Studio Equipment

The bummer is paying the shipping on sandbags if you don't live in the LA area. If you live in a metropolitan area, you might find a local Matthews dealer.

Most manufacturers will ship you the empty bags and you can fill them locally but then you need to find a shoe repair or awning guy to stitch them for you.

I keep a couple of sandbags in my car for ensuring that gear doesn't shift around. They are invaluable in the studio as well for making sure that cheap stand with the expensive mic doesn't take a nose dive.

Thanks for the links. Nice stuff.

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by radiospace

I've tested with/without scenarios with the SERF on other mics before and never heard a noticeable difference, even when trying really hard to focus on any anomalies. So I was completely shocked when I pulled down the SERF last night and re-recorded a vocal part with the 44. Sounded like a completely different microphone (and a better one!). .

By "pulled down" are you saying that it sounded better with the serf ? If so I would think you must have a nice sounding room to record in.

Originally Posted by radiospace

Sure, there was too much room in the recording, but it was like the singer had suddenly been cured of a head cold. (It almost literally sounded like that).
.

That is what I like about the 44. It really does loose the nasal-ness that I am acoustomed to getting with some condensors which would include my poorly thought out purchases of a TLM103 and a KSM32, although they both work great on female vocals, to my ears. I have really been hoping to get my hands on a Manley but I might not ever be able to.

Originally Posted by radiospace

Now the 44bx I was using is quite different on its two sides. One is really bright and present and the other is smooth and velvety. It might be that the goodness of this particular microphone lies in a harmonious balance between those two sides (including room reflections) that is being negated by the SERF..

I have never noticed that before. I will have to try it to see if I can tell a difference between sides.

Originally Posted by radiospace

Whatever the reason, the mic sounded better from both sides without the filter up. It just goes to show you, don't ever take anything for granted, how it's gonna work.

It must be that the room is a good room to record in. I am at a loss as to why mine sounds so much better with the serf outside of that.

Originally Posted by radiospace

I'd tested the SERF so much on other mics (including fig. 8 pattern) that I was pretty confident that it couldn't make that much of a difference on a mic, but that was wrong..

So then you're saying it actually makes your 44 sound different, as in worse ?

Originally Posted by radiospace

My other observation about the 44bx is that it doesn't seem to like EQ, or at least it doesn't seem to like the EQ's I have at my disposal. What I mean is, it sounds like what it sounds like, and anything I try to do to it to change that one way or the other seems to only hurt the mojo that's there to begin with. Fortunately what it sounds like is pretty great.

With my voice, I have found that I need to do a little bit of low end rolloff starting at around 160k. And I do record with about 4 dB boost at around 4k which is a built in feature on the 610 preamp side of the 6176. What are you using for a preamp ? And thanks for all the info.

Danny