best format for LONG audio runs?

[soundslikejoe]

How would you run condenser mics from more than 200 ft aways without noise problems?

[BruPri]

You shouldn't experience any noise problems using a quality balanced mic run...

Originally Posted by joenovice

How would you run condenser mics from more than 200 ft aways without noise problems?

[John Eppstein]

With good quality cable.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by joenovice

How would you run condenser mics from more than 200 ft aways without noise problems?

200 is long use quad and use the Standard not Install Miniature grade
quad should be fine.

[Mike Brown]

Originally Posted by joenovice

How would you run condenser mics from more than 200 ft aways without noise problems?

Originally Posted by allencollins

200 is long use quad and use the Standard not Install Miniature grade
quad should be fine.

Many studios have mic tie lines that often reach in excess of 200 feet.

From the panel to the patchbay... through the patchbay to the preamp...

You shouldn't have problems.

I would send line level signal if possible.

[soundslikejoe]

I guess "noise" wasn't the right term.

I've always made the assumption that electrical signal degrades over cable length. It just seems to make sense that some resistance exists in the wire and that signal lessens over length.

When transmitting phantom over a 500' cable, would the mic still receive the full voltage?

[Bassmankr]

Why not put the mic pre close to the mic and run balanced line level the long distance and compare?

[soundslikejoe]

Why not put the mic pre close to the mic and run balanced line level the long distance and compare?

Because the Mics are suspended from a ceiling in a massive concert auditorium. I would guess the ceiling is 100' high or at least close to that.

The current cable run is probably more than 500'.

[grindx]

You could use a heavier gauge mic cable. I would stay away from quad at that length unless you have dimmer pack induced noise and need the quad construction to deal with that. Quad capacitance is typically higher than two conductor twisted pair type.

Proper mic cable is available in 20 Awg and you can get install grade type in 18, 16, 14 and 12 gauge. XLR solder cups will accept up to 14 Awg.

[Bassmankr]

Going with heavier guage wire ups the capacitence too. The low cap wire is going to be in the 22 to 24 guage range with a figure around 12pF (best I seen is just under 9pF). One other problem to figure is what is the weight of the mic and 100 feet of dangling cable. The audio cable by itself might not support the weight without damage and you may need a steel cable to tape the audio cable and mic to. Aestetics and how the mic points are things to consider too. Using quad cable is to reduce EMI noise interference (stage lighting is a big culprit) but at a price as many here report HF rolloff, which is not surprising when you look at it's cap figures. I've seen quad in the 60pF range. If you can use floor mic stands it will save you some grief as you can get to them in case of a problem, position them for the act, plus it won't look as bad as a couple 100' hanging cables.

[soundslikejoe]

These are already mounted with steel cables acting as support and positioning. That's partly why I ask; we have a very high noise floor without much quality definition.

Mics are KM184
Pre is True Precision 8
Phantom comes from pre

[grindx]

Originally Posted by Bassmankr

Going with heavier guage wire ups the capacitence too.

Actually, many audio cables' capacitance lowers with a heavier gauge. Insulation jacketing plays into that a good deal. Belden 22 Awg 9451 is around 35pF/ft while 18 Awg 8760 is 24pF/ft. 16 Awg 8719 is 23 pf/ft. 12 Awg 8718 is 25pf/ft.

Canare L-4E6S and Clark Wire's Mink4 are 46 pf/ft. Both have 24 awg conductors, but the Clark cable has a built in drin wire for easier termination.

Clark Wire also has a cable originally intended for DMX use, but I have used it for mic cable. It has quad construction but a lower capacitance of 11 pf/ft and also a built in drain wire. Since it has a foil shield as well, I prefer to use it in low movement applications.

[drtechno]

Another thing to consider is interconnects i.e. five 100' cables tied together.

In my experience, when I go over 250' the current capacity of the phantom power drops. And on concert rigs, the phantom is supplied by the monitor board.

I would recommend putting a phantom supply somewhere up in your catwalk.

and gaff tape any interconnects (all exposed metal ) after inspecting for corrosion. and make sure your your suspension wire is not touching the connector either (gaff it). this will prevent ground loops forming between the touching connector and the steel structure and concrete. AC signal ground is not always the same potential as earth ground and any difference is reflected in a attenuation of the signal.