High end power cables DID make a difference, so now what?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by TurboJets

No surprise, no revelation, because I didn't claim to have one. But yes, I have heard the difference such a small change can make in professional studio's I've been privileged to be in, record in, etc.

well I'm lucky enough to own one of the UKs most successful media outsource companies - I OWN such facilities !!

Originally Posted by TurboJets

Look, I posted some files with some simple changes; changes I could facilitate with what I have here. I explained my process, I explained my reasoning, and clearly stated it wouldn't please everyone, and stated they were for whoever might be interested in them and even added the complementary "FWIW". Whoever's not interested in them doesn't have to listen to them. It's a post to be taken or left alone. No need to jump all over me for making a post man, really. It's not like I wasted yours or anyone else's time. Chill please. Hey, it's not like anyone else was posting any clips, LOL.

True enough - and that's good of you to START the ball rolling. But it's incomplete - and therefore goes AGAINST the point. You'd need to do at least doubles of each scenario and ONLY change the power cable for any validity. You've put it up as a justification of your reasoning - fair enough. So do it properly - OR if you're backing away from what you initially said - then say so!

After all - it was you that called me dumb !!

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by narcoman

well I'm lucky enough to own one of the UKs most successful media outsource companies - I OWN such facilities !!






True enough - and that's good of you to START the ball rolling. But it's incomplete - and therefore goes AGAINST the point. You'd need to do at least doubles of each scenario and ONLY change the power cable for any validity. You've put it up as a justification of your reasoning - fair enough. So do it properly - OR if you're backing away from what you initially said - then say so!

After all - it was you that called me dumb !!

You should be able to prove this with basic test gear...
Drive the amp at max output, measure the distortion with cable A.
Repeat the above with cable B..

If the current/voltage lowers enough IT WILL show up in higher distortion...
You simply could NOT increase the sawtooth on the main caps and NOT notice it at least in a small amount in the distortion figures...

The max. wattage WILL also drop...IF the cables/connections ARE different enough...

Basic ohms law...

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by narcoman

After all - it was you that called me dumb !!

No sir, I never called you "dumb", I never did.

"However, you did call yourself dumb...I'll quote your words:

Narcoman -"Hey - I completely and utterly disagree with a lot of what you've said on this thread... BUT - Astrothingummy...... seriously - mighty impressed at having that as a profession.... so deaf and dumb I may be... But I like your job......"

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by TurboJets

No sir, I never called you "dumb", I never did.

"However, you did call yourself dumb...I'll quote your words:

Narcoman -"Hey - I completely and utterly disagree with a lot of what you've said on this thread... BUT - Astrothingummy...... seriously - mighty impressed at having that as a profession.... so deaf and dumb I may be... But I like your job......"

No - I said I was maybe deaf as a glib comment - and you replied - "you're deaf and dumb IMO". Your first reply to me.

ah - in fact you called me "daft"...... Post 76.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

You should be able to prove this with basic test gear...
Drive the amp at max output, measure the distortion with cable A.
Repeat the above with cable B..

If the current/voltage lowers enough IT WILL show up in higher distortion...
You simply could NOT increase the sawtooth on the main caps and NOT notice it at least in a small amount in the distortion figures...

The max. wattage WILL also drop...IF the cables/connections ARE different enough...

Basic ohms law...

eh? I assume your replying to a different post!! thar makes no sense as a reply to my post

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by narcoman

eh? I assume your replying to a different post!! thar makes no sense as a reply to my post

Wow, what was I thinking...

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by narcoman

No - I said I was maybe deaf as a glib comment - and you replied - "you're deaf and dumb IMO". Your first reply to me.

ah - in fact you called me "daft"...... Post 76.

Yes, exactly...I didn't call you "dumb". I did call you "daft" and remember it well.

And you absolutely did use the word "dumb" yourself, as I said. Post 217.

And to be honest it's ridiculous for you and I to be arguing over such meaningless and trivial thing's and I don't have so much disrespect for you to continue doing it really. That's not where I want to go with this narcoman, really. I have no desire to get so personal and trivial and I have no interest in us bashing each other on such a personal level. I'd rather put an end to you and I being so personal about this.

I'm happy to find out you own several facilities in your area, it'll make it so much easier for you to honor your promise to pickup one of these "high-end" cables next week and post a more structured audition. I look forward to hearing the clips you post.

[Froombosch]

Clips....

You folks are right, the differences are very small. I tried the next test:
I have the recordings I showed you before. I rerecorded them using my Aurora 16 as an I/O to my Eclipse being in bypass.

Nuendo out --> Aurora out ( analog) --> Eclipse in (analog)--> Aurora in (analog) --> Nuendo.

I have phase reverse the 230 V powerline of the Aurora 16. That is easy in Europe to do, we can turn the cable 180 degrees. I also tried another powercable.

The standard powercable used is a Lat-01 and the other cable is a el cheapo pvc cable. AC-2 Mains Power Cable

I did try the phase reverse test, but could not allign them that they cancel out. Maybe others can. Nothing was changed during the test, only the 230 V changes.

Here are the files: www.effectprocessor.com • View topic - reversing 230 V

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by TurboJets

I'm happy to find out you own several facilities in your area, it'll make it so much easier for you to honor your promise to pickup one of these "high-end" cables next week and post a more structured audition. I look forward to hearing the clips you post.

I would certainly like to do that - so we'll see what happens.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by TurboJets

I'd rather put an end to you and I being so personal about this.

done.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

Wow, what was I thinking...

actually I see what you mean now - a slightly tangental response, but I know what you're driving at. A good way to do it.

[Froombosch]

I just thought of making a "nulmeting". A rerecording without changing anything. Just to see if the differences in the rerecording are located somewhere else. I'll post that later on this evening...

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by narcoman

done.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Froombosch

I just thought of making a "nulmeting". A rerecording without changing anything. Just to see if the differences in the rerecording are located somewhere else. I'll post that later on this evening...

yeah - that's the control that needs doing.

[Froombosch]

I just did a rerecording without changing anything. The two recordings cancel out (accept for the converter and Eventide Eclipse noise) with phase reversed. The post are being uploaded to my webspace. I am happy that there is nothing wrong with my daw setup I was a bit scarred after not being possible to align the phase reverse trick.

Please listen and give your opinion.

[Barish]

I have received TurboJets' files but they were exactly the same sessions as the truncated ones posted earlier on, and since they are not done with valid methodology, I did not bother reposting them.

If you'd like me to post the properly done versions later, please do drop me a message and I will happily oblige.

Thanks.

B.

[Froombosch]

I'll replicate the test together with a few of my studio buddies. One test is nothing when not being replicated another day with some other people around. I'll keep you informed.

Okay I am off now...

[patfont]

.......so now what, plug them new A/C cables into a PS Audio Power Port A/C receptacle!

[Mike Brown]

Here is a test to check the audible difference these power cords cause:

Take a high end IEC and a low end IEC and chop the IEC ends off.

Solder the bare wires onto TRS or XLR connectors and plug directly into the amp/powered speaker.

Plug the other end into power.

Listen to the subtle differences in tone.... make sure you turn your amp/speakers all the way up before you turn them on because its going to be VERY quiet.

[bmdaugherty]

Lots of bad information going on in this thread. The differences between standard IEC cables and IEC cables from say Shunyata Research are VERY real. Anything they make with their patented helix geometry is absolutely worth the money and they have the science and endorsements to prove it.

I demoed a pair on my Adam S3As and it was like a different speaker. My friends, family, and clients were all able to perceive the difference between the two cables. I now own a pair.

I don't expect anyone to believe it, so quit debating and demo some. For those of you who refuse to believe, thats fine too, those in the know will ALWAYS have an upper-hand.

BTW, Any of you guys should be able to get a local audiophile boutique to lend you a pair to demo in your studio for free, but BEWARE: I find that audiophile gear dealers are a lot like drug dealers... they get you hooked for free and then charge the fukk out of you.


Brian

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by narcoman

actually I see what you mean now - a slightly tangental response, but I know what you're driving at. A good way to do it.

Good, that was the direction I was going, regardless of the direction the other posts were going...

[Barish]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

I don't expect anyone to believe it, so quit debating and demo some. For those of you who refuse to believe, thats fine too, those in the know will ALWAYS have an upper-hand.

The worst case of ignorance is when an ignorant is not aware of his ignorance and is so smug thinking what he knows is the maximum of what's to be known out there.

We ARE trying to demo it here, ya dafty. Haven't you read the thread?

Just do the test as Narcoman instructed above if you are a believer. Show us the evidence and we'll be believers too. If it is heard, then it can be recorded. Record it, and post it.

Until then, sorry, what you're saying is a load of tosh, and it makes you the third to the duo of the minute.

B.

[bmdaugherty]

ROFL, I can't believe what I am reading. You really can't just use your ears and get a pair to demo?

Like I said, if you don't believe it, it's okay. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you, because the only way you will be convinced is to have your jaw drop when you plug them in for the first time.

Why will I not attempt to convince you? Maybe it's because I just got done reading the "Ouch Mytek" thread and when presented with files for comparison, mytek fanboys discredited them by claiming that you have to use the gear IN PERSON to do a comparison. Or maybe it's because so many people are so critical of EVERYTHING on the internet that my tests would surely be discredited as unscientific anyway. So, there you go. Believe whatever you want.

USE YOUR EARS. If you can't hear the difference, don't buy them. Until you listen to them on your gear in your studio and do comparisons with your preferred source material, piss off you know-nothing, closed minded twat. fuuck

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

USE YOUR EARS. If you can't hear the difference, don't buy them. Until you listen to them on your gear in your studio and do comparisons with your preferred source material, piss off you know-nothing, closed minded twat. fuuck

um - I think you ought to look into some of the things Barish has done.... closed minded would be something I really don't think he can be accused of being. The guys KNOWS his stuff - more than most.

[bmdaugherty]

Okay, so I looked and looked to try and find some reference as to who Barish is or what he has accomplished and I can't find a thing. That's not to say that he doesn't know a lot about music. But, honestly, if he is as accomplished as you say he is, he should easily be able to recognize the need for a FIRST HAND demonstration.

I have had this discussion many times on several forums and even more often in person. I have never convinced anyone that there was a difference without taking them to my studio and showing them the difference. But surely I'm being silly... why would you ever believe your ears when you can endlessly debate the topic online?

I guess if you guys really want, I can mic one of my S3A monitors and record a sample with the standard IEC and again with the Shunyata cable... Then we can start a whole other discussion as to weather the mic was at the exact same angle, and weather or not the microwave was running when I ran the test...

Seriously, JUST DEMO THEM. A list of world distributers: Shunyata Research

Also, here is a list of ignorant dafties who all agree that iec cables do matter: Shunyata Research

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by narcoman

closed minded would be something I really don't think he can be accused of being. The guys KNOWS his stuff - more than most.

Prove it. That's a claim I really must insist you prove.

[TurboJets]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

my tests would surely be discredited as unscientific anyway.

I feel you could pretty much bet your next paycheck that would be the reaction here...unfortunately.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by AZeitung

Tarnish, when referring to metal, means oxidation/corrosion.

I suspect that possibly the word he actually wanted to use was BURNISH, which involves working metal by application of pressure and rubbing.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by jude

exactly, if you think 1 meter of cabkle is going to change power that may have traveled 100's ok km to your place you are an idiot and deserve to be robbed at your elite hi-hi storefuuck

Do you deny that resistance, as well as inductance and capacitance (which are negligible in this case) has no effect on the delivery of power to a fluctuating load?

Look, you can view a power cable as being a very large current resistor. Resistors have 2 parameters, at least for our purposes here - resistance and current capacity. Resistance of a good resistor is pretty constant until the power draw exceeds the wattage rating at which point it starts to present greater resistance to the current. This causes the resistor to start to heat up, and, if continued, will eventually burn it out. The thing is it's the lack of current capacity that makes it start to heat up, which also means that the amp isn't getting the power it needs to cover the level of output that's being demanded of it. This in turn, will directly affect the quality of the output. One of the properties of a resistor is that it limits current. I was recently reminded of this when I had to replace several 10 ohm current limiting resistors in the MCI 2-track that I'm buying.

How much it affects the quality of the output depends on the topography of the amp and most specifically, the power supply of the amp. A Class A or Class AB amp will have a power supply containing several large filter capacitors and a large, heavy power transformer that keep a current reserve onboard. These amps are relatively immune to the effects of power cord size because their power supplies average out the power draw over a relatively long period of time. If, however, the amp draws more directly on the power line, the effects of having that current limiting resistor resistor in the power supply circuit will have a much greater effect on the output quality of the amp.

[Schnert]

Originally Posted by bmdaugherty

Okay, so I looked and looked to try and find some reference as to who Barish is or what he has accomplished and I can't find a thing. That's not to say that he doesn't know a lot about music. But, honestly, if he is as accomplished as you say he is, he should easily be able to recognize the need for a FIRST HAND demonstration.

I have had this discussion many times on several forums and even more often in person. I have never convinced anyone that there was a difference without taking them to my studio and showing them the difference. But surely I'm being silly... why would you ever believe your ears when you can endlessly debate the topic online?

I guess if you guys really want, I can mic one of my S3A monitors and record a sample with the standard IEC and again with the Shunyata cable... Then we can start a whole other discussion as to weather the mic was at the exact same angle, and weather or not the microwave was running when I ran the test...

Seriously, JUST DEMO THEM. A list of world distributers: Shunyata Research

Also, here is a list of ignorant dafties who all agree that iec cables do matter: Shunyata Research

Would sex with anything that fits yer pecker feel the same?

The thing is, those Shunyata cables obviously turns you on more