Best budget mic pre

[dangeorge6]

Hey all,

Over the last week or so, I've been agonizing over which mic pre I should purchase. I was wondering if anyone could offer me some advice. As of know my setup consists of an Mbox into a G4 laptop running protools. I recently bought an AT4047 condenser mic and I have a variety of dynamics. I figure the next step for me is to get a mic pre.

The problem is that I can't really spend over 1000 bucks. In fact, it would be nice to only spend 500 or so. I'd very much prefer a two channel mic pre because I often record acoustics in stereo, and run an amped bass guitar along with the bass guitar DIed. Ultimately, I'd appreciate product suggestions, but I also have a few questions:

-Should I go for a tube or solid state preamp? Are solid states so bad?
-Would a preamp with a built in A/D converter with S/PDIF out vastly improve my sound if I plugged into the Mbox's digital in?
-are there preamps out there with exceptional EQs and Compressors so I wouldn't have to buy additional hardware?

Right now, I'm looking at the Focusrite Twin Trax Pro and the ART DPS II. The Focusrite doesn't have built in SPDIF out but the ART does. The ART is tube but the focusrite is not. The focusrite has some EQ and a decent compressor. What would you go with? Are there better products that meet my needs you know of? Thanks so much!

Danny

[max cooper]

I suggest one of the modular solutions from Brent Averill or Old School Audio. You'll need a frame, which holds six preamps, but once you have it, preamps are around $500 each. If I had $1000 I'd get the frame and one preamp. Then when you have another $500, get another.

It's worth the wait.

check out the 312A:

http://www.brentaverill.com/

then there's:

http://www.oldschoolaudio.com/

[proxy]

Hi,

I agree with Max's idea, by the way. And most people will probably think this question belongs in the low-end forum, but since you're here, I figured I'd chime in.

Originally Posted by dangeorge6

-Should I go for a tube or solid state preamp? Are solid states so bad?

High-end SolidState and high-end tube are good. Don't be fooled by the fact that a tube is slapped in there that it is somehow better.

Originally Posted by dangeorge6

-Would a preamp with a built in A/D converter with S/PDIF out vastly improve my sound if I plugged into the Mbox's digital in?

I think that asking your pre to do double-duty like that is diluting your spending/qaulity. I've heard a lot worse converters than MBox and if you're going to improve on them, maybe save that step for later and make it a big, nice jump

Originally Posted by dangeorge6

-are there preamps out there with exceptional EQs and Compressors so I wouldn't have to buy additional hardware?

I would say, rather than get an entry level channel strip that is trying to do too much, get a piece (a pre) that does one thing well and build around it. I'm not sure what you're using now, but I may go as far as saying, put that money into as nice a single channel as your money will get.

I'm sure others can chime in with specific examples, but again, I think Max's idea is cool - good planning for the future.

Hope that's helpful,

- proxy

[Sounds Great]

For around 8 or 9 hundred dollars you can get a 4 channel Sytek. Yeah, it isn't top of the line but it is very good, and can give some very high end units some good competition.

And the Sytek will retain it's value when you are ready to trade up.

[RecTechMin]

DAV electronics BG-1. 2 channels for $600. Super sounding.

[brownmouse]

in that budget i would look at the fmr audio rnp. i would personally skip the art and focusrite stuff. as far as tube vs. solid state... don't buy the 'type' , buy a preamp that is quality (no matter whats under the hood). there are excellent tube designs and excellent solid state designs and there are a plethora of crappy ones in both camps.
good luck,
joshua

[malfunction]

i'm kind of in the same boat...i want to improve my sounds, i have an Mbox and was thinking about getting a Apogee Mini-me converter to bypass the Mbox pres but now i'm thinking whether this or a good mic-pre (API 512) would be better???
Grant

[Adebar]

The Grace m101 is about 500 $. It is transparent, low noise and has HiZ input too.

BTW. I have an old Nakamichi preamp which sounds really open and clean. It has no phantom power and only unbalanced inputs and outputs, not always good to use. But the preamp has a supricing high quality I once used it with B&K4006 omnis (phanotm power comong from a small Neumann box) for roecording a brass quintett and was almost blown of the good result.

[xiandishinger]

universal audio 2108. solid state class A. colored not transparent. i got mine new on ebay for $1100 US. very good on kick and snare as well as gtrs and vox. does clean and dirty well. as for tube vs. solid state , there are good varieties of both. im looking at bae 312 next!!!

[GPl]

Originally Posted by xiandishinger

universal audio 2108. solid state class A. colored not transparent. i got mine new on ebay for $1100 US. very good on kick and snare as well as gtrs and vox. does clean and dirty well. as for tube vs. solid state , there are good varieties of both. im looking at bae 312 next!!!

The 2108 has been discontinued. You mihgt find one on e-bay, but you definately can't buy a new one.

Max's idea is a good one. It's something you can build on. Also look into seventhcircleaudio.com

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by malfunction

i'm kind of in the same boat...i want to improve my sounds, i have an Mbox and was thinking about getting a Apogee Mini-me converter to bypass the Mbox pres but now i'm thinking whether this or a good mic-pre (API 512) would be better???
Grant

Given the choice of API preamps and Mbox converters VS Mini me preamp and converter, I'd take the latter. I've often thought that something like an Mbox + a Mini Me and a Mini DAC would be a nice, compact, portable rig.

[Mazaga]

What about RNP from FMR Audio.
Comments?
thanks
M.

[cletus]

Originally Posted by malfunction

i'm kind of in the same boat...i want to improve my sounds, i have an Mbox and was thinking about getting a Apogee Mini-me converter to bypass the Mbox pres but now i'm thinking whether this or a good mic-pre (API 512) would be better???
Grant

Get the mini me then get a good pre thats what I did! You'll have way better conversion and 2 very useable pres! As far as a decent pre a round five hundo i'd also have to go with the BA 312. If you spend a little extra dough for the lunch box now, you'll thank yourself later cause you'll have the option of getting more pre's and eq's like API or BA. Also the FMR really nice pre is another option. Two channels for 500 bucks. PEACE

[brownmouse]

Originally Posted by Mazaga

What about RNP from FMR Audio.
Comments?
thanks
M.

its a great preamp that is way under priced. its not just 'good for the money', its a 'good' preamp that would still be useful in a collection with some of the more known 'heavyweights'. i would compare it more with preamps twice its price range (in quality not color) not ones in its price range.
joshua

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by brownmouse

in that budget i would look at the fmr audio rnp. i would personally skip the art and focusrite stuff. as far as tube vs. solid state... don't buy the 'type' , buy a preamp that is quality (no matter whats under the hood). there are excellent tube designs and excellent solid state designs and there are a plethora of crappy ones in both camps.
good luck,
joshua

Agreed. When I started recording ~15 years ago, I just used the pres in my Tascam board, then a Mackie board after that. Of course they weren't great, but they did what I needed for my purposes. I learned, then gear lust set in.

For the sake of variety, I branched out and tried various low-end gear, including ART and Focusrite among others. Let me say this:

1) ART DualMP -- a cheap, dark pre that can be fun in limited doses when driven lightly, but it makes an *excellent* stereo DI / flavor box for sterile synths, loops, etc. Buy a cheap used one for fun, but don't buy one for a pre-amp.

2) Focurite VoiceMaster Pro -- ok, here's the thing on this one: I don't particularly like the sound of the pre (kind of boxy and unexciting), but the rest of the box is great fun (save the EQ that's merely OK). Truthfully, I often use another pre, then patch into the Focusrite for the compressor, simluated tube drive circuit, harmonic circuit and de-esser. Honestly, the Focusrite is like my secret weapon for recording electric guitar! It's a truly creative sound sculpting box, but please don't buy it for the pre alone.

About a year ago, I wanted a good middle of the road pre-amp that A) wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg, B) didn't lean too much toward any specific flavor and c) that was good enough that I wouldn't blame my crappy pre-amp for a bad recording. I picked up an RNP and I've been very pleased. The metering is lacking and the input can only be adjusted in 6dB steps, but the sound quality is fantastic and the value is off the charts. I really never understood the appeal of an SM57 until I plugged it into the RNP. I also use it with an AT4047 and I think they make a great match. The 4047 provides the character and the RNP provides smooth, clean gain with great openness.

As others have mentioned on other threads, you can really hear the difference between cheaper pres and better pres as the track count grows. When I recorded a tune with 5 or 6 tracks of vocal harmonies usign the RNP, I was really pleased with the clarity and definition that remained even with a dense set of vocals. Layering didn't result in mud like it did when I used to track on the Mackie.

Unless you really care about asthetics or want a bragging piece, don't discount the RNP for less than $250/channel. It's not pretty, but it gets the job done and you probably won't grow out of it even when you add other more expensive gear.

-Synth80s

[wavcatcher]

Get an FMR RNP and RNC and record happily knowing they will stay in your rig longer than your MBox most likely!

Seriously the FMR stuff is no joke. I freelance and can use just about anything in some of the studio's I work out of but I've got a rack with RNP's and RNC's just to cover my hiney in case I'm at a studio with a selection I'm not happy with.

[Synth80s]

Forgot to add one thing: the RNP also makes for two channels of great DI, which not all pre-amps have at any price. I'm working on a new tune right now -- the chain I'm using just to cut some scratch tracks is: guitar > a few pedals > RNP DI > RNC > Speck EQ. Though I'd normally mic up an amp, I'm surprised at how well this simple chain is working.

-Synth80s

[cletus]

Someone is selling an RNP and an RNC together for $550 on page two of the gearslutz classifieds. Great deal man you should hook it up! Funk Logic makes a rack mount for the rnc and rnp together that you could get as well if you wanna rack them up!

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by cletus

Someone is selling an RNP and an RNC together for $550 on page two of the gearslutz classifieds. Great deal man you should hook it up! Funk Logic makes a rack mount for the rnc and rnp together that you could get as well if you wanna rack them up!

On an unrelated note, someone is selling two Speck ASC EQs (not ASC-T with the transformer output but great nonetheless) on eBay for ~$500. Though I often mix and match compressors, my basic "poor man's professional" front end is RNP > RNC > ASC-T. It's a great combo for the dough, especially at used prices!

-Synth80s