a home recording setup vs. a studio (for my slightly specialized needs)

[hithere]

hey guys thanks so much for all the tech help but I wanted to look at my music career from another standpoint.

I am 19 soon off to berklee college of music, and write and perform pretty much everything myself. This is what I enjoy to do, but with my latest album my biggest issue was dealing with my boss 864 multitrack for the last time.

errors/pain/annoyance galore.

I am alright at basic recording principals and will be learning more in school.

I had 2000 dollars to buy one nice long term investment and was even looking at a neve duo mic preamp as a keeper, but I am also starting to think about turning a new leaf and picking up a fast track pro or something!

The main reason I just wanted a stable (working system) was because my writing process is so closely tied to overdubbing.

That being said as I really am not as interested in being a amazing mixer/producer/ as I was at tracking at home. I will be learning this new stuff in the near future though anyway.

But as much as I am ambitious to have the best gear for myself, I realize that even buying one piece of high quality equipment with the money I have and will have for a long time (college won't be the best time financially!) I won't even have the ability to put more money into a decent mic.

as I have said I don't want just a decent setup, I really want to have the best.

So my thought is this, having a computer setup, with my mac mini and even the most basic m-audio box would allow me to have a good hassle free demo setup. I could write everything and have things well rehearsed when I go in.

Even in college having really good drummers and bass players around who are better than me will help me not waste tons of time in the studio.

So two questions (there is a local studio around here that charges 40 dollars an hour and they have some api/neuman/huge nice live room.

What is an average charge for a fairly pro studio, not one with the biggest clients or name, but one with a knowledgable staff. I know this varies but any estimates?

and lastly what is the cheapest two channel interface I could use with my mac and garageband, that wouldn't sound any worse then my boss br864 for my demo needs?

thanks so much for any replies!

[Mr.HOLMES]

I just can speak for my country germany.
A good pro studio is about 300-500 Euros a day.

But may you think in other terms.
You can have good sound today with smaller setups.

Yes that may is harder work because you have to overdub and it may loses some live because when people play together it is more fun... in my ears.

Anyway for writing and good demos you may invest in an interface around 200-400$ and a good microphone.
It do not have to be a Neumann.
I just heard great words about MXL SL 11 it is made in China but now they got much better since they build for every mic its own board...

Good enough for DEMOS and writing.
Anyway your guesswork is right great sound and great tracking is just made by great places with great people working there.

For me recording is still one of the hardest parts... but I learn from my mistakes a lot and make big mistakes every session... thats it how it works.

But I am getting better and the more early you start the faster you will learn how to go a step further as demo level.

Andreas just another one learning all the time.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by hithere

hey guys thanks so much for all the tech help but I wanted to look at my music career from another standpoint.

I am 19 soon off to berklee college of music, and write and perform pretty much everything myself. This is what I enjoy to do, but with my latest album my biggest issue was dealing with my boss 864 multitrack for the last time.

errors/pain/annoyance galore.

I am alright at basic recording principals and will be learning more in school.

I had 2000 dollars to buy one nice long term investment and was even looking at a neve duo mic preamp as a keeper, but I am also starting to think about turning a new leaf and picking up a fast track pro or something!

The main reason I just wanted a stable (working system) was because my writing process is so closely tied to overdubbing.

That being said as I really am not as interested in being a amazing mixer/producer/ as I was at tracking at home. I will be learning this new stuff in the near future though anyway.

But as much as I am ambitious to have the best gear for myself, I realize that even buying one piece of high quality equipment with the money I have and will have for a long time (college won't be the best time financially!) I won't even have the ability to put more money into a decent mic.

as I have said I don't want just a decent setup, I really want to have the best.

So my thought is this, having a computer setup, with my mac mini and even the most basic m-audio box would allow me to have a good hassle free demo setup. I could write everything and have things well rehearsed when I go in.

Even in college having really good drummers and bass players around who are better than me will help me not waste tons of time in the studio.

So two questions (there is a local studio around here that charges 40 dollars an hour and they have some api/neuman/huge nice live room.

What is an average charge for a fairly pro studio, not one with the biggest clients or name, but one with a knowledgable staff. I know this varies but any estimates?

and lastly what is the cheapest two channel interface I could use with my mac and garageband, that wouldn't sound any worse then my boss br864 for my demo needs?

thanks so much for any replies!

Don't get so caught up in "name" recognition gear. Get an Echo Audiofire (the 12 channel version goes for 425 on ebay and the 4 or 2 channel version goes for peanuts) and build yourself a few channels of SCA preamps The Apogee Duet is also another option. That'll get you quality sound for not that much and definitely under your budget. If you buy a neve preamp you'll have a neve preamp and nothing else. There are better ways to spend your money at this point.

[u b k]

If I could get you to do one thing and one thing alone, it'd be to pay a lot less attention to the 'pro'-ness of a studio and pay a lot more attention to the personality and actual workproduct of the guy who'll be running your session.

The operator is the key. And ime, some gifted operators do their thing for $40/hour and some do it for $1000/song all-in. And no matter talented a guy is, if you don't jibe with him, your music will suffer tremendously. Likewise, the studio ought to have an environment that inspires more than a gearlist that impresses.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.

[hithere]

for me what was really scary is that the last record I am finishing up was recording on a sm57 and boss br-854, with some of the more important stuff like drums being done in the studio. So the budget was very low, but it sounds very good for what it is, and the mood of the album.

I just talked to a very credible source that makes a lot of indie records, and the fact that a record costs 25k in the low budget (for an indie record) is really scary.

More so in that I am not in a band where we could split up the money.

It makes home room recordings prices look great, but at the end of the day it is still a slippery slope into expensive gear. With my small budget of 2000 right now, I still would only be affording one nice piece of gear. Which leads to another piece and another piece.

The thing that bothers me the most is I have so much material and I know that I could get gear for 2000 that would do my songs justice, but I just really want the best for myself, and I am somewhat overly ambitious in that wanting the best at my younger age is hard.

Also I love every aspect and am not just trying to be a singer songwriter to be signed and have the attention of a solo artist. I just am at the time in my life, from when I grew up that I always did everything myself, and would like to be able to continue, but the cost really puts a huge issue on any artist who doesn't have it.

so I suppose that is the point of being signed.

[larry b]

Originally Posted by hithere

for me what was really scary is that the last record I am finishing up was recording on a sm57 and boss br-854, with some of the more important stuff like drums being done in the studio. So the budget was very low, but it sounds very good for what it is, and the mood of the album.

I just talked to a very credible source that makes a lot of indie records, and the fact that a record costs 25k in the low budget (for an indie record) is really scary.

More so in that I am not in a band where we could split up the money.

It makes home room recordings prices look great, but at the end of the day it is still a slippery slope into expensive gear. With my small budget of 2000 right now, I still would only be affording one nice piece of gear. Which leads to another piece and another piece.

The thing that bothers me the most is I have so much material and I know that I could get gear for 2000 that would do my songs justice, but I just really want the best for myself, and I am somewhat overly ambitious in that wanting the best at my younger age is hard.

Also I love every aspect and am not just trying to be a singer songwriter to be signed and have the attention of a solo artist. I just am at the time in my life, from when I grew up that I always did everything myself, and would like to be able to continue, but the cost really puts a huge issue on any artist who doesn't have it.

so I suppose that is the point of being signed.

A record doesnt have to cost 25k. It can, but it doesnt have to.

I have heard crappy sounding recordings that cost more than that to make, and i have heard fantastic recordings that cost 3k to make. Nothing is set in stone with all of this.

[66d35]

You do not have to spend a fortune to get extremely good recordings.

What you do have to do is learn and understand the concepts and techniques involved. You can, for example, get excellent results from fairly simple interfaces (for example, but not limited to, Apogee Duet or Focusrite Saffire) and any one of a large number of very acceptable mics, Studio Projects C1, MXL's, CAD's, M-Audio, SE Electronics and countless others you'll see discussed here.

You also need to get some effective acoustic room treatment, for both recording and monitoring. This is where 'real' studios score. They do it - big time. You can also do it on a budget - see the Acoustics section here. That is where I'd spend some $$ in preference to 'big name' preamps, or mics, basically because without a good acoustic space, the latter will sound bad anyway. By contrast, 'modest' but good equipment can sound gread in a good room.

Good luck.

Andy

[SANDS]

I can tell you from first hand experience with both the gear and being poor as hell.

I bought an Apogee Duet which is a two channel interface. I also bought a Neve Portico 5016. It has one mic pre and one D.I. For me it works well and sounds great. I went with the Duet for a few reasons.

1.) In college I worked on a ripped out Apogee rig and loved the sound, In another mix room there was a cheaper setup with an Apogee Ensemble, which is just like the Duet only it has more ins and outs. Loved that rig too.

2.) The Duet lets you pick +4, -10, XLR Duet pre, or instrument in, which is perfect for using an external pre like the Neve I bought. Most interfaces don't let you bypass the pre onboard.

3.) It's two channel and works well two ins on the Duet and two ins on my neve, perfect for overdubs and working in stages alone.

4.) Works perfect with my Cubase 5 setup and my buddies Logic rig.

5.) very small and easy to move around.

Also if you want to save more cash there is a new one by Apogee called "ONE" which is the same as the Duet/Ensemble line, but even smaller.

[hithere]

yeah guys it seems like what I need to do is make some smart investments for some of my own gear, the fact is I also know some of some of my favorite artists might not record on that budget.

[hithere]

is that some of the independent studios I was looking at had decent day rates.

Some were even around 300 dollars for a day, but I was told more pro studios have a seperate hiring rate for engineers, so some are more around 500 a day.

I think what I really have to think too is tracking at a studio if you know your parts well isn't the big price hitter, I guess it would be more on mixing and mastering. A guy I was talking to said that some bands at his studio spend as small as 1000 and upper to the 6000 range on mastering alone. While his recording rate wasn't so bad.

So maybe it would be good to track at a nice studio and shop around for the mixing and mastering.

[rack gear]

hourly rates are a filter in a time vs cost benefit equation.

the guys who change more do, because it is an effective filter to prioritize their time.

the higher up the ladder someone goes, the more in demand they are, the higher the rates (usually).

that doesn't mean people at lower rates are any less capable, they just don't have the same demands on their time.

earlier this year I quoted a rate to someone to mix a few songs for them, and if they liked them - then I would do the whole album. I did the first mix on spec, which they loved (or at least told me so).

they later decided they didn't want to pay me what I was asking - which was OK by me, because my time is precious and needs to be compensated. I had no interest in not being compensated to my needs for the time invested.

So by me not doing this project, it probably created an opportunity for someone else.

[hithere]

and part of me wants to stay out of the rut of getting into all that gear myself, when I should be out playing and meeting people who play and record, which is probably what I will be doing. When the time comes again to record, I will need the $.

[Mark Kaufman]

I'd get that Duet if I had a Mac and I were heading off to college and just recording my own one-track-at-a-time solo stuff. But if I meant to play with bands I'd hit that Audiofire 12. An excellent preamp isn't a bad idea either...we tend to be poorer when we're students, so having something great could be a godsend before the money declines...but gradually acquiring a good mic locker, yeah, that can happen quickly enough at college.

Getting signed...always a goal and careful what you wish for.

Cheers, and good luck!

[DontLetMeDrown]

Ok, I'm going to offer some slightly different advice...

I've found that the most killer musicians sound amazing no matter who is recording them, no matter what gear is being used. I encourage [and challenge] you to really decide which you would rather be: 1) a kickass musician with killer chops who writes killer songs or 2) a guy who makes awesome recordings.

The main reason I say this is because recording guys are truly a dime a dozen, while amazing musicians and songwriters seem to be a LOT more rare nowadays. There are guys who can pull off both, but they are even MORE rare. Recording takes a lot of time to learn-- time that could be spent writing and improving technique instead of tweaking and tweaking ad nauseum. There is only so much time in a day.

Maybe invest in a simple recording device to use as a scratch pad, and go to the nice studio once you've really got something worth recording.

[hithere]

donletmedown, I really do agree with you to an extent, because I have recorded myself for such a long time, I have noticed my music always has what is has regardless of if I am in a studio or not, and for me I know my time would probably be better spent on writing than tweaking and spending tons of money on home gear.

I will be in songwriting classes and recording classes in school, so I will probably really get to see what way I want to go, another thing is to have talented musicians around you who are good at tracking live, can save a lot of studio time money.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown

I've found that the most killer musicians sound amazing no matter who is recording them, no matter what gear is being used. I encourage [and challenge] you to really decide which you would rather be: 1) a kickass musician with killer chops who writes killer songs or 2) a guy who makes awesome recordings.

Quoted for truth.

Another aspect of this is the truism that the way to get a LOT better a LOT faster is to play with people who are as, or more, talented and driven than you. Jamming with other cats is essential to upping your game on all levels.

And the bitch of it is that you have to spend 5x as much time on the things your weakest at than the things your strong at. It's nowhere near as fun to do this, but it's the only way to close the gap between your strengths and your flaws, and as a result your overall musicality goes up in spades.

The importance of regular lessons with a gifted teacher cannot be overstated.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.