Post here if you worked on Michael Jackson's DANGEROUS album

[MJslostcousin]

Wow, that was fast!

About Over-Dubbing
Thanks for the explanation...

About The Christmas Song
Nope, it definitely wasn't released by Michael Jackson(lol). Do you remember the title?

Anybody know why he shelved that song? I hope The Estate considers releasing it in the future.

[TwistedV]

RE: Overdubbing, I believe MJ recorded new vocals and had them dubbed into his 2001 special.

RE: HIStory Tour, I have multiple HIStory concerts on tape/DVD - several televised concerts and several audience recordings.

Exactly the same songs are lip-synched on every single recording. And the vocals are identical.

Maybe other artists sing live most of the time and give cues to introduce pre-records, but Michael did not. There is more than enough HIStory Tour footage available to prove this conclusively. I also know people who travelled around the world following the HIStory Tour, attending 10+ concerts, and they all agree that the same songs were mimed every single time.

He didn't even re-record and mime to new vocals (apart from re-recording Janet's verse of Scream and miming to that every night). For TDCAU, Stranger In Moscow, Smooth Criminal, You Are Not Alone, Billie Jean, Beat It, Thriller, Black Or White, Blood On The Dancefloor, Heal The World, HIStory, Earth Song, the OTW medley, DS and Come Together - he just mimed to the original album vocals.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by TwistedV

RE: Overdubbing, I believe MJ recorded new vocals and had them dubbed into his 2001 special.

Very common, I've worked on a ton of VH-1 Storytellers, live concert DVD's, etc., and in most cases artists and their musicians come in and fix parts as it's being mixed.

[GoFlying]

Originally Posted by robmix

Very common, I've worked on a ton of VH-1 Storytellers, live concert DVD's, etc., and in most cases artists and their musicians come in and fix parts as it's being mixed.

Yep Rob, that's such a commonplace thing - although each concert or live event is obviously unique, what happens all too often is that the artist ends up with a 'cosmetically perfect' recording that has had much of the guts, sweat, 'warts, blemishes, fluffs etc removed or watered down in the post production process.

It's a bit like the flip side of 'I preferred the demo' syndrome

[Wiseg]

just spent the past 4 hours reading this entire thread, and wish to thank all the pro's for taking the time and effort in answering many questions and painting us such a beatiful picture.

wow what a experience.


many thanks

[mr. torture]

A very cool thread indeed, thank you!

[keylay]

Best thread on the site.

[Jeanann Leone]

Originally Posted by MJslostcousin

I did too! I dreamed I was watching the first This Is It! concert(July 13th) from the back. Everything he sang was live and electrifying! His dancing was better then ever! Once reality struck, I started fading reluctantly out of my dream. :(

Back on topic. I have a question. Why was Michael Jackson not too thrilled about The Invincible Project from the start(around 98)? What really happened between MJ and Tony Motolla?

I read an article about the Motolla and Jackson feud. Supposedly the masters of Michael's music were to be turned over to him in 2000. However, Michael found that the contract stipulated that he still owed Sony more albums and a list of things that he could not possibly fulfill.

It was discovered that the same lawyer who drew up the contract worked for both Michael and Sony, which was a conflict of interest. Michael also thought that Sony was mad because he owned half their music catalogue. He said they thought he only thought about music and didn't realize he was capable of making a shrewd business decision. Michael told Sony he was leaving the label and the feud began.

Sony refused to promote Invincible. In fact "You Rock My World" was secretly leaked by a radio station who began playing it and it became a hit.

"Invincible" sold nine million copies which was three times more than any other artist at the time. Sony considered it a failure because it didn't sell like "Thriller". Expecting an artist to produce albums that were on the same level in sales as "Thriller" was unfair. to sell nine million copies with hardly any promotion, is unbelievable. Personally, "Invincible" is one of my favorite albums.

Here is the link for a wonderful interview with two men who were Sony executives- don't know if they still are. Corey Rooney was hired in 1998 by Tommy Mottola to be Vice President of A&R at Epic Records. During this time he became friends with Michael.

The other executive is Chris Apostle who was Vice President of Special Recording Projects at Sony Music Entertainment. He later became Tommy Mottola's right-hand man.

They address the feud in the interview. They have nothing but glowing things to say about Michael- his musical genius and his work ethic. They also talk about how his many years as a performer damaged Michael's health and how he lived in constant pain.

There is a print version of the interview, but you can also click to hear the audio.

http://thesportsinterview.com/mjackson.html

This is not related to music, but maybe some of you guys who worked with Michael might know the answer.

For a period of time, Michael would sign autographs with 1998 even though it was 1988. He would then draw and arrow pointing toward the right with three zeros. I've only been able to find one theory- that he thought he would die in 2000. I was wondering if it had to do with the fact he thought he would get the rights to his music in 2000? Does anyone know the answer to this?

[Jeanann Leone]

Originally Posted by DangerousInc

All previous confidentiality agreements expired with Michael. Any new agreement would be with the estate admins and/or Sony.

Here is a demo of Smooth Criminal. The first image is MJs hearbeat being recorded for the intro. Audio quality is bad:
YouTube - Michael Jackson Smooth Criminal Demo

This is not related to music, but could the confidentiality agreement Michael had with Jordan and Evan chandler now be expired because they are both gone? Is what you said only related to music, or does it relate to any kind of confidentiality agreement? It would be fantastic if Jordan Chandler would man-up and come out with the truth and clear that cloud that always hung over Michael's head because he settled out of court. I pray that Jordan will do the right thing some day.

[RasCricket]

Here's a link to my instrumental version of "Human Nature"

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7931344

Its in a "Song of the Year" contest and has garnered a bit of acclaim. AMPED SOUNDS - Vote

I did all the instruments programmed from Reason 4.0 ~ I did it as a challenge to myself after seeing John Mayer do a version. I thought he skipped out on the hardest part, the main keyboard line, so I tackled it both on keys and guitar and to my amazement, the track turned out really well. Enjoy. Vote if ya like, the contest is almost over. Thanks for listenin'

[Jeanann Leone]

Originally Posted by Bill Bottrell

the Chopra thing doesn't sound right. Michael properly saw himself as a great writer after "Billie Jean" and had no need to seek songs or writers. He was fastidious about any outsiders and the possibility of getting sued. i once watched him spy an unknown cassette on the console on which was written the name of a (famous) writer and the name of a song. He eyed it like a spooked horse, stepped aside, and walked to the other side of the console without coming within 5 feet of the alien tape.

Deepak Chopra also said in an interview after Michael's death that he informally helped Michael with lyrics through the years. He said days before Michael's death, Michael had a new song that he wanted Deepak to listen to and to give him some ideas about the lyrics.

Deepak said it was like the CIA was involved in relation to how many pains were taken to get the music to him without someone stealing it. He said the tape was still lying on the table beside his bed when he heard Michael had died.

He said he also worked on some writings that were supposed to be a book to sell to fans on one of his tours. He mainly copied down what Michael said. Those writings became Michael's book, "Dancing the Dream".

I wonder if he is going to turn that over that tape to Michael's executors of his estate?

[Jeanann Leone]

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

BGs and BVs are the same thing.
Backgrounds or Backing/Background Vocals. Something that Michael excelled above all others in. He was putting together water tight backing vocal stacks long before we had tools that allow beginners to try and copy him!

Thanks, Mikey- it is so simple now that you write the words out! LOL! Yes, his background harmonies were something. What better than to harmonize with yourself? The vocal quality would be consistent and perfect!

[Jeanann Leone]

Originally Posted by TwistedV

The performances are vocally identical across the entire tour.

As a big MJ fan I can vouch for the fact that the vocals are identical to the studio recordings. I have never seen a Billie Jean performance from the HIStory Tour where he wasn't miming to the original 1982 vocal. Same goes for Thriller and almost every song on the tour.

RE: concert prep vs the actual concerts... MJ sang every song live during the Dangerous rehearsals, but when he actually hit the road about half of them were lip-synched every night.

I'm a big MJ collector. I have at least four or five full HIStory concerts (pro-shot) on VHS or DVD and a handful of audience recordings as well. I can assure you that around 90% of the setlist was mimed every single night.

In fact, there were occasions when the audio tracks didn't kick in for whatsver reason and the difference was enormous. Even the first number, Scream, by which point MJ hadn't done everything - he sounded totally breathless.

The HIStory Tour is almost universally panned by fans for the reason that is is pretty much completely mimed. For some of the tracks the backing singers are miming to MJ's own backing vocals (Stranger In Moscow springs to mind). On other tracks MJ hasn't even taken the time to re-record, so there are two or three of his own vocal tracks playing at the same time and he doesn't know which one to mime to.

Here are a few HIStory Tour clips to illustrate:

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Scream Live Munich 1997

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Billie Jean - HIStory Tour Munich

As I say, he even mimed ballads like Stranger In Moscow and You Are Not Alone:

YouTube - Stranger In Moscow (Live)

YouTube - Michael jackson - you are not alone (Live) History tour (1997)

Ok. I think you've made your point. You win- he mimed. It doesn't take away from the fact that he could sing! He had a God given talent.

He wasn't syncing because he couldn't sing. He was almost 40 years old and was in constant pain from the injuries his body suffered after performing since the age of 5. He had arthritis in his back and fingers, he suffered pain from the burns on his head that never healed properly, he had bad knees, he had what is called "dancers feet" which is supposed to be extremely painful. This man gave his all when most would not even have gotten out of bed everyday.

I don't think there are many performers who could give a 2 1/2 hour show every night with all that dancing when they were young, let alone someone who was middle-aged and suffering.

You are supposed to be a fan. You should know all this. Give the man a break and have some sympathy for him. He was a man who had a work ethic like no other. That has been said over and over again here.

[DJP777]

Originally Posted by RasCricket

Here's a link to my instrumental version of "Human Nature"

SoundClick artist: RasCricket - Singing songs about truth, unity, & higher vibes, I'm here with the specific mission of raising cons

Its in a "Song of the Year" contest and has garnered a bit of acclaim. AMPED SOUNDS - Vote

I did all the instruments programmed from Reason 4.0 ~ I did it as a challenge to myself after seeing John Mayer do a version. I thought he skipped out on the hardest part, the main keyboard line, so I tackled it both on keys and guitar and to my amazement, the track turned out really well. Enjoy. Vote if ya like, the contest is almost over. Thanks for listenin'

Dude, this is ridiculous! Well done!

I tried to download the MP3 but had to sign up. If you can post the download link here, that would be great.

Great listening to this with my beats by dre on lol :P

[jaywonder]

To Daveway, Bill Bottrell, Robmix, and whoever else worked with Michael:

Do you remember any songs/songtitles that never made the albums? I'd love to know

[bobmoo79]

Originally Posted by Jeanann Leone

ISony refused to promote Invincible. In fact "You Rock My World" was secretly leaked by a radio station who began playing it and it became a hit.

"Invincible" sold nine million copies which was three times more than any other artist at the time. Sony considered it a failure because it didn't sell like "Thriller". Expecting an artist to produce albums that were on the same level in sales as "Thriller" was unfair. to sell nine million copies with hardly any promotion, is unbelievable. Personally, "Invincible" is one of my favorite albums.

Just for clarification, Invincible didn't sell "three times more than any other artist at the time."
But I do agree that despite the negative press attention it received, it did sell very well when you consider the dubious tactics Sony used. Leaking "YRMW" was just the beginning. Mike was not ready to release it and he was not on form around that time and Sony knew it. By releasing the single they forced his hand.
For the second single they released "Cry", which was an appalling choice IMO. Mike was so p!ssed he didn't even appear in the video. I was always confused about why Mike would use the same "change the world" at the end of "Cry" that he used at the end of "Man In The Mirror". Very strange.

The song "Butterflies" was doing very well on US urban radio and really should have been released as a single there, but Sony kept delaying the release and eventually cancelled it altogether. I presume that is because MJ wouldn't participate in any more promotion with them.

It's a shame that Mike's last studio album became such a mess and that his living career never made a comeback. One of the biggest disappoints for me is that Mike never got to start his "This Is It " shows and (obviously) never saw the outpouring of appreciation that followed his death in June. Despite what he had been through, he was still a massive draw and people still wanted to see him. A Megastar through to the end. RIP

[SeniorityFedup]

What a priceless thread for any musician or studio employee.

I always pictured people clapping after one of Michael Jackson's vocal takes. I'll be willing to bet he even danced while sang. I could feel it in the tracks.

By the one of my fav songs is dangerous! Man what a beat and vox!

[Stratech]

Hey guys, how much do you think the original 2 inch vocal slave reel of the song Dangerous is worth? It is spine tingling to hear Michael isolated on multiple tracks.

[in a blue field]

i'm sorry, i just had to laugh ironically at the fact that the title of the thread is "Post here if you worked on Michael Jackson's DANGEROUS album" and that it's at page 29

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Stratech

Hey guys, how much do you think the original 2 inch vocal slave reel of the song Dangerous is worth? It is spine tingling to hear Michael isolated on multiple tracks.

not worth the cost of the lawsuit that would come from the folks who thought they owned it.

[MJslostcousin]

In fact, there were occasions when the audio tracks didn't kick in for whatever reason and the difference was enormous.

That's prof that he Double-Tracked rather then Mimed along to the playback(at least for those songs on the History Tour). The difference being...

Double-Tracking is when your microphone is on and your singing along with the playback(weather your mike is turned up or down).

Miming(or Lip-Syncing) is when your mike is completely off and/or you don't sing at all but just move your lips to your pre-recorded/album vocals.

Now even when Michael mimed, it was always his own voice. Not somebody else's behind the curtain(like Millie Vanellie).

[Stratech]

About two years ago I bought around 5 reels of used 2" tape from a guy in LA. Guess what one of those reels was?

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by Stratech

About two years ago I bought around 5 reels of used 2" tape from a guy in LA. Guess what one of those reels was?

Dreamboat Annie by Heart?

[Multi-Monitors]

It's so refreshing to hear non-media stories from people who actually knew the man...some of this info I already knew because I'm a nerd for it, but MJs genius never gets old to me...When it comes to "true" original talent the guy was just on his own FN level period...there's not a person dead or living that could walk out on stage and compete with the charisma and energy of Michael Jackson...A true artist...I love the guy

[LeMauce]

Originally Posted by Stratech

About two years ago I bought around 5 reels of used 2" tape from a guy in LA. Guess what one of those reels was?

Well IF there's MJ voice on it then you and the seller are in big pile of sheit. Because you don't "own" what is on the tape. Only the tape is yours. Its like a dollar... the paper isn't yours, its owned by Gov. the "value" is owned by you by a loan from the Gov. The "owner" of MJ takes/voices production can sue you big time. Watch out what you doing.

[Casey Rain]

Hey guys.

In a recent eBay listing, the attached polaroid picture of Michael Jackson and Roger Troutman (of Zapp) was posted.

The seller states it was from the 'Smooth Criminal' recording session and it is clear that Roger is holding a guitar.

Now, in the 'Bad' album credits, Roger is thanked among a list of people who contributed to the album, but he isn't credited for anything in particular on any specific track.

I wonder if anyone could tell me whether the funky rhythm guitar breakdown towards the end of 'Smooth Criminal' is in fact Roger? It certainly sounds like his guitar playing to me.

This would be so awesome if someone could confirm this - and quite freaky to me because that part has always been my favorite part of the song, a long time before I even became a fan of Zapp/Roger.

[leucocrystal]

Firstly, thank you so much to everyone who has contributed to this amazing thread from the very start! I've been lurking on here for months, but now that I finally have something to ask, I figured I might as well join in.

I'm curious what opinions are out there - from anyone here really, not just the engineers - about the upcoming albums that are apparently in the works, at least one of which may be due out before the end of this year? (In reference to the massive deal the MJ estate just signed with Sony.) There have been rumblings that this may include a long-awaited release of the Bad tour on DVD as well, possibly in conjunction with the 25th anniversary of the album.

Mostly what I'm curious about is what the engineers here who worked with MJ in the past have to say about this? We know that Michael's back catalog must be quite massive, but only those who worked with him on his albums would have any idea of the overall quality. Several demos and cut tracks have leaked over the years, and sound tends to vary; some are obviously closer to having been finished than others. While I would personally love to hear anything new, I'm hoping they've got great people on hand working on these tracks, without compromising the original intent. Will the legendary Bruce Swedien be involved, for instance? Does anyone have any idea about this development yet, or is it too soon to say?

[Frisbieinstein]

Originally Posted by theblotted

reminds me of Bruce's post, when he said neither Quincy or Rod can drive to save their lives... what's with awesome musicians and terrible driving?

John Lennon couldn't drive at all. Yoko insisted that he try. He wrecked the car. They put it on a pedestal as an art object.

[HitzHits]

for this awesome thread.thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[DJP777]

There's an unreleased outtake from the Invincible sessions called "Can't Get Your Weight Off Of Me" recorded in 2000. Be it short, here is a tiny snippet:

YouTube - Outtake [2000]