Again on buss compression: how much?

[Gerax]

Hello

I was reading thru some posts about buss compression, so I was wondering how you folks deal with settings.
I'm mixing a band for a local promotion EP that will hopefully get mastered by my usual ME (you know...when money is a factor).

I mix with PT and sum oustide the box with a Dangerous D2BLT. I put an SSL GFX384 clone on my 2 buss, because I like the sound it gives to the mix and the infamous "glue effect". I try to stay light on compression, and usually my settings are 4dB reduction with the slowest atack and fastest release, threshold and makeup vary from song to song, but I tend to stay on a 3dB average reduction.

I tried to go with some havier compression, but it obviously sounded like it sucked the dynamics out of the songs (which are very dynamic and detailed).

How do you ususally set your 2 buss compression (for those who do it)?

L.G.

[Ngr]

Hello Lorenzo,
I usually use my buss compressor with a 1.5 ratio, attack at 30 or 10 ms, and fast release, HPF set at 130 or 90 Hz. no more that 2 dB of reduction.
Very light compression, just to tighten up things a bit.
Compressor is a modified Chamelon Labs 7720

[Ciozzi]

uh uhm... this must be an italian reunion, how can I not join it ?
I'd say it depends on the compressor. 2 to 3 dB can be just right when using API or SSL style buss compressors or not nearly enough with a classic limiter like an 1176 all-buttons-in.

You've probably found the sweet spot on your machine already, if you are in the need for something more aggressive you may wanna check out other compressors (distressors are GREAT for this)

Luca

[bulls hit]

Originally Posted by Ciozzi

2 to 3 dB can be just right when using API or SSL style buss compressors or not nearly enough with a classic limiter like an 1176 all-buttons-in.


Luca

I haven't tried all buttons in on the buss - good idea

[Red Mastering]

try infamous New York compression, or
use 2 or 3 compessors in line,
set first to just 'shave' 1-2 dB, peaks mostly, quite fast attack faster release, second with slow attack longer release, 2-3 dB GR,
you can play with 2 comps in line and add different sets then usualy with one only,
it's quite interesting experiment, you can achieve almost 'invisible' 4dB-6dB compression,
by the way, it's plenty time explored here, so check gearslutz....


good luck

[asagaai]

[QUOTE=tresperros;4342569]or
use 2 or 3 compessors in line,
set first to just 'shave' 1-2 dB, peaks mostly, quite fast attack faster release, second with slow attack longer release, 2-3 dB GR,
you can play with 2 comps in line and add different sets then usualy with one only,
it's quite interesting experiment, you can achieve almost 'invisible' 4dB-6dB compression,
....


I would also add, when coming out of the DAW through say a line sweetner, I have found if using a combo of comps in series the first comp after the line sweetner is critical to the vibe.

If the mix has not had much compression mixing I agree it can be cool to use a chain of 3 comps, if the mix is more compressed as a result of tracking and mix compression, I have found you can cut back on mix compression and I generally use 2 lightly for colour and edge.

If the mix is very dynamic and not controlled, I tend to have the first comp as the "shaver" of 2/3 db of peaks only, and use the first with some edgy transformer make up gain for edge.

Then into a smooth opto that is gentle and smoothing and good for about 4 db that is pretty invisible.

Finally into a comp like a vca that has transformers and gives a very wide stereo field with a transformery sheen -then into DAW.


Critical for me to mix into the chain of line compressors.

Enjoy

GJ
Newcastle/OZ

[dhiltonlittle]

with the ssl you have i usually set it to 2.1 or 4.1. the attack usually 10 or 30. release varies with the track as does the gr.

[Andreas G]

Lately I put the SSL at the end of the mix on the stereo bus, just for a bit of glue. I often ended with an attack of 1 or 3 ms, ratio mostly 2, release I start from the fastest setting to the point where there is no more harmonic distorsion in the lowend, mostly 0.6sec or auto. Gainreduction around 2-4dB.

[Musiclab]

I mix on an analog console, the ratio is pretty much always 2:1, the release is usually on auto, the one thing I fool with a lot is the attack. I mix with the compressor on from the beginning. If it's a hot mix generally the meter will be dancing around 4db which is a a lot of bus compression. Since most of what I do gets mastered I don't really want to do more than that.

[John Eppstein]

None - leave that to the ME.

[Dean Roddey]

He is the mix engineer. He said he was mixing something.

[RCM - Ronan]

Really depends on the compressor. My Manley Vari Mu gets unhappy if I am doing more than 2 dB of gain reduction. My Signal Audio GainRider will do 10dB without much trouble.

The mix I am printing down right now while I kill time on Gearslutz is getting about 4.5 dB of reduction.

[engmix]

Originally Posted by rcm

Really depends on the compressor. My Manley Vari Mu gets unhappy if I am doing more than 2 dB of gain reduction.

i think those vari-mu meters are a little slow. i notice on mine, 2 dB of gain reduction sounds more like 3 or 4 dB. bloody good box though!

[username]

If it sounds good, it is good!..

Personally I rarely find the shortest attack times useful, except when I want to have something feel very compressed.. I end up on auto release more often than not.. often the release after a large hit comes in helps to make it feel like there is a lot more dynamic range left then there actually is..

[Ciozzi]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

None - leave that to the ME.

Yeah and since you're there, throw your master buss compressor away or give it to John...you don't have the authority to use it!!!! BAD BOY!!!

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

None - leave that to the ME.

especially if you like your mix to change, which if it needs to be hit hard it will

[Dean Roddey]

Oh, duh. I read 'mixing engineer' when he said ME, but he meant 'mastering engineer'. Sorry. Oh the difference one word makes.

Anyway, I think it's been pretty fairly settled at this point that it's long been common to use a glue compressor on the mix bus, and that it's probably even more common now. It's been discussed many times, and not very many people seem to take the purist view on that, that I've seen. Doesn't mean you have to over do it of course.

[robot gigante]

Meters just barely twitching is usually enough for me, or no compression at all. It makes a pretty noticeable difference to my ears even when it's just half a db on the meters, no matter if it's a Vari-Mu, a Smart C2, or whatever. Not often that I compress the master bus with the Zener, but with it I don't end up with the meters even moving, it's compressing plenty before they start to.

Occasionally I'll hit things harder but then I feel like I have to EQ the back end too much because the compressor is sucking too much out (esp. the low end), no matter what compressor I end up using. HPF in the sidechain helps, but even so.

I mix into the compressor if I use one.

I don't agree with waiting for the the ME to do it, I'd rather compress myself and have him compress it only if it actually helps the mix. Brickwall limiting or clipping is the ME's realm for sure of course though.

[AllAboutTone]

Do not want to get off topic or high jack the thread but also did not want to start a new one either over a single question. So here it is......
Is it ok the peg the input of the API 2500 ? I mean we all know the 3124 and 512 pre love when its driven in the red on certain things. Seems like I get more harmonic distortion pushing the input on the 2500 way over the edge.

[u2bonoman]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

None - leave that to the ME.

I would NEVER leave such things for a ME.

[R3altruth]

Originally Posted by Ngr

Hello Lorenzo,
I usually use my buss compressor with a 1.5 ratio, attack at 30 or 10 ms, and fast release, HPF set at 130 or 90 Hz. no more that 2 dB of reduction.
Very light compression, just to tighten up things a bit.
Compressor is a modified Chamelon Labs 7720

What type of music do you make that you run a HPF at 90-130Hz on the 2 buss??? That doesn't kill your kicks????

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by R3altruth

What type of music do you make that you run a HPF at 90-130Hz on the 2 buss??? That doesn't kill your kicks????

He's talking about side-chain filtering so the low end doesn't get the comp chomping away.

It actually let's the kicks/bass breathe.

R.

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

None - leave that to the ME.

Leave it to the ME? Why would I want to do THAT? I want it to sound like I what it to sound--NOW. I'm not the kind of person who says, "Then when it's mastered it'll sound more like a record..." Trust your ears guys! I looked down at a stereo buss comp and it was kickin' 10-12dB. I turned to the producer and said, "Did you notice the Smart?" His reply: "I know! But it sounds incredible!" Leave it to the ME? No, leave it to me. The only time I'll leave it to the ME is if there's nothing good around that sounds good available to use.

[suedesound]

On the SSL quad comp (4000) I usually do slowest attack (30ms), auto release, 2-4 dB reduction. I've seen people mix with it bouncing around 8dB reduction and it still sounded ok, not my style though.

When I throw the fatso on though it's more (meter-wise) reduction because those meters are way faster.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by bulls hit

I haven't tried all buttons in on the buss - good idea

Gotta try this myself. Hmmm gotta find a song with a lot of percussion...

[doug hazelrigg]

There's BIG a difference between mixing INTO some bus compression and just slapping some compression on a finished mix. The former is for the mix engineer to work out; the latter is ideally for the mastering engineering to work out (if called for)

[suedesound]

There's BIG a difference between mixing INTO some bus compression and just slapping some compression on a finished mix. The former is for the mix engineer to work out; the latter is ideally for the mastering engineering to work out (if called for)

Very true, I always mix into the comp if I'm going to use it.

[Ngr]

Originally Posted by R3altruth

What type of music do you make that you run a HPF at 90-130Hz on the 2 buss??? That doesn't kill your kicks????

It's the opposite indeed...
I am talking about an HPF built into the compressor so that if I set HPF at 90 Hz, that means that all the frequencies below 90 Hz DO NOT get compressed!

[engmix]

Generally I would say yes, drive the input hard, or drive the output hard, or find the middle ground. They all work on the right record.

I used to mix on an old api quite often. I once taped up the 2bus VU meters for fun one day. At the end of the mix i pulled the tape. The needles were pegged. Sounded like Godzilla was coming through the monitors. It was a real eye opener, no pun intended.

It's not heroin, its audio, so you can't do to much, and you can always back it off if it starts peeling the paint off of the walls in your room.

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

Do not want to get off topic or high jack the thread but also did not want to start a new one either over a single question. So here it is......
Is it ok the peg the input of the API 2500 ? I mean we all know the 3124 and 512 pre love when its driven in the red on certain things. Seems like I get more harmonic distortion pushing the input on the 2500 way over the edge.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by tekis

Leave it to the ME? Why would I want to do THAT? I want it to sound like I what it to sound--NOW. I'm not the kind of person who says, "Then when it's mastered it'll sound more like a record..." Trust your ears guys! I looked down at a stereo buss comp and it was kickin' 10-12dB. I turned to the producer and said, "Did you notice the Smart?" His reply: "I know! But it sounds incredible!" Leave it to the ME? No, leave it to me. The only time I'll leave it to the ME is if there's nothing good around that sounds good available to use.

I likes this guys.

War