Fender champ speaker replacement suggestions

[Manny Grossman]

I have 2 little Fender amps, an old vibrochamp and an old musicmaster bass. Both are just the shit for guitars. However, when turned up to 10, which is generally where I like to run them, the speakers rattle and something seems to vibrate in there. Both have 8 inch speakers. Are there any current production replacement speakers which would sound good in these amps. The champ is 6 watts and the musicmaster is 8 watts. Thanks!!!!!!!!

[mdbeh]

There are a lot of things in a guitar cab that can rattle; I wouldn't be sure it's the speaker. You can try pressing things with a chopstick while the amp is playing to find the culprit.

A lot of the sound of little Fenders comes from having a fairly low-rated speaker getting pushed hard. You can replace it with a higher-rated speaker, and it will be cleaner, but it won't be the same sound.

[Gone Fission]

If you do need a replacement speaker, I would check out WeberVST. They have some budget models in the $30 range that are supposed to be pretty nice, as well as a great variety of vintage clone and modern designs. The discussion board they run can be helpful, as is the user review section (no punches pulled), and Ted Weber is great at responding to email.

Bear

[Saucyjack]

Ditto
Weber,Weber,weber

[imacgreg]

Instead of replacing the speaker, I would run the amp into a 4x12 cabinet instead. You'll get a different sound, but it might help with the rattle. Whenever I use the a little tweed fender at work (that sounds similar to what you've got) I put it through a Marshall 4x12 and it kicks ass.

Ian

[Drumsound]

Fender offers a vintage Champ replacement speaker. I’ve got one here that should get installed into a Vibro-champ this weekend. I'll try to report back.

[Jay Kahrs]

Yeah, Weber is the way to go. Or a small, low wattage Celestion. Actually any low wattage Alnico magnet speaker would be great. Or, run it into a 2x12 cab. I did a whole record with a Princeton and a 2x12 with Vintage 30's, sounds killer. But before you replace the speaker make sure the old one isn't just loose or it isn't something else shaking and making noise.

[atticus]

I have a Kendrick 8" in a Vibrochamp. It cost me about $50 and is a great little speaker.

[preben]

for my princeton (I know it's a 10" jobbie but still) I have nice results with Jensen's replacements speakers. Ceramics AND Alnico, but if I had to choose I'd go with the Alnico - unless you've got for instance a AC30 with Alnico's in which case the ceramic speaker will give you a bit more variation.

[Manny Grossman]

How exactly would I run it thru a 4x12. DOes this mean rewiring the speaker cable? I would like to try to avoid that if I can. Are there any guerilla ways to do it without rewiring. Thanks!!!

[atticus]

I think that the speaker jack on a Champ is an RCA. All you would need is a cable that connects from RCA to 1/4 inch. <ake sure the 4x12 is the proper impedance and you're good to go. Another small amp that is cool through a big cab is one of those Smokey amps.

[Manny Grossman]

You are right. Funny I never looked to see. Thanks!!

[jajjguy]

You've probably already covered this, but rattling can sometimes just mean that the screws holding the speaker against the baffle are loose. This happened to me recently. Tightening them fixed it.

[Manny Grossman]

Tightening was the first thing I did, so that wasn't the problem. I have to tryrunning it to a 4x12. That sounds interesting. Thanks!

[writethis]

It's really easy to pull the chasis and replace the RCA speaker out with a 1/4" jack. I also did this with the trem switch input on my VibroChamp, so I can use the same dedicated switch on my pedalboard for trem switching on the little Fender or other amps. An adaptor will work, but having a 1/4" strikes me as a much more solid way to go.

If you drive a separate cab, know that Champs and VibroChamps are happiest when presented with a 4 ohm load.

And another vote for Weber speakers, webervst.com.

I like their P8Q, but I'm strongly partial to Alnico in pickups and speakers alike.

[Sir Bob]

Don't run your Champ to 10. I run mine at about three or four and get extremely aggressive sound.

[writethis]

Huh?

[Sir Bob]

Originally posted by writethis
Huh?

My '62 Tweed Fender Champ is class "A" which means that it has a single power-tube. This tube is taking power constantly as opposed to most other Fender amps in which power alternates between two tubes (Class "A/B").

This Class "A" feature of the Champ makes it a very aggressive sound. Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top has used a Champ, especially on early stuff. Eric Clapton reportedly used a Champ on the Layla sessions.

In my experience, I have had great results recording with it using a gain pedal but not really cranking it up past 12 o'clock.

I once burned out my speaker and found a vintage replacement at Cold Springs Electrical Works in Mass. 413-323-8869, a good source for vintage speakers and NOS tubes. Weber is also a good place to find a modern replacement.

[writethis]

Ahh...tweed. Now your answer makes sense. I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that we were talking about a later version with a tone stack. My 70s VibroChamp is my personal frame of reference, so that's where I was coming from.

Of course, they're single-ended Class A as well, but tend to break up much later than their tweed brethren.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Gone Fission]

Yeah, the second gain stage an a blackface or silverface Fender ends up being largely makeup gain for the loss from the tone stack. Tweeds have the eq later, so they can be much more gain-ey. You could try bypassing the tone stack or finding a tone stack with less loss to get more gain out of the sf or bf, but I haven't tried it.

Bear

[Jay Kahrs]

What the hell is a tone stack? I'm guessing something to do with the caps in the tone control circuit?

[Gone Fission]

Exactly, Jay. The tone controls in pretty much every guitar amp are an array of passive R/C filters (resistor/capacitor), kind of like a cheap and simple version of what the Pultec filter section is (no inductors, though). The more shaping power the tone section has, the more potential for loss their typically is. So, like a Pultec, you have the need for makeup gain.

BTW, the one active tone control you are likely to see on most amps is a Presence control, which taps off the negative feed back loop around the power stage and limits the amount of highs being controlled by the loop, meaning that you get those highs back in the signal, rather undamped and lively. Since the negative feedback loop provides correction for distortions introduced into the signal by the power section (at least in theory), a sound with presence in is likely to have more of a "gainy" tone to it.

Bear