New Sheryl Crow tune, or is it auto-tune?

[Sounds Great]

Just heard a new Crow single on the radio. Not a fan, but she always sounded ok, pretty good production. But is it my imagination, or does she have auto-tune all over her voice on this new one? Instead of changing notes, it sounds like she is "switching" notes to me.

[Jose Mrochek]

I love her voice.. auto tuned or not, It doesn't matter to me.

[84K]

Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek

I love her voice.. auto tuned or not, It doesn't matter to me.

[kevinc]

ughhhh.... I dunno guys.

Obvious auto tune can be a real turnoff even if you dig the singer.

I`ll have to hear this one and see though.

[Toad]

Originally Posted by kevinc

ughhhh.... I dunno guys.

Obvious auto tune can be a real turnoff even if you dig the singer.

I`ll have to hear this one and see though.

[84K]

My initial were (and still are) regarding Sheryl Crow as an artist and singer....

Blatant Autotune IS a real turnoff... Vibe killer.... Never noticed it being abused on a Sheryl Crow song... I will keep that in mind when I hear this new one.... what is it called?

[Ruudman]

A comment in a language that my daughter understands:

Autotiiuuuune is sooooooouuuu baoooooorrrin'

(with the exeption av minor fixes that saves the session)

ruudman

[doorknocker]

Great subjects for the tabloids:

Did Lance Armstrong really achieve all his Tour de France victories without any chemical 'help'?

Does Sheryl Crow cheat by using AutoTune?

Read all about it in the sunday papers....

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[bunnerabb]

Face it.

If Nelson Riddle and Old Blue Eyes came back from the dead for one more side, they'd be BD'd and Auto'd into Goo unless they materialised in Sear Sound's lobby.

For that matter, who'd sign them?

Does anybody give a shit about the ubiquity of completely manufactured performance, now?

I believe that great pop records are assembled, but from handcrafted parts.

Not LEGOs

YMMV.

[Ruudman]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

Face it...
..Does anybody give a shit about the ubiquity of completely manufactured performance, now?
YMMV.

Yes. I do. It will eventually suck the life out of commercially available music.
Real emotions will be played and sung in the catacombs...


ruudman

[bunnerabb]

The anybody that my post referred to were the consumers.

Sadly.

[TedF]

Why is everyone so 'up in arms' about 'autotune'? Is it more of an effect and more destructive than say a compressor or an equaliser?

I get the feeling that it's cool to sneer at autotune, while at the same time we all 'accidentally' have it engaged..... let's face up to it, it can enhance a good performance if used carefully; and I defy anyone to spot it when used by a competent engineer (and he doesn't want it heard!)

As with all effects, it's simple to get it wrong (Aphex!) and not so easy to get the best out of it.... But as for Sinatra, his phrasing was immaculate, but some of his pitching was just a little suspect... so maybe even Walter (Sears) would have been happy to touch the voice with just a hint of autotune!

[doorknocker]

I don't hate Auto-Tune per se but rather the mentality it seems to bring out:
'Pitch' being reduced to a computer-like on/off thing. Naturally a big reason is that a lot of singers today just don't cut it, being a star or in some ridiculous 'reality' TV show seems to be more important than the ART of singing and music-making.

IMO, there is a kind of 'circle' around a note where you can be slightly higher or lower than the 'perfect center'. If you go further out, it will be considered out-of-tune. Vibrato/Melismatisms come into play.

A great musician can play with this 'circle' to create tension.

Naturally this depends on the style and setting and once you REALLY start to think about it you end up discusssing things like 'equal-tempered' scales against 'natural' ones,etc

Naturally this is formed by your listening habit and if your diet is AutoTuned radio pop then most likely most music from say Frank Sinatra will sound out of tune to
you.

Listen to the great ones: Miles, Coltrane, the Indian masters, B.B King, Sinatra, etc and realize that they all had their own approach to pitch. That's why you recognize Miles Davis within one note. I'm sure his stuff will be considered 'out-of-tune' when put under the Auto-Tune microscope.

The quest to have everything 'in tune' and 'in time' leads to a most saddening state: BOREDOM. SQUARENESS.

Hearing some older stuff these days very often gives me the feeling of 'non-restraint'. Getting out of that stupid straighjacket so-called 'perfection' .

And where is plain old PRIDE in this? If I were a singer, I would most certainly aspire to hit and reach my own notes.

How can younger artists progress when they are 'made perfect' from the beginning with no room given to improve?

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[TedF]

Andi is so very right.....

Sinatra's use of intonation as a part of phrasing was usually breathtaking, but even he wasn't perfect all the time.

Andi touches on another problem area... tempo and timing; to my mind 'perfect' computer controlled tempo is much more dangerous and stupifying than the occasional pitch correction where the rest of the take was OK.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by TedF

Sinatra's use of intonation as a part of phrasing was usually breathtaking, but even he wasn't perfect all the time.

Andi touches on another problem area... tempo and timing; to my mind 'perfect' computer controlled tempo is much more dangerous and stupifying than the occasional pitch correction where the rest of the take was OK.

I agree and I sure won't refrain from using AutoTune as a 'last resort' for emergencies.
The problem to me is rather WHY do we want to make everything smooth and 'perfect'? And if you reflect upon this you start to doubt that people really CHOOSE to do it. Isn't it more like: That's 'the ticket' these days, I want that 'radio sound', being 'up to date' etc. I guess the mainstream Nashville scene is the perfect example and it's especially sad there because Nashville's full of great musician who COULD very well keep their own time and their own pitch.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[djwayne]

So what's the difference between a singer who uses a touch of auto-tune and a guitar player who punch's in a missed note to polish up his studio performance ????? Aren't satudio recordings supposed to be polished ???

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by djwayne

So what's the difference between a singer who uses a touch of auto-tune and a guitar player who punch's in a missed note to polish up his studio performance ????? Aren't satudio recordings supposed to be polished ???

Big difference. Punch ins are still recorded performances by the artist. Auto-tune changes the performance.

And no, eq and compression have nothing in common with auto tune. Vibrato and note changes by the singer are part of the performance and artistry. Auto-tune changes these things dramatically.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by 84K

Never noticed it being abused on a Sheryl Crow song... I will keep that in mind when I hear this new one.... what is it called?

Yeah, I never noticed her using it before. And I like her voice and *some* of her songs.



The song is 'Good is Good'.

Here you go, decide for yourself:

http://www.sherylcrow.com/news.asp?newsID=16652

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by TedF

Why is everyone so 'up in arms' about 'autotune'? Is it more of an effect and more destructive than say a compressor or an equaliser?

I don't necessarily hate Auto-Tune. I think it can be a great tool. What I hate, and what most people probably hate, is the misuse/abuse of Auto-Tune. A lot of vocals on the radio are tuned so hard, it sounds un-natural. Pitch variances are part of the music, especially with BGV's. If you record 3 part BGV's, then double them, then tune them and VocAlign them. What's the point of doubling them in the first place? I am tired of hearing pitches "stepping", like the original poster mentioned. There is no reason for that. Auto-Tune can sound natural. If it doesn't, it's operator error.

Comparing Auto-Tune to compression, there is at least as much music that has been ruined by misuse of compression and limiting.

What i'm saying is, it's not the tools that are the problem, it's the implementation of those tools.

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by TedF

..... let's face up to it, it can enhance a good performance if used carefully; and I defy anyone to spot it when used by a competent engineer (and he doesn't want it heard!)

TedF, I didn't even read the rest of your post before posting. Looks like we are on the same page. Right on!

Oftentimes, I get the impression that some of these people who are tuning vocals on a lot of the major releases don't even understand music. If they did, their tuned vocals wouldn't sound the way they do.

[kevinc]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Listen to the great ones: Miles, Coltrane, the Indian masters, B.B King, Sinatra, etc and realize that they all had their own approach to pitch. That's why you recognize Miles Davis within one note. I'm sure his stuff will be considered 'out-of-tune' when put under the Auto-Tune microscope.


www.doorknocker.ch

Not to mention Ray Charles and practically anybody who was good at singing the Blues in the 30`s to 60`s or so.

You`d have to be an idiot to think autotune has a place with performances like that.

The notes streteching into the pitch are half the effect these guys were going for INTENTIONALLY.

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Big difference. Punch ins are still recorded performances by the artist. Auto-tune changes the performance.

And no, eq and compression have nothing in common with auto tune. Vibrato and note changes by the singer are part of the performance and artistry. Auto-tune changes these things dramatically.

Yes, and Robert Plant sings in a cave.

[Kenny Gioia]

I don't see what the big deal.

Are we suddenly afraid that people are so dumb that they will confuse talent for being in tune?

Does anyone really confuse Ashlee Simpson for Janis Joplin although her pitch is better?

Let's not think that we as engineers can hear the difference but the public can't.

[bunnerabb]

Let's not think that we as engineers can hear the difference but the public can't.

I'm down here in the trenches and, I must say:

I am beginning to think exactly that.

[bunnerabb]

Yes, and Robert Plant sings in a cave.

How do you manage any sleep?

[joeq]

no, I hate auto-tune more than you hate auto tune

back to the original question. who has heard the song? who thinks there is auto-tune on it? Enquiring minds want to know....

I just went to iTunes and got it- to spend a buck and satisfy my curisiosity. I never claimed to be one of those people who can "spot" auto-tune a mile away, but I have to agree with Sounds Great, it sounds a bit suspect in spots. "switching" to the note is a good description. I would almost say "leaping".

Perhaps we have someone on this board who knows for sure or who knows the guy who knows the guy.


I have always considered Sheryl Crow one of those singers who skillfully worked with the pitch for tension and release.

"All I Wanna Do" for example has pitch like a drunken unicylclist on the high wire. But she never falls off.

I think she is a great singer and her early career as a backup singer is an even better "credential" in terms of being someone able to hit the pitches she wants to hit.

Very odd.

[Fajita]

it's melodyne, not autotune...

[Sounds Great]

Does anyone think she needs auto-tune? So why use it?

[glitch]

Just heard it today - definitely a little weird on the vocal sound. I think comp'd (pitches at a time), and a couple of the higher parts on the first and last choruses sound AT'd like crazy. I think each pitch change in certain phrases were on their own tracks, then comp'd.

[CorkyTart]

My friend heard an unmixed Crow session a few years ago and just mentioned that her voice sounded like a sack of sick cats. Didnt ask for details but given that I heard her 'sing' on Stern a few days prior, I didnt think I needed to ask.

Id like to bang this broad auto tune or no auto tune. I'd especially like to bang her but make her stare at a picture of Limbaugh just to add to the humility.