New Sheryl Crow tune, or is it auto-tune?

[xtranscendedx]

for me it's not a "sound" issue it's peopel who can't sing or play in time and there are tools that can fix that for them and thats not right.You are being a FAKE!!

[joeq]

Originally Posted by xtranscendedx

for me it's not a "sound" issue it's peopel who can't sing or play in time and there are tools that can fix that for them and thats not right.You are being a FAKE!!

ahh! well here we go...

so what if the song sounded GREAT to you, and it was a GREAT tune and lyrics that had real meaning to you, you loved it and all that, but there was auto-tune and beat detective on it and it was applied so skillfully that you _could _not _tell?

So you listen and enjoy the song for a year and then later you learn that these tools were used to create this song that actually meant something to you. Do you stop liking the song?

just wondering...

[djwayne]

Fake eh ??, Wasn't Frank Sinatra in the mob ?? Isn't that everybody was saying while in his hey day .....

I'll take somebody who uses auto-tune over a gangsta anyday.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by joeq

ahh! well here we go...

so what if the song sounded GREAT to you, and it was a GREAT tune and lyrics that had real meaning to you, you loved it and all that, but there was auto-tune and beat detective on it and it was applied so skillfully that you _could _not _tell?

So you listen and enjoy the song for a year and then later you learn that these tools were used to create this song that actually meant something to you. Do you stop liking the song?

just wondering...

yeah, that's like all those people who wanted to return their Milli Vanilli records when they learned that Rob and Fab didn't sing; the MUSIC didn't change.

[popmann]

Id like to bang this broad auto tune or no auto tune. I'd especially like to bang her but make her stare at a picture of Limbaugh just to add to the humility.

I like the implication that there's something inheirently humiliating about sex with you...and that the picture would only ADD to it...

[jindrich]

i only think that Mili Vanili should get their Grammys back, ASAP.

neither Ms. Aguilera Simpson Spears and colleagues sung. the engineers made it happen. btw, they use also playback live. what's the difference?

fortunately we'll always have the Crazy Frog.

[slipperman]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The important thing to understand about AutoTune is that it screws up the timing of the vocal and that really can ruin the "feel" of a performance.

How so Bob... And how MUCH?

I believe ya... I've just never really noticed it(timing per say).

I'll say this...

Without AT a whole lotta stuff we do here wouldn't make it past A&R approval.

Ditto for BD.

And VA.

And sample replacement...

and copy and paste everything and it's brother...

and automated de-essing...

and...

You friggin' NAME IT.

I use everything I can get my hands on like a madman.

Regular robot factory here.

HOHOHO.

Kidding.













Sorta.

SM.

[eligit]

i'll admit that i've never actually owned a recording of many (or any for that matter) of these pop singers but i did hear a pretty amazing clip of christina aguilera (spelling??) singing when she was a little girl. she could actually sing. good timing and in tune. so she may be an exception even if her image is that of a porn star....

[Micgiver]

Originally Posted by djwayne

oh baloney.......you guys have been trashing anybody who doesn't fall in to your clique. bad mouthing an artist or a product seems to be the norm here on gearslutz....geez even the name gearslutz is making me cringe.......

its because your from Ohio........
no offense

[bunnerabb]

I'm from Ohio.

[djwayne]

Originally Posted by Micgiver

its because your from Ohio........
no offense

Don't blame me, I voted for Joe Walsh.

[Sounds Great]

I was surpised by this population in Ohio, much bigger than I expected.

Not as bad as Florida, though.


http://www.mapsexoffenders.com/

[JPF]

it seems like AT is a fact of life on the radio etc. much like L3's and LOUD mixes..which doesn't mean i like or agree with..i think unless you are going for an effect ala cher and you hear the AT somethings wrong..there are some great rants on it's mis-usage (check joshua radin's myspace,his vocals sound pretty damn in tune )<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td><table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="70%">
</td> <td width="30%">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td>

http://www.myspace.com/joshuaradin

</td></tr></tbody></table> that all being said would love feedback on this song's vox!engineer friend "Nashvilled" me and now i'm all paranoid!!lol cheers
http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=117213

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by TedF

Why is everyone so 'up in arms' about 'autotune'? Is it more of an effect and more destructive than say a compressor or an equaliser?

Depends on how it's used.

Sometimes it's used to make someone who's not a singer "sing-talk" in tune.

But OTOH, sometimes it's used on a great singer when the performance is worth tuning a word or so.

Auto-tune can't give someone a nice, resonant, musical voice. It only affects pitch.

I'm pretty sure there's no auto-tune on Patti Page.

[lynyrd]

I haven't heard the song in question yet but assuming Auto-tune or Melodyne was used with a heavy hand all over the song does anyone think that perhaps the intention was for it to be noticeable like say, a flanger on a guitar track? Maybe it wasn't meant to be a fixer-upper this time.

[DeathMonkey]

Originally Posted by djwayne

It's the producer/mixer's job to make whatever artist he is working with, to sound as good as possible, with whatever tools he has available.

Yup. And that sometimes means leaving a vocal alone (Bob Dylan, Neil Young) and sometimes making it "perfect" (Ashlee Simpson, Avril Levigne). But you can use autotune as an effect ( the vocoder-esque Cher technique) or make it transparent, but honestly, if we are sitting here talking about it, the producer screwed up. I don't care if they use it, but I don't want to hear it unless it is for an effect to help the song. Too many vocals today are so synthetic the emotional content ( which IS the point, right?) is gone. Might as well use robots or computer generated voices.

The difference between a good voice and a great one is not pitch - it is, and always will be, musicianship.

[KungFuLio]

methinks AT on the last few albums. Listen to "tuesday night music club" then listen to the last few albums. There's room for improvement but i'm just sayin'...

If it really bothers you (and it usually does bother me) don't buy the album. Unfortunately, if all us engineers quit buying albums, that would be an insignificant dent in the sales of CD's. Deals like the apple/emi deal will kill more artists careers anyway...

[sneezebomb]

Auto-tune is the sort of invention that ranks along side the atomic bomb and the meat-fueled robot... a testimony to the ingenuity of human beings that ultimately reduces the quality of society and threatens the vitality of life on a global scale.

True, if the master engineer utilizes this tool with subtlety and deftness, i am none the wiser and will judge the tune on its other more obvious merits. But with greater and greater frequency i am not permitted to participate in that sort of blissful ignorance. AT hits me like an AK every time i walk into a record shop or department store or what have you...and my ears are not likely to be traded on the gold standard anytime soon.

It's like a chef who inundates his dish with horseradish sauce in an attempt to mask the fact that the meat has gone rotten - in the short run we can swallow it but in the end will cause us to schit ourselves to death.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by sneezebomb

Auto-tune is the sort of invention that ranks along side the atomic bomb and the meat-fueled robot... a testimony to the ingenuity of human beings that ultimately reduces the quality of society and threatens the vitality of life on a global scale.

True, if the master engineer utilizes this tool with subtlety and deftness, i am none the wiser and will judge the tune on its other more obvious merits. But with greater and greater frequency i am not permitted to participate in that sort of blissful ignorance. AT hits me like an AK every time i walk into a record shop or department store or what have you...and my ears are not likely to be traded on the gold standard anytime soon.

It's like a chef who inundates his dish with horseradish sauce in an attempt to mask the fact that the meat has gone rotten - in the short run we can swallow it but in the end will cause us to schit ourselves to death.

That was you positive post, right?

[chrisgraff]

I heard a S.C. demo a few years ago. Tracking vocal, no fixes, no autotune and it was f***ing stellar.

Why someone would want to put autotune on her voice is beyond me.

[ToddF]

Originally Posted by chrisgraff

I heard a S.C. demo a few years ago. Tracking vocal, no fixes, no autotune and it was f***ing stellar.

Why someone would want to put autotune on her voice is beyond me.

I was 2nd engineer for all the tracking of Sheryl tracking a song beginning to end and I thought she sang great. It was a cover of Keep On Growing by Derek & the Dominos. Boys on the Side movie soundtrack.

She nailed the whole song in a matter of a few takes and the same with harmonies. She also was killer on the wurly.

The only thing I can think with the Autotune madness is someone in the process thinks it sells records to have the artificial note change sound.

Peace, Todd

[big country]

Detours should be a good album

[chrispick]

Originally Posted by DeathMonkey

Might as well use robots or computer generated voices.

I'm for this.

[toledo3]

Autotune is handy to have... certainly, people have been manipulating pitch of vocals in all kind of ways before autotune came around. It was just more tedious.

One of the great things about the technology that was available in the early era of rock was that it was more common that a great deal of the song was recorded by the players actually playing at the same time! There was less opportunity to mash out the feeling of capturing a moment in time.

I am a fan of the fabricated reality approach to recording. I am also a fan of recordings that shoot for the sound of capturing a real performance.... The current default style of modern recordings tend to make tracks that don't really sound like they ever happened. When I turn on the modern pop, rock or rap stations, the music is just ALL ON all the time, no peaks and valleys.

Some of the masters of highly produced stuff seem to make sure that their productions retain a feeling of forward motion... the feeling that each part of the song is pushing forward to the next. The more you erase the human elements, the harder it is to achieve that.

I am definitely not bagging on highly tweaked stuff, because I love it, I am just saying that there needs to be some yin to the yang.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

Great subjects for the tabloids:

Did Lance Armstrong really achieve all his Tour de France victories without any chemical 'help'?
...[snip]

Well, unlike cheating at sports, fixing up less-than-perfect pop performances is someplace where I take the attitude that what I don't know probably won't hurt me.

That said, obvious AT or any other obvious fix is a real turn off for me.

And that said, I've never been much turned on by Cheryl Crow's singing. She ain't no Betty Carter.

[JPF]

i find the offensive "Perfect Vox Stacks" really prevalent in the Mouseshwitz (Disney radio ) type stuff and also all new country which doesn't seem to be either lol...don't think George Martin ever had to use it.. and for me it takes as long to draw it in graphically as an insert/plug -in, then "Process" it from AT in audio suite,then paste it, cross fade it etc. as just recording it until they hit the note..although i did like the cher vo-coder-robot w/trailer trash stamps so WTF do i know?i dig a pony

http://www.myspace/jpfitting

[joelpatterson]

You're going to have to count me as one of these people who looks too closely at Sherl Crow and sees pretty much almost you'd have to say ugly. Oops, did it again.

[Clayphish]

I saw her live a number of years ago. All I can say is she's a horrible singer. You know the kind where there is a major lack of control and tone.

just my 2 cents. e

[Arkitecht]

I listened to the song, it's called "Shine Over Babylon." For those interested, you can hear it on the frontpage of her site: SHERYL CROW | SHINE OVER BABYLON.

I can hear some AT in places, most noticeably in portions of the verse. I believe the "note changes" you talked of is cut and paste editing by the producer, it didn't sound like that portion was altered by Autotune. To achieve that effect-- then again, I may be wrong.

Also, just to chime in on what's being said about AT. It has saved hours and hours in production time and cost, especially for bg vox. And Slipperman is right, A&R want Autotune on the vox. If you want to get paid, you do what they flapping mouthed AR reps say. Or ignore them like Mutt Lange did, and sell half a billion records.

Take care,
A

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Arkitecht

Also, just to chime in on what's being said about AT. It has saved hours and hours in production time and cost, especially for bg vox.

Exactly.

Just think of how many more works of art the world would have been blessed with had Picasso been supplied with a paint sprayer.